Second hand market for hybrids?
Discussion
After having a fairly serious issue with my 330e last week, that sees it stuck at BMW for at least another 2 weeks, I started thinking whether there is going to be a strong second hand market for these types of cars?
Mine is less than a year old and obviously the warranty covers any issues, however if it was out of warranty the cost to replace any of the EV parts would be extortionate and i personally wouldn't take the risk despite loving the drivetrain/engine.
Knowing the costs and relatively fragile nature of the batteries in particular, would you take the risk? I guess this should be Toyota aside because as far as i'm aware their hybrids seem reliable for the most part.
Mine is less than a year old and obviously the warranty covers any issues, however if it was out of warranty the cost to replace any of the EV parts would be extortionate and i personally wouldn't take the risk despite loving the drivetrain/engine.
Knowing the costs and relatively fragile nature of the batteries in particular, would you take the risk? I guess this should be Toyota aside because as far as i'm aware their hybrids seem reliable for the most part.
Buying a second hand car is always a risk, regardless. People are more wary of hybrid/EV because (even though it's now a 20 years old concept) it is seen as being specialist, impossible for a normal person to comprehend etc. People said the same of ECU and fuel injection powered cars as you are saying about your 330e. Those are 30-odd years old now and we are no longer afraid of it.
As the tech gets older, we will start understanding which cars have certain flaws. Maybe the issue with your 330e will turn out to be a common one, and therefore will be watched for when buying second/third/etc hand, many years down the line. Just like we know that, for example, E39's have weak cooling systems, certain VAG engines use too much oil, or whatever other common faults on certain makes/models you can think of.
Electric drive is inherently more reliable than internal combustion, modern electronics are way more reliable than carbs, points and suchlike.
As the tech gets older, we will start understanding which cars have certain flaws. Maybe the issue with your 330e will turn out to be a common one, and therefore will be watched for when buying second/third/etc hand, many years down the line. Just like we know that, for example, E39's have weak cooling systems, certain VAG engines use too much oil, or whatever other common faults on certain makes/models you can think of.
Electric drive is inherently more reliable than internal combustion, modern electronics are way more reliable than carbs, points and suchlike.
Very good points and I agree that we may learn certain cars have common faults and to be wary of these. That said however, a common fault on an ICE is less likely to cost £000s, whereas currently thats the cost of some of the EV components on hybrids.
I'm sure as the technology continues to advance they will become cheaper and the faults more and more unlikely.We are at a point now though where some 330es and C300/350s now approaching/have got to the end of their warranty and i'm not sure i'd shell out well over £20k knowing a £5k part could fail tomorrow. Add in the infrastructure at BMW, or lack of, for supporting hybrids and that £5k fault also leaves me without a car for 3 weeks.
I'm sure as the technology continues to advance they will become cheaper and the faults more and more unlikely.We are at a point now though where some 330es and C300/350s now approaching/have got to the end of their warranty and i'm not sure i'd shell out well over £20k knowing a £5k part could fail tomorrow. Add in the infrastructure at BMW, or lack of, for supporting hybrids and that £5k fault also leaves me without a car for 3 weeks.
A good question. Another factor is that the hybrids like the 330e are only really useful to those with a regular short commute and, more likely, business users who want to avoid BIK.
Business users aren’t likely to be buying used and the a lot of the main market, I would suggest won’t have a profile that fits.
A hybrid like the 330e wouldn’t be much use to me so, were I in the market for a used car, it would be a negative point for the reasons you suggest.
But they’ve been out a while now, how do the used values stack up?
Business users aren’t likely to be buying used and the a lot of the main market, I would suggest won’t have a profile that fits.
A hybrid like the 330e wouldn’t be much use to me so, were I in the market for a used car, it would be a negative point for the reasons you suggest.
But they’ve been out a while now, how do the used values stack up?
over on speakev some chap has had two REX motors in i3 die, at circa £5k/pop to replace. Some people hazarding that rare use of the REX motor is in fact detrimental to the vehicle.
330e lease here (until november anyway) and I wouldn't consider buying mine or a PHEV. Whereas I would consider buying the missus a 2nd hand new-ish EV.
I think the hybrid nature of them as others have said will make them awkward/costly to work on. And most PHEVs have been born out of BIK rules, rather than a long term look at TCO of the vehicle for private new/2nd hand buyers.
330e lease here (until november anyway) and I wouldn't consider buying mine or a PHEV. Whereas I would consider buying the missus a 2nd hand new-ish EV.
I think the hybrid nature of them as others have said will make them awkward/costly to work on. And most PHEVs have been born out of BIK rules, rather than a long term look at TCO of the vehicle for private new/2nd hand buyers.
Batteries are relatively simple and made up of lots of modules - a main dealer will regard it as a single part (with a hefty pricetag) but they can be easily taken apart, tested and rebuilt.
Main concern I'd have with running a PHEV as a long-term prospect is all of the internal combustion engine stuff along with various electrical and mechanical stuff to combine them. Our Golf GTE has a 1.4 TSI engine, a DSG gearbox with the electric motor hanging off the side and the rest of the engine bay stuffed to the brim with control electronics. I imagine a DSG fault that could also occur on a regular petrol Golf would be quite a bit more expensive to sort out just with all the things that would need to be moved out of the way to access it.
PHEVs will make a lot of sense for a lot of people for many years to come so I'd expect there to be a decent secondhand market. If I was wanting something to run for 10+ years I'd be looking to a pure battery EV, far simpler mechanically.
Main concern I'd have with running a PHEV as a long-term prospect is all of the internal combustion engine stuff along with various electrical and mechanical stuff to combine them. Our Golf GTE has a 1.4 TSI engine, a DSG gearbox with the electric motor hanging off the side and the rest of the engine bay stuffed to the brim with control electronics. I imagine a DSG fault that could also occur on a regular petrol Golf would be quite a bit more expensive to sort out just with all the things that would need to be moved out of the way to access it.
PHEVs will make a lot of sense for a lot of people for many years to come so I'd expect there to be a decent secondhand market. If I was wanting something to run for 10+ years I'd be looking to a pure battery EV, far simpler mechanically.
PHEV are the most potentially problematic in terms of failure, as you've got all of both power systems AND a third system trying to link them together.
Pure EV is extremely simple really. As long as the battery is in good health, there's not a great deal else going on.
Mind you, the multivarious bulls
t surrounding a modern diesel engine is fragile and extremely expensive to replace, so it's not like we're leaving a great situation behind us as we move towards hybrid and electric propulsion.
Pure EV is extremely simple really. As long as the battery is in good health, there's not a great deal else going on.
Mind you, the multivarious bulls
t surrounding a modern diesel engine is fragile and extremely expensive to replace, so it's not like we're leaving a great situation behind us as we move towards hybrid and electric propulsion.Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff