Can EVs really long distance trips conveniently?
Discussion
Am a self declared EV fanatic, having tried a Leaf in 2015 and not looked back since. However a recent work trip done by my wife has made me wonder how EVs will ever be as convenient as current combustion cars for long distance trips.
The scenario:
• Work meeting 120 miles away Sunday evening at a city center hotel - no chance of charging overnight.
• Next day another work meeting plus formal dinner finishing at near midnight near our home – 120 miles.
• Next day another meeting 120 miles away starting at 9am so she left by 530am given the state of rush hour traffic - not enough time to fully recharge the car.
• Home following day – 120miles, took over 4 hrs due to road works/closures.
In total that nearly 500 miles driving, and after road works/diversions/traffic nearly 10hr+ spent in the car over just a few days.
Whilst this trip would been possible in our EV it would have involved charging stops, increased journey times for already long trip, and given the temp was no higher than 5degrees there would have been plenty of need to watch charge status/speed.
Whilst in her Lexus hybrid I put in a full tank of fuel on Sunday and 500 miles later of M-way driving in cold/rain, the car is still reporting over 100 miles of range left. No need to worry about stopping/slowing down/finding charging at the destination or long trips. So I wonder if EVs could ever be as convenient?
So I thought I try and see if it would have been possible to do such a trip in our planned EV to replace the Lexus, and how much more faff it would be. There is a very good website I always use to plan trips in our EV and its charge/range predictions are almost 100% accurate in the real world.
I put in the same journey profile, and selected the car we plan on getting to replace the Lexus – Performance Model 3……..and to my surprise even with just the existing Tesla SC network and no attempt at destination charging the total charging time added would only be 50 minutes our of a 9hr driving time!!
It seems even for the 1% of crazy long distance drives we still occasionally do, a long range Model 3 (or even a 100D S) would be nearly as convenient as the combustion car. Add in some more SC points and/or destination charging than it would be no issues at all.
So in answer to my own question, YES, EVs are nearly as convenient as combustion cars even on long distance trips with no destination charging. Now we just need a Model 3 + the need to do such a trip again to put theory into practice
https://abetterrouteplanner.com
The scenario:
• Work meeting 120 miles away Sunday evening at a city center hotel - no chance of charging overnight.
• Next day another work meeting plus formal dinner finishing at near midnight near our home – 120 miles.
• Next day another meeting 120 miles away starting at 9am so she left by 530am given the state of rush hour traffic - not enough time to fully recharge the car.
• Home following day – 120miles, took over 4 hrs due to road works/closures.
In total that nearly 500 miles driving, and after road works/diversions/traffic nearly 10hr+ spent in the car over just a few days.
Whilst this trip would been possible in our EV it would have involved charging stops, increased journey times for already long trip, and given the temp was no higher than 5degrees there would have been plenty of need to watch charge status/speed.
Whilst in her Lexus hybrid I put in a full tank of fuel on Sunday and 500 miles later of M-way driving in cold/rain, the car is still reporting over 100 miles of range left. No need to worry about stopping/slowing down/finding charging at the destination or long trips. So I wonder if EVs could ever be as convenient?
So I thought I try and see if it would have been possible to do such a trip in our planned EV to replace the Lexus, and how much more faff it would be. There is a very good website I always use to plan trips in our EV and its charge/range predictions are almost 100% accurate in the real world.
I put in the same journey profile, and selected the car we plan on getting to replace the Lexus – Performance Model 3……..and to my surprise even with just the existing Tesla SC network and no attempt at destination charging the total charging time added would only be 50 minutes our of a 9hr driving time!!
It seems even for the 1% of crazy long distance drives we still occasionally do, a long range Model 3 (or even a 100D S) would be nearly as convenient as the combustion car. Add in some more SC points and/or destination charging than it would be no issues at all.
So in answer to my own question, YES, EVs are nearly as convenient as combustion cars even on long distance trips with no destination charging. Now we just need a Model 3 + the need to do such a trip again to put theory into practice
https://abetterrouteplanner.com
dmsims said:
Yes but
Charger occupied or not working ?
In my first EV roughly 60% of public chargers I tried to use were either blocked or not working. In the Tesla I've yet to come across a single failed charger and even in SuperCharging site with only 2 bays I've never had an issue getting a charge without waiting more than 10 minutes.Charger occupied or not working ?
Keel Supercharger site have 8 chargers I believe, so the chance of finding all 8 site blocked/not working is pretty slim.
So, let me get this right:
Your wife is rushing to her meeting in Liverpool, having left the house at 5:30am with barely any sleep, and yet she has to find an extra half an hour to stop to charge the car to make it to her 9am meeting?
That doesn't just sound inconvenient, that sounds horrible.
And then after a frantic few days of work, she squeaks home, frazzled with range anxiety, on 3% charge?
As opposed to the car you have now, which did it all without a second thought?
Perhaps you should let your wife have the car she needs, rather than the car you want her to have?
Your wife is rushing to her meeting in Liverpool, having left the house at 5:30am with barely any sleep, and yet she has to find an extra half an hour to stop to charge the car to make it to her 9am meeting?
That doesn't just sound inconvenient, that sounds horrible.
And then after a frantic few days of work, she squeaks home, frazzled with range anxiety, on 3% charge?
As opposed to the car you have now, which did it all without a second thought?
Perhaps you should let your wife have the car she needs, rather than the car you want her to have?
NDNDNDND said:
So, let me get this right:
Your wife is rushing to her meeting in Liverpool, having left the house at 5:30am with barely any sleep, and yet she has to find an extra half an hour to stop to charge the car to make it to her 9am meeting?
That doesn't just sound inconvenient, that sounds horrible.
And then after a frantic few days of work, she squeaks home, frazzled with range anxiety, on 3% charge?
As opposed to the car you have now, which did it all without a second thought?
Perhaps you should let your wife have the car she needs, rather than the car you want her to have?
Does the fact his charging was free sway you at all? Would you wait 30mins at a motorway service station for free petrol? Your wife is rushing to her meeting in Liverpool, having left the house at 5:30am with barely any sleep, and yet she has to find an extra half an hour to stop to charge the car to make it to her 9am meeting?
That doesn't just sound inconvenient, that sounds horrible.
And then after a frantic few days of work, she squeaks home, frazzled with range anxiety, on 3% charge?
As opposed to the car you have now, which did it all without a second thought?
Perhaps you should let your wife have the car she needs, rather than the car you want her to have?
I think EVs are some way off being able to deal with that particular scenario as conveniently as internal combustion engines, if they ever will be at all. The best may be close and are getting closer, but there are some things being able to fill up with a high energy density liquid fuel is just better for.
But then I've done one trip of that sort in the last ten years; for the thousands of other trips we make, an EV would be at least as conveinent as a petrol car if not more so... our next family car will be electric.
But then I've done one trip of that sort in the last ten years; for the thousands of other trips we make, an EV would be at least as conveinent as a petrol car if not more so... our next family car will be electric.
Edited by kambites on Sunday 4th November 22:15
jjwilde said:
Does the fact his charging was free sway you at all? Would you wait 30mins at a motorway service station for free petrol?
GZ is discussing convenience, not cost. I was just pointing out that his analysis of the compromise of using an EV had been over-simplified. Besides, I think only the Model 3 'performance' comes with free supercharging.
As for waiting half an hour - I'd rather spend that time with my family than twiddling my thumbs in a service station. Anyway, cost will only be a temporary benefit of EVs that will likely only be enjoyed by early-adopters. As use inevitably rises, free electricity will be unviable and prices and taxes will rise until the cost of motoring will be much what it is now.
NDNDNDND said:
So, let me get this right:
Your wife is rushing to her meeting in Liverpool, having left the house at 5:30am with barely any sleep, and yet she has to find an extra half an hour to stop to charge the car to make it to her 9am meeting?
That doesn't just sound inconvenient, that sounds horrible.
And then after a frantic few days of work, she squeaks home, frazzled with range anxiety, on 3% charge?
As opposed to the car you have now, which did it all without a second thought?
Perhaps you should let your wife have the car she needs, rather than the car you want her to have?
Trust me my wife gets what ever car SHE wants, she paid for half of the X, and one of the reasons she hasn't swapped the Lexus for a S is because both of us occasionally still do long trips.Your wife is rushing to her meeting in Liverpool, having left the house at 5:30am with barely any sleep, and yet she has to find an extra half an hour to stop to charge the car to make it to her 9am meeting?
That doesn't just sound inconvenient, that sounds horrible.
And then after a frantic few days of work, she squeaks home, frazzled with range anxiety, on 3% charge?
As opposed to the car you have now, which did it all without a second thought?
Perhaps you should let your wife have the car she needs, rather than the car you want her to have?
Having said that the scenario above really is extreme even for us, and I would argue with an AP enabled Model 3 actually much more relaxing than the current car.
IF there was more destination charging at hotels than the need for rapid charging pretty much disappears even on these kind of trips.
I'm nearly convinced we can replace the Lexus with an EV, nearly. Proof will be done by driving though and I have cancelled our Model 3 order. Your right there is a party of me still unsure how well any EV can do such a trip in the real world and the Lexus will keep going on and on so no rush/need to replace it.
Next 12-24 months I hope Tesla will introduce some bigger battery pack, one thing is for sure compared to the 60 mile max range in winter at 50mph 24kWh Nissan Leaf I had in 2015 things are developing nicely
.Edited by gangzoom on Monday 5th November 06:59
kambites said:
But then I've done one trip of that sort in the last ten years; for the thousands of other trips we make, an EV would be at least as conveinent as a petrol car if not more so... our next family car will be electric.
That is the key, we spent about 4hrs on the road this weekend in our EV. No issues at all with worry about range. The EV has now done 15,600 miles in 13 months versus 22k miles in 46 months in the Lexus, that tells you all you need to know about which is our 'main' family car.Anyone can think of extreme situations when an EV might not work and use that as a reason for not trying one. But the reality is for 99% of the trips EVs are fine, its simply your mindset towards that 1%......Which again is why we still have a combustion car.
Frankly I was amazed any EV could get close to what a combustion car can do on an extereme scenario. I should add if I still had my BMW 335i I would have to have stopped at least once, possibly twice for fuel - The Toyota hybrid drive really is very freaky for a petrol engine intetms delivering real world efficency.
Edited by gangzoom on Monday 5th November 07:08
gangzoom said:
IF there was more destination charging at hotels than the need for rapid charging pretty much disappears even on these kind of trips.
This is the key thing. IHG (Holiday Inn, Crowne Plaza) seem to be getting there slowly, the others are dragging their feet. Plus while rapids at hotels can be convenient, if you're staying all you really want is a 7kw post you can leave the car on overnight. Similarly a couple of times a year I do 220ish miles, stay at a hotel for a couple of nights and return. Easy enough to get there in most current EVs with a quick rapid charge along the way, but it would be a pain to go elsewhere to charge while I'm there, or to leave much emptier for the return leg. The first nearby hotel to offer charging will be getting my money in the future.
Well done, OP, a good exercise.
EV's are already perfectly fine for the vast majority of motorists in terms of practical needs. Those who would shun an EV for the one long trip they might do every 10 years or even 1 year are doing so just to be stubbornly against EV because they do not cope well with change; those infrequent longer trips can be done in a rental until EV's have the range - and they will in the not too distant future.
Look back just 5 years and what the EV discussions looked like - those who didn't want to accept EV's as the future were very pessimistic about them doing more than 200 miles. 5 years from now, the same people will not have range anxiety arguments and will have to find other 'issues' to pick upon.
By 2030, they'll be in Hybrids or EV's anyway, regardless of whether they like it or not and by 2080 fossil-fuel cars will be Museum curiosities.
EV's are already perfectly fine for the vast majority of motorists in terms of practical needs. Those who would shun an EV for the one long trip they might do every 10 years or even 1 year are doing so just to be stubbornly against EV because they do not cope well with change; those infrequent longer trips can be done in a rental until EV's have the range - and they will in the not too distant future.
Look back just 5 years and what the EV discussions looked like - those who didn't want to accept EV's as the future were very pessimistic about them doing more than 200 miles. 5 years from now, the same people will not have range anxiety arguments and will have to find other 'issues' to pick upon.
By 2030, they'll be in Hybrids or EV's anyway, regardless of whether they like it or not and by 2080 fossil-fuel cars will be Museum curiosities.
Good write up GZ. Almost completely unbiased 
I guess the convenience for me is not so much the stopping enroute its that many people do not have the opportunity to charge up at home. You would have to factor in fully charging away from home prior to the trip as well if that was the case (which is the case for a majority living centrally in major cities).
In terms of development, I think building these cars will be fine, the big companies will copy Teslas tech as soon as the infrastructure is in place to make it a worth while investment, at the moment the segment is just too small to invest serious money in. The issue is getting the government to invest in the infrastructure to make owning an EV more viable for the masses - their policy in general is to rely on private firms to invest but it should be the government leading much more on this.
I guess the convenience for me is not so much the stopping enroute its that many people do not have the opportunity to charge up at home. You would have to factor in fully charging away from home prior to the trip as well if that was the case (which is the case for a majority living centrally in major cities).
In terms of development, I think building these cars will be fine, the big companies will copy Teslas tech as soon as the infrastructure is in place to make it a worth while investment, at the moment the segment is just too small to invest serious money in. The issue is getting the government to invest in the infrastructure to make owning an EV more viable for the masses - their policy in general is to rely on private firms to invest but it should be the government leading much more on this.
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