Charging installation at office
Discussion
All,
I've been "charged" with looking into installing charging points at our office (circa 150 employees).
For those with chargers at their offices, what sort of set-up would you recommend?
I'm thinking 4-5 "slow" chargers, with a couple of rapids.
For the slow chargers, I'm thinking 7kw so people can plug in for half a day, moving their cars at lunch-time.
The rapids would generally be reserved for visitors.
Presumably the firm would receive the income from the charging points; can we set our own electricity prices? Is it worth joining a scheme, e.g. Polar?
Thanks,
I've been "charged" with looking into installing charging points at our office (circa 150 employees).
For those with chargers at their offices, what sort of set-up would you recommend?
I'm thinking 4-5 "slow" chargers, with a couple of rapids.
For the slow chargers, I'm thinking 7kw so people can plug in for half a day, moving their cars at lunch-time.
The rapids would generally be reserved for visitors.
Presumably the firm would receive the income from the charging points; can we set our own electricity prices? Is it worth joining a scheme, e.g. Polar?
Thanks,
Just a few thoughts for you:
Typically standard chargers come in 3.6kW or 7.2kW varieties without needing the further expense of installing 3 phase power. My understanding is that it becomes quite a bit more expensive once you go to 3 phase, but I don't have any current figures.
Assuming your staff are present for a typical 8 hour day, even a 3.6kW charger would be sufficient to add (theoretically nearly 29kW) 120 miles or more range.
I would look to install chargers and cabling which can deliver 7.2kW even if they were initially set to the lower delivery rate in order to provide some future proofing.
I know that various suppliers offer token operated charging posts, which mean you can control access to the posts and charge as you see fit. Rolec, for instance, provide some affordable options such as the BasicCharge post.
Typically standard chargers come in 3.6kW or 7.2kW varieties without needing the further expense of installing 3 phase power. My understanding is that it becomes quite a bit more expensive once you go to 3 phase, but I don't have any current figures.
Assuming your staff are present for a typical 8 hour day, even a 3.6kW charger would be sufficient to add (theoretically nearly 29kW) 120 miles or more range.
I would look to install chargers and cabling which can deliver 7.2kW even if they were initially set to the lower delivery rate in order to provide some future proofing.
I know that various suppliers offer token operated charging posts, which mean you can control access to the posts and charge as you see fit. Rolec, for instance, provide some affordable options such as the BasicCharge post.
I think first things first - what are your staff's motoring needs? All people just commuting a normal distance and sitting in an office all day, people visiting from far afield for training or meetings, sales types or field engineers who pop in and out, pool cars or vans that need to be kept topped up?
Commuters first: realistically a lot of them can charge at home and even shorter range EVs will cover the distance OK. You may want to accommodate longer range PHEV drivers who can't cover it all on electric and want to top up - they'll need a couple of hours on a 16A charger to do so. You may also get people who can't charge at home but would look to rely on workplace charging instead. There's also the cheapskates who'll trade some convenience for saving a few pence if you make them free or lower than domestic tariffs.
Rapid is good to have if you can enforce sensible time limits on them (45 mins or so, maybe an hour tops) - if you let someone just dump their car on it at 9am and not bother to move it until they go home then it's a waste. Good fit for people making occasional trips in from further away though.
Generally I'd say more slower points are better though - assume anyone parking on them will keep the car there until they leave. This recent Autotrader report has been painted negatively but the "26% of those surveyed intend an electric car to be their next vehicle" stat is interesting - what would it do to your plan if 26% of your staff did in the next couple of years? What if it's past 50% in 5 years?
Commuters first: realistically a lot of them can charge at home and even shorter range EVs will cover the distance OK. You may want to accommodate longer range PHEV drivers who can't cover it all on electric and want to top up - they'll need a couple of hours on a 16A charger to do so. You may also get people who can't charge at home but would look to rely on workplace charging instead. There's also the cheapskates who'll trade some convenience for saving a few pence if you make them free or lower than domestic tariffs.
Rapid is good to have if you can enforce sensible time limits on them (45 mins or so, maybe an hour tops) - if you let someone just dump their car on it at 9am and not bother to move it until they go home then it's a waste. Good fit for people making occasional trips in from further away though.
Generally I'd say more slower points are better though - assume anyone parking on them will keep the car there until they leave. This recent Autotrader report has been painted negatively but the "26% of those surveyed intend an electric car to be their next vehicle" stat is interesting - what would it do to your plan if 26% of your staff did in the next couple of years? What if it's past 50% in 5 years?
Some good points already made about rapid charging vs regular & charger blocking
One thing to look out for is the actual availability on-site of enough spare power capacity for the units without having to install your own private power station
Some recent work I've been involved with suggested you might be looking at too many chargers rather than too few given the low take-up of full electric cars (as opposed PHEV for which plugging in at work is a bonus not a necessity)
One thing to look out for is the actual availability on-site of enough spare power capacity for the units without having to install your own private power station
Some recent work I've been involved with suggested you might be looking at too many chargers rather than too few given the low take-up of full electric cars (as opposed PHEV for which plugging in at work is a bonus not a necessity)
We have e chargers at 2 of our sites.
One site has 2 combined posts, each post having a Type 2 and a domestic 3 pin socket. Both can be used simultaneously.
The other site has 4 type 2 posts, 7kw.
They're all well used, split between EV and PHEV owners. None of the EVs need a charge (2 Tesla, one local Leaf) in work and there are several PHEV vehicles including my own. At the first site we have needed to rotate cars at lunchtime in the past. All chargers are free, tax man allows this for employees since April to not be a BIK.
I wouldn't bother with a rapid charger. Even a 22kW type 2 (3 phase) might be pointless if the wrong car arrives. I think your better offering them a Type 2 7kw post for their time visiting (has to be at least an hour?) And then point them to the nearest rapid charger.
One site has 2 combined posts, each post having a Type 2 and a domestic 3 pin socket. Both can be used simultaneously.
The other site has 4 type 2 posts, 7kw.
They're all well used, split between EV and PHEV owners. None of the EVs need a charge (2 Tesla, one local Leaf) in work and there are several PHEV vehicles including my own. At the first site we have needed to rotate cars at lunchtime in the past. All chargers are free, tax man allows this for employees since April to not be a BIK.
I wouldn't bother with a rapid charger. Even a 22kW type 2 (3 phase) might be pointless if the wrong car arrives. I think your better offering them a Type 2 7kw post for their time visiting (has to be at least an hour?) And then point them to the nearest rapid charger.
Evanivitch said:
We have e chargers at 2 of our sites.
One site has 2 combined posts, each post having a Type 2 and a domestic 3 pin socket. Both can be used simultaneously.
The other site has 4 type 2 posts, 7kw.
They're all well used, split between EV and PHEV owners. None of the EVs need a charge (2 Tesla, one local Leaf) in work and there are several PHEV vehicles including my own. At the first site we have needed to rotate cars at lunchtime in the past. All chargers are free, tax man allows this for employees since April to not be a BIK.
I wouldn't bother with a rapid charger. Even a 22kW type 2 (3 phase) might be pointless if the wrong car arrives. I think your better offering them a Type 2 7kw post for their time visiting (has to be at least an hour?) And then point them to the nearest rapid charger.
Cool, very useful, thanks.One site has 2 combined posts, each post having a Type 2 and a domestic 3 pin socket. Both can be used simultaneously.
The other site has 4 type 2 posts, 7kw.
They're all well used, split between EV and PHEV owners. None of the EVs need a charge (2 Tesla, one local Leaf) in work and there are several PHEV vehicles including my own. At the first site we have needed to rotate cars at lunchtime in the past. All chargers are free, tax man allows this for employees since April to not be a BIK.
I wouldn't bother with a rapid charger. Even a 22kW type 2 (3 phase) might be pointless if the wrong car arrives. I think your better offering them a Type 2 7kw post for their time visiting (has to be at least an hour?) And then point them to the nearest rapid charger.
As mentioned, check with your local council, grants are available to help with, or in fact completely cover, the cost of installation!
If your office has a decent 3phase in-comer feed, then definitely fit 3 phase (22kW) chargers as this is becoming the defacto "slow" charge fitment for a lot of cars.
How many you fit and can be used simultaneously will depend upon your exact power feed layout. I'd also recommend simply getting some decent waterproof 13A single phase sockets fitted on posts or a wall near to a few parking spots, and if necessary buying some mobile EVSE's, in that way, anyone can charge (slowly) if necessary
I carry a cheap 3kW EVSE ( OpenEVSE ) in my i3, which with a decent extension lead is perfect to grab a bit of charge if really necessary from any std 3 pin socket
If your office has a decent 3phase in-comer feed, then definitely fit 3 phase (22kW) chargers as this is becoming the defacto "slow" charge fitment for a lot of cars.
How many you fit and can be used simultaneously will depend upon your exact power feed layout. I'd also recommend simply getting some decent waterproof 13A single phase sockets fitted on posts or a wall near to a few parking spots, and if necessary buying some mobile EVSE's, in that way, anyone can charge (slowly) if necessary
I carry a cheap 3kW EVSE ( OpenEVSE ) in my i3, which with a decent extension lead is perfect to grab a bit of charge if really necessary from any std 3 pin socket
Evanivitch said:
We have e chargers at 2 of our sites.
One site has 2 combined posts, each post having a Type 2 and a domestic 3 pin socket. Both can be used simultaneously.
The other site has 4 type 2 posts, 7kw.
They're all well used, split between EV and PHEV owners. None of the EVs need a charge (2 Tesla, one local Leaf) in work and there are several PHEV vehicles including my own. At the first site we have needed to rotate cars at lunchtime in the past. All chargers are free, tax man allows this for employees since April to not be a BIK.
I wouldn't bother with a rapid charger. Even a 22kW type 2 (3 phase) might be pointless if the wrong car arrives. I think your better offering them a Type 2 7kw post for their time visiting (has to be at least an hour?) And then point them to the nearest rapid charger.
Most Type 2 chargers can be configured to make use of the available power. Where two or more are located, the power can be apportioned so that 1 vehicle gets all the power until another arrives, then they share etc.One site has 2 combined posts, each post having a Type 2 and a domestic 3 pin socket. Both can be used simultaneously.
The other site has 4 type 2 posts, 7kw.
They're all well used, split between EV and PHEV owners. None of the EVs need a charge (2 Tesla, one local Leaf) in work and there are several PHEV vehicles including my own. At the first site we have needed to rotate cars at lunchtime in the past. All chargers are free, tax man allows this for employees since April to not be a BIK.
I wouldn't bother with a rapid charger. Even a 22kW type 2 (3 phase) might be pointless if the wrong car arrives. I think your better offering them a Type 2 7kw post for their time visiting (has to be at least an hour?) And then point them to the nearest rapid charger.
Back-office function needs exploring if you are going to charge for or restrict use.
Our fleet services are currently looking into this for one of our sites (3500 parking spaces).
I believe there is a workplace grant for installation of up to 20x chargers.
As others have said, rapids probably are OTT unless you're really out in the sticks away from a lot of civilisation and 7.2kW should suffice. Whilst we're a big site and have several generators even on-site for backup power, running several datacentres too, we're not even looking at installation of Rapid 22kW+ type chargers. Most PHEVs only charge at 3.6-7.2kW, it'd only be Tesla, Leaf etc, pure EVs that'd be able to benefit from rapid charging.
I also wonder if you could talk to Tesla about destination chargers? https://www.tesla.com/destination-charging?redirec...
Ours is being done in co-operation with Leaseplan, as we have a massive fleet with them - might it be worth talking to any vendor your company lease a lot of vehicles off of? They're also looking at setting up a scheme for employees to get homepoint chargers installed via the lease company.
Edit : You're looking at clawing income back off people? That's more of an interesting challenge and you've got to install some smart stuff. I'm not sure chargemaster/Polar/etc do workplace installations - or I've certainly not heard of that being done.
IIRC the BIK charge for vehicles receiving juice has been lifted and is no longer considered BIK rated for *company* vehicles. If you charge a personal vehicle at the workplace that is different still and attracts BIK.
I believe there is a workplace grant for installation of up to 20x chargers.
As others have said, rapids probably are OTT unless you're really out in the sticks away from a lot of civilisation and 7.2kW should suffice. Whilst we're a big site and have several generators even on-site for backup power, running several datacentres too, we're not even looking at installation of Rapid 22kW+ type chargers. Most PHEVs only charge at 3.6-7.2kW, it'd only be Tesla, Leaf etc, pure EVs that'd be able to benefit from rapid charging.
I also wonder if you could talk to Tesla about destination chargers? https://www.tesla.com/destination-charging?redirec...
Ours is being done in co-operation with Leaseplan, as we have a massive fleet with them - might it be worth talking to any vendor your company lease a lot of vehicles off of? They're also looking at setting up a scheme for employees to get homepoint chargers installed via the lease company.
Edit : You're looking at clawing income back off people? That's more of an interesting challenge and you've got to install some smart stuff. I'm not sure chargemaster/Polar/etc do workplace installations - or I've certainly not heard of that being done.
IIRC the BIK charge for vehicles receiving juice has been lifted and is no longer considered BIK rated for *company* vehicles. If you charge a personal vehicle at the workplace that is different still and attracts BIK.
Edited by caseys on Friday 31st August 16:32
Edited by caseys on Friday 31st August 16:35
caseys said:
Edit : You're looking at clawing income back off people? That's more of an interesting challenge and you've got to install some smart stuff. I'm not sure chargemaster/Polar/etc do workplace installations - or I've certainly not heard of that being done.
IIRC the BIK charge for vehicles receiving juice has been lifted and is no longer considered BIK rated for *company* vehicles. If you charge a personal vehicle at the workplace that is different still and attracts BIK.
We've had a few chargemaster posts at work under a grant. They come with RFID cards so theoretically monitor usage and charge people quite easily. However as all are PHEV's the cost is negligible so have decided not to.IIRC the BIK charge for vehicles receiving juice has been lifted and is no longer considered BIK rated for *company* vehicles. If you charge a personal vehicle at the workplace that is different still and attracts BIK.
Edited by caseys on Friday 31st August 16:32
Edited by caseys on Friday 31st August 16:35
Max_Torque said:
If your office has a decent 3phase in-comer feed, then definitely fit 3 phase (22kW) chargers as this is becoming the defacto "slow" charge fitment for a lot of cars.
What's the benefit of rapid charging when you're in work all day? Even 7kW posts will meet most people's commuting needs in half a day.Max_Torque said:
I'd also recommend simply getting some decent waterproof 13A single phase sockets fitted on posts or a wall near to a few parking spots, and if necessary buying some mobile EVSE's, in that way, anyone can charge (slowly) if necessary
I'd advise against this. 3-pin are an unnecessary burden and reliability issue. They're also incredibly slow.Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff