Off to test drive a Tesla this afternoon. Excited !
Discussion
Just thought i'd share the latest in a long line of mind changing as far as my car goes..
Background; We have an i3 and an S3
The i3 was for commuting, it was me and my other half travelling down to London each day but that has changed.
The S3 is my car and the fun car but as the other half is using the i3 for her own needs now we need to rethink the S3
The plan was i get an i3s and a 981 boxster s for the weekends.
Somehow I've got it into my head that it would be cheaper to get a (used) P90D to do the job of the i3s and the boxster
I have my eye on a 2015 P90D with air suspension, subzero package and premium audio - it's not cheap. £65k but i figure i'd pay £25k for the boxster and £40k for the i3s and only have one car to insure & maintain + no unleaded to shell out for. Man Math?
Driving characteristics aside (obviously i won't get the experience of the boxster in the Tesla) i'm hoping the P90d gives me what i need out of a car from a fun point of view.
One trick pony, i'll get bored of the 3.1 to 60 and the instant torque. I'll get bored of the 'sterile' way the tesla drives. I won't be able to put the roof down. it weighs 2.2 tons. All things that are swirling around in my head that i can't silence.
I don't suppose anyone has experience of this 'dilemma' (first world problems etc etc) or anything to add that i might not have considered ? (from a pros and cons point of view)
Background; We have an i3 and an S3
The i3 was for commuting, it was me and my other half travelling down to London each day but that has changed.
The S3 is my car and the fun car but as the other half is using the i3 for her own needs now we need to rethink the S3
The plan was i get an i3s and a 981 boxster s for the weekends.
Somehow I've got it into my head that it would be cheaper to get a (used) P90D to do the job of the i3s and the boxster
I have my eye on a 2015 P90D with air suspension, subzero package and premium audio - it's not cheap. £65k but i figure i'd pay £25k for the boxster and £40k for the i3s and only have one car to insure & maintain + no unleaded to shell out for. Man Math?
Driving characteristics aside (obviously i won't get the experience of the boxster in the Tesla) i'm hoping the P90d gives me what i need out of a car from a fun point of view.
One trick pony, i'll get bored of the 3.1 to 60 and the instant torque. I'll get bored of the 'sterile' way the tesla drives. I won't be able to put the roof down. it weighs 2.2 tons. All things that are swirling around in my head that i can't silence.
I don't suppose anyone has experience of this 'dilemma' (first world problems etc etc) or anything to add that i might not have considered ? (from a pros and cons point of view)
Obviously your going to get a million different opinions when the only one that matters is yours. You’ll know more after the test drive but one thing for sure, you will not get bored of the instant torque. Maybe the 0-60 thrill wears off, but the responsiveness of the throttle is addictive.
For what it’s worth, on the closed Facebook group for owners, the number of people who want to go back to their old RR’s, Porsche’s, etc etc are hugely outnumbered by those who would happily never drive an ICE again.
I drove a Cayman R and Boxster S the other weekend, and as fun as they are, I wouldn’t swap my Tesla for all the tea in China.
For what it’s worth, on the closed Facebook group for owners, the number of people who want to go back to their old RR’s, Porsche’s, etc etc are hugely outnumbered by those who would happily never drive an ICE again.
I drove a Cayman R and Boxster S the other weekend, and as fun as they are, I wouldn’t swap my Tesla for all the tea in China.
Hope you like it, I had a 90D for 4 days over this weekend and covered 1100 miles in it. I've been keeping an eye on 2nd hand prices but they're a little strong for me still. I'll be interested to hear what your think and if you eventually buy one.
It was an interesting experience and my reservations over charging were unfounded with plenty of superchargers available and the waiting times for charging to finish manageable. Throwing in a 150 mile charge took around 35-40 minutes on average and the only danger is spending in the services.
Some locations were much better than others (Oxford and Fleet are superb - Edinburgh is a small staff car park with only 2 units right next to aircraft with their associated smells, noise and a lengthy walk to the terminal if you need the loo or food/drink). I also had trouble at Keele where every man and his dog uses the supercharger spots to park as they're close to the entrance and Tesla's are driven by "rich w
kers" so I'm told by one lovely chap.
I was also a little surprised how much noise the car makes when charging, sounds a bit like a cross between a substation and a dyson on full chat. Don't know why but I just assumed it'd be quiet.
The 90D was quick, performance car quick but not really suited to hustling along. It's more a fast cruiser and with the air suspension seemed to have trouble controlling pitching on country roads. Seemed to cope really well in town though and with motorways.
The acceleration from standstill is good with no gearchanges required and plenty of grip it's effortless and repeatable. Hard acceleration in corners a little less controlled, again needs to be treated like a large cruiser rather than a well setup sports car backing off mid corner when accelerating hard isn't recommended (ask me how I know!) The noise on the other hand isn't pleasant, think of broken turbo type whine at lower speeds with wind noise taking over at higher speeds.
Interior quality was well above what I expected (2016 model) with nice materials, plenty of storage and very adjustable and comfortable seats although the seat bases are a little short for taller drivers. The central screen was fine when stopped, just not good to use on the move. The navigation system is pretty woeful if I'm honest, dim witted and extremely slow to calculate a route. I moved back to using Waze on my phone after the first day with it. I believe the later models have an improved screen module with more memory which may solve this issue.
Entertainment was also poor with reliance of LTE for Tunein or Spotify, DAB and FM were ok but not that easy to search for and select on the move. Radio 5 Live on AM was terrible, any amount of accelerate caused some weird electrical interference drowning out the station although no-one uses AM anymore I suppose.
Autopilot - found it useful for a few miles of relief on very quiet stretches of motorway but in the end I barely used it. The adaptive cruise was pretty good though and at least as good as other manufacturers systems. The autopilot also put the car exactly central in lane regardless of the surrounding traffic and this, although safe, made me feel uncomfortable using it with heavy lane 1 traffic alongside. Might be something to get used to but naturally I found driving manually I'd sit more to the drivers side of the lanes. It's a big car more in width than length and can be slightly more tricky to position on narrow roads.
I enjoyed the time with the car, didn't walk away thinking I need to sell a kidney to buy one and haven't really missed it too much now I'm back in the humble A3. However, if I had a spare £40k I'd probably siting in a secondhand one right now
If anyone fancies a longer drive, I got mine from whitecar ( https://white.car/ ). Their rates are reasonable and no mileage limit plus excess insurance from a 3rd part for about £20 can reduce your risk to zero.
It was an interesting experience and my reservations over charging were unfounded with plenty of superchargers available and the waiting times for charging to finish manageable. Throwing in a 150 mile charge took around 35-40 minutes on average and the only danger is spending in the services.
Some locations were much better than others (Oxford and Fleet are superb - Edinburgh is a small staff car park with only 2 units right next to aircraft with their associated smells, noise and a lengthy walk to the terminal if you need the loo or food/drink). I also had trouble at Keele where every man and his dog uses the supercharger spots to park as they're close to the entrance and Tesla's are driven by "rich w
kers" so I'm told by one lovely chap.I was also a little surprised how much noise the car makes when charging, sounds a bit like a cross between a substation and a dyson on full chat. Don't know why but I just assumed it'd be quiet.
The 90D was quick, performance car quick but not really suited to hustling along. It's more a fast cruiser and with the air suspension seemed to have trouble controlling pitching on country roads. Seemed to cope really well in town though and with motorways.
The acceleration from standstill is good with no gearchanges required and plenty of grip it's effortless and repeatable. Hard acceleration in corners a little less controlled, again needs to be treated like a large cruiser rather than a well setup sports car backing off mid corner when accelerating hard isn't recommended (ask me how I know!) The noise on the other hand isn't pleasant, think of broken turbo type whine at lower speeds with wind noise taking over at higher speeds.
Interior quality was well above what I expected (2016 model) with nice materials, plenty of storage and very adjustable and comfortable seats although the seat bases are a little short for taller drivers. The central screen was fine when stopped, just not good to use on the move. The navigation system is pretty woeful if I'm honest, dim witted and extremely slow to calculate a route. I moved back to using Waze on my phone after the first day with it. I believe the later models have an improved screen module with more memory which may solve this issue.
Entertainment was also poor with reliance of LTE for Tunein or Spotify, DAB and FM were ok but not that easy to search for and select on the move. Radio 5 Live on AM was terrible, any amount of accelerate caused some weird electrical interference drowning out the station although no-one uses AM anymore I suppose.
Autopilot - found it useful for a few miles of relief on very quiet stretches of motorway but in the end I barely used it. The adaptive cruise was pretty good though and at least as good as other manufacturers systems. The autopilot also put the car exactly central in lane regardless of the surrounding traffic and this, although safe, made me feel uncomfortable using it with heavy lane 1 traffic alongside. Might be something to get used to but naturally I found driving manually I'd sit more to the drivers side of the lanes. It's a big car more in width than length and can be slightly more tricky to position on narrow roads.
I enjoyed the time with the car, didn't walk away thinking I need to sell a kidney to buy one and haven't really missed it too much now I'm back in the humble A3. However, if I had a spare £40k I'd probably siting in a secondhand one right now
If anyone fancies a longer drive, I got mine from whitecar ( https://white.car/ ). Their rates are reasonable and no mileage limit plus excess insurance from a 3rd part for about £20 can reduce your risk to zero.
Blaster72 said:
Some locations were much better than others (Oxford and Fleet are superb - Edinburgh is a small staff car park with only 2 units right next to aircraft with their associated smells, noise and a lengthy walk to the terminal if you need the loo or food/drink).
I was also a little surprised how much noise the car makes when charging, sounds a bit like a cross between a substation and a dyson on full chat. Don't know why but I just assumed it'd be quiet.
The navigation system is pretty woeful if I'm honest, dim witted and extremely slow to calculate a route. I moved back to using Waze on my phone after the first day with it. I believe the later models have an improved screen module with more memory which may solve this issue.
Radio 5 Live on AM was terrible, any amount of accelerate caused some weird electrical interference drowning out the station although no-one uses AM anymore I suppose.
The noise when Supercharging is the fans keeping the battery pack cool whilst pumping leccy in at up to 120kWs. When the battery pack is cool and/or the charge rate is lower e.g. 7kW at home it's silent.I was also a little surprised how much noise the car makes when charging, sounds a bit like a cross between a substation and a dyson on full chat. Don't know why but I just assumed it'd be quiet.
The navigation system is pretty woeful if I'm honest, dim witted and extremely slow to calculate a route. I moved back to using Waze on my phone after the first day with it. I believe the later models have an improved screen module with more memory which may solve this issue.
Radio 5 Live on AM was terrible, any amount of accelerate caused some weird electrical interference drowning out the station although no-one uses AM anymore I suppose.
New navigation is rolling out in the UK via the free OTA updates now, reports generally are that it's much better and the traffic routing is nearly as good as Waze.
5 Live on DAB is fine but the whole Spotify connection can be flaky. It's one of those "fixed in the next software update" scenarios.
Whitecar are excellent, they used to provide an airport valet parking service but now you have to be prepared to have your car rented out whilst your away. That's not for me!
Yep it was only noisy during supercharging, I did try the 3 pin plug at home last night just out of interest but it's a little slow to say the least. Ok for emergencies I guess.
The chap from Whitecar told me they have 26 Tesla's available to rent now so they must be doing ok. Mine had done 40k+ and every wheel was scuffed, the front badge fallen off but apart from that it was in good condition. The interior was holding up well. It's a bit of an unconventional setup and their website is crap but can't fault the service.
The only other thing that I missed was having access to the App. We accidentally set Valet mode on Saturday and had to use twitter to get hold of them to set it back to my profile as it was PIN protected.
It was a bit bizzare for the seat and steering wheel to suddenly start moving when they reset it for me! Would have been good to have the App to see charge state as well but just made a mental note of the time and how long I needed to leave it when we wandered off for a coffee.
As for the Radio, I couldn't find 5 Live on DAB. That may have just been my location at the time.
The chap from Whitecar told me they have 26 Tesla's available to rent now so they must be doing ok. Mine had done 40k+ and every wheel was scuffed, the front badge fallen off but apart from that it was in good condition. The interior was holding up well. It's a bit of an unconventional setup and their website is crap but can't fault the service.
The only other thing that I missed was having access to the App. We accidentally set Valet mode on Saturday and had to use twitter to get hold of them to set it back to my profile as it was PIN protected.
It was a bit bizzare for the seat and steering wheel to suddenly start moving when they reset it for me! Would have been good to have the App to see charge state as well but just made a mental note of the time and how long I needed to leave it when we wandered off for a coffee.
As for the Radio, I couldn't find 5 Live on DAB. That may have just been my location at the time.
Here's my 2p. I have an old BMW 330Ci coupe as my daily, and a 981 Boxster S as my weekend car. Although I've been driving the Boxster nearly daily for the past couple of months due to the fabulous weather.
First of all, good luck getting a half decent 981 Boxster S for £25k. You'll need around £30k for a decently specced one unless it has a lot of miles. I paid £36k for mine with low miles and a great spec, and I'm being offered more for it as it's a pretty unique example.
Second point - as you say the Boxster S and the Tesla are incomparable. My brother owns a Model S 75D, and I've spend a bit of time driving it. The Tesla's torque makes it compelling at first, but I found I got bored of the crazy acceleration. It just lacks the visceral feel of the Boxster, which if you have the Sport Chrono option and the PSE sports exhaust makes an absolutely glorious noise. The Tesla sounds like a sewing machine in comparison and drives like a 5-series. Very smooth and comfortable, but in no way a sports car. And the Tesla I believe does not exceed 125MPH I believe. 175 in the Boxster S. Perhaps not an issue if you're not doing a weekend in Germany. But I want a performance car to accelerate hard and go fast...
Also, while the Tesla has a decent range and charges quickly on a supercharger, the fact that it isn't ICE powered means it's not really a car you can drive on a carefree weekend away. You need to plan your route so that you never stray out of range of a charging station. This may not be an issue in the future, but the future's not here yet.
First of all, good luck getting a half decent 981 Boxster S for £25k. You'll need around £30k for a decently specced one unless it has a lot of miles. I paid £36k for mine with low miles and a great spec, and I'm being offered more for it as it's a pretty unique example.
Second point - as you say the Boxster S and the Tesla are incomparable. My brother owns a Model S 75D, and I've spend a bit of time driving it. The Tesla's torque makes it compelling at first, but I found I got bored of the crazy acceleration. It just lacks the visceral feel of the Boxster, which if you have the Sport Chrono option and the PSE sports exhaust makes an absolutely glorious noise. The Tesla sounds like a sewing machine in comparison and drives like a 5-series. Very smooth and comfortable, but in no way a sports car. And the Tesla I believe does not exceed 125MPH I believe. 175 in the Boxster S. Perhaps not an issue if you're not doing a weekend in Germany. But I want a performance car to accelerate hard and go fast...
Also, while the Tesla has a decent range and charges quickly on a supercharger, the fact that it isn't ICE powered means it's not really a car you can drive on a carefree weekend away. You need to plan your route so that you never stray out of range of a charging station. This may not be an issue in the future, but the future's not here yet.
Blaster72 said:
Yep it was only noisy during supercharging, I did try the 3 pin plug at home last night just out of interest but it's a little slow to say the least. Ok for emergencies I guess.
The chap from Whitecar told me they have 26 Tesla's available to rent now so they must be doing ok. Mine had done 40k+ and every wheel was scuffed, the front badge fallen off but apart from that it was in good condition. The interior was holding up well. It's a bit of an unconventional setup and their website is crap but can't fault the service.
The only other thing that I missed was having access to the App. We accidentally set Valet mode on Saturday and had to use twitter to get hold of them to set it back to my profile as it was PIN protected.
It was a bit bizzare for the seat and steering wheel to suddenly start moving when they reset it for me! Would have been good to have the App to see charge state as well but just made a mental note of the time and how long I needed to leave it when we wandered off for a coffee.
As for the Radio, I couldn't find 5 Live on DAB. That may have just been my location at the time.
The 3 pin is defo for emergencies, although at about 6 mph it possibly does the job if you are away from home and just need to keep the charge level ticking over. The chap from Whitecar told me they have 26 Tesla's available to rent now so they must be doing ok. Mine had done 40k+ and every wheel was scuffed, the front badge fallen off but apart from that it was in good condition. The interior was holding up well. It's a bit of an unconventional setup and their website is crap but can't fault the service.
The only other thing that I missed was having access to the App. We accidentally set Valet mode on Saturday and had to use twitter to get hold of them to set it back to my profile as it was PIN protected.
It was a bit bizzare for the seat and steering wheel to suddenly start moving when they reset it for me! Would have been good to have the App to see charge state as well but just made a mental note of the time and how long I needed to leave it when we wandered off for a coffee.
As for the Radio, I couldn't find 5 Live on DAB. That may have just been my location at the time.
Not having the App is a pity, especially at the moment - turning the air con 10 minutes before getting in to the car is great. Must have been a bit spooky when the seat and wheel started moving!
I think with the DAB set up you need to have the entertainment app full screen to get all the options.
LunarOne said:
The Tesla's torque makes it compelling at first, but I found I got bored of the crazy acceleration. It just lacks the visceral feel of the Boxster, which if you have the Sport Chrono option and the PSE sports exhaust makes an absolutely glorious noise.
For me the noise cars make is embarrassing. I like the silent acceleration, it's probably a generational thing with older people liking the loud noise etc. because it's what they grew up liking I guess.Whenever a loud car goes past in the street whenever I'm with friends people just say 'w
ker'. I don't want to be that guy in that car!PixelpeepS3 said:
The plan was i get an i3s and a 981 boxster s for the weekends.
LunarOneample said:
Second point - as you say the Boxster S and the Tesla are incomparable.
Completely agree, I love our X, there is no other car I rather own/drive, but thats because we have a young family and 95% of my driving these days is ferrying around our daughter/grand parents/commuting, the days of driving 'just for fun' is just not a option for me and to be honest I much rather spend time with my family theses days than to just go out and drive by my self - But I do get to do on hour long drives on local B roads every weekend because thats the only way my daughter will nap, hence putting nearly 22K on the Tesla is just 15 months depsite living just 5 miles away from work 
.However the Performance Model 3 will come close to delivering a 'sports car' driving experience than any of the current EVs on sale, and it may just steal the crown off the M3 as the default 'fast saloon' of choice for people who want speed whilst still carry people/stuff around.
If you have the cash for a 90D and don't need the space of a S I would suggest waiting another 12 months for the performance 3 to reach UK shores.
I been trying to decide if we can replace our X with a perfomance Model 3, but as much as I want a fast car to throw around B roads instead of a 2.5 ton 6 seater SUV family duties come first so the X will stay....but the Model 3 will almost be a like to like replacemnt for my wifes Lexus IS300H, the hard bit now is trying to convince my wife she needs the performance version of the 3 instead of the just the regular version
.Edited by gangzoom on Tuesday 24th July 19:00
jjwilde said:
LunarOne said:
The Tesla's torque makes it compelling at first, but I found I got bored of the crazy acceleration. It just lacks the visceral feel of the Boxster, which if you have the Sport Chrono option and the PSE sports exhaust makes an absolutely glorious noise.
For me the noise cars make is embarrassing. I like the silent acceleration, it's probably a generational thing with older people liking the loud noise etc. because it's what they grew up liking I guess.Whenever a loud car goes past in the street whenever I'm with friends people just say 'w
ker'. I don't want to be that guy in that car!But I sort of agree, an overloud car is an embarrassment. Interestingly there are many ICE cars which have similar or lowers internal noise levels as the Tesla S at normal cruising speeds.
raspy said:
What about the issues with what happens after a collision? i.e. the stories from Tesla owners of extremely long waits for parts following an accident
This can be a problem for sure. Supposedly they are working on it but it needs serious attention. The delays are often for routine things like bumpers which really shouldn’t be a problem.On a more general point, the “Back Office” at Tesla can be poor. The staff do their best and are extremely willing but the basic infrastructure doesn’t seem to be there.
REALIST123 said:
Europe is legislating that EVs have audible warning of their approach. Beep-beep -beep......Now that’s embarrassing!
But I sort of agree, an overloud car is an embarrassment. Interestingly there are many ICE cars which have similar or lowers internal noise levels as the Tesla S at normal cruising speeds.
I hope it’s a level playing field for the beep beep, my Lexus hybrid was silent at low speeds and presented just as much threat to the pedestrian as an EV would. But I sort of agree, an overloud car is an embarrassment. Interestingly there are many ICE cars which have similar or lowers internal noise levels as the Tesla S at normal cruising speeds.
PixelpeepS3 said:
Will do a proper write up tomorrow and i ended up driving a new 75d (which is the same price new as the used P90) but in a nutshell
it was fking awesome - god only knows what the P90 feels like but i don't think it would be £40k better...
Ha ha why am I not surprised! The new car will also be better put together than the old and if you use a referral code (happy to give you mine) you’ll get free Supercharging. Is the P90D AP1? Obviously the new car will be AP2.5 and for my money it would be a no brainer which to go for. it was f
king awesome - god only knows what the P90 feels like but i don't think it would be £40k better...PixelpeepS3 said:
Will do a proper write up tomorrow and i ended up driving a new 75d (which is the same price new as the used P90) but in a nutshell
it was fking awesome - god only knows what the P90 feels like but i don't think it would be £40k better...
Now imagine that drivetrain in a car some 500 lighter and shorter wheelbase, the Performance Model 3 is going to be insane!!it was f
king awesome - god only knows what the P90 feels like but i don't think it would be £40k better...Edited by gangzoom on Tuesday 24th July 22:29
The performance models use some fancy gold plated electronics to deliver the extra current don't they? Does that make any component changes out of warranty eye-wateringly expensive (or Insane!!! as Gangzoom puts it 
).
I assume the same will apply for the Model 3 P??? version when it shows up.
Anyway, sounds like the test drive went well. I'm assuming you'll have an empty bank account and shiny Tesla on the drive soon?
).I assume the same will apply for the Model 3 P??? version when it shows up.
Anyway, sounds like the test drive went well. I'm assuming you'll have an empty bank account and shiny Tesla on the drive soon?
Congratulations! ‘Once driven forever smitten’, as a Peugeot slogan used to go. I drove a model S100D at the start of the year. Had no intention of buying one and ended up buying........a model S100D. 2 months in am definitely not bored, and I have had Lotus, Porsche, Maserati. I still have a Porsche 968, but it hardly gets used; even going to Goodwood FoS the Tesla was an easy choice to take. It does actually handle reasonably too, with a bit of gentle RWD bias if you get enthusiastic!
I did find the buying process the hardest part; I am a bit tight and don’t really like car finance, even at Tesla rates, which made trying to get a car from Tesla at a sensible price challenging. Tesla do not do used well as I am sure you have found, they want you to buy new or new inventory. Their used cars do cycle up and down in price about twice a month though, so it is worth watching closely if that is where you are buying. Some independents are good, I spoke to R Symons and Hill Moren, but ended up with a super low mileage 100 in the spec and colour I wanted from another source for just a bit more than your budget.
Take your time looking, don’t compromise, and then when you see what you want go for it, the best specs do move fast!
I did find the buying process the hardest part; I am a bit tight and don’t really like car finance, even at Tesla rates, which made trying to get a car from Tesla at a sensible price challenging. Tesla do not do used well as I am sure you have found, they want you to buy new or new inventory. Their used cars do cycle up and down in price about twice a month though, so it is worth watching closely if that is where you are buying. Some independents are good, I spoke to R Symons and Hill Moren, but ended up with a super low mileage 100 in the spec and colour I wanted from another source for just a bit more than your budget.
Take your time looking, don’t compromise, and then when you see what you want go for it, the best specs do move fast!
I have learnt from past mistakes, bought a 335i when I could have afforded a M3, than wasted £15k on mods trying to turn the 335i into a M3 
.
AWD Model 3 is better value, its $4k more than base versus another $9k for the Performance version. But optioned up the Performance version is still cheaper than our base X. So if the OP is looking to spend used P90D money the Performance 3 is better value if driving fun is top priority.
If we didn't need the space of the X I would traded it in for a Perfomance 3 in a heart beat. When it finally arrives in the UK I doubt your find a faster B road car, 500bhp, AWD, instant EV torque, size of a 3 series and barely 100kg more in weight, infact I doubt even a 1000cc sportsbike would be able keep up once the roads got twisty.
Infact looking at the new C63, 1800kg, 500bhp, 9 speed auto I doubt your get much change from £80K once you add in some options, but 0.5 second slower to 60, and will cost you close £100 per tank of fuel versus £5 in the Model 3, seems pretty pointless in comparison.
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-driven/mercede...
.AWD Model 3 is better value, its $4k more than base versus another $9k for the Performance version. But optioned up the Performance version is still cheaper than our base X. So if the OP is looking to spend used P90D money the Performance 3 is better value if driving fun is top priority.
If we didn't need the space of the X I would traded it in for a Perfomance 3 in a heart beat. When it finally arrives in the UK I doubt your find a faster B road car, 500bhp, AWD, instant EV torque, size of a 3 series and barely 100kg more in weight, infact I doubt even a 1000cc sportsbike would be able keep up once the roads got twisty.
Infact looking at the new C63, 1800kg, 500bhp, 9 speed auto I doubt your get much change from £80K once you add in some options, but 0.5 second slower to 60, and will cost you close £100 per tank of fuel versus £5 in the Model 3, seems pretty pointless in comparison.
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-driven/mercede...
Edited by gangzoom on Wednesday 25th July 07:06
Warning - i appear to have lost myself a little in this update so please forgive me for rambling on..
So, recap. I was interested in a used (2015 with 25k miles) P90D but wanted to drive one first, obviously..
So we book a test drive with Tesla in Cambridge which was a) a complete bh to get there and b) the oddest thing ever having a car dealership inside a shopping centre..
To be fair it was a nice shopping centre, very posh but anyway..
From the outset i knew the experience was going to be different. There were two 'booths' either side of the reception desk and one had a sign up, all logo'd up etc with the words "Welcome to your test drive" with my name on it, nice touch.
We were offered a drink, i asked for water, i got it in a complimentary glass water holder with a screw cap.. nice..
He suggests we go straight out, fine with that, its what i am here for... we walk through John Lewis and out their staff exit into the depths of underground shopping centre stuff. Just as we come round to an opening with a beam of natural light we notice a rather classy black number pulling up.
One of the guys from the shop had brought the car round, already chilled inside. Again, nice touch.
It's an 18 plate 75d.. i was hoping for a Performance model, oh well.. give it a chance..
The salesman, great guy, very knowledgeable, no pressure pitch but when i explain we are looking at a used P90 (even though its direct from tesla) the salesman starts to try and steer the conversation to a new 75d which is the same money.
I ask him outright, do you get commission on used stock sales that tesla hold? - No he said. I just wanted to understand if there was an underlying reason for the new car steer.
On with the test drive - He drives until we are out of the congested city centre - i was a bit relieved he did as for some reason i was nervous about driving this car. Whilst driving he starts telling me how much stuff that used to be optional is now included in the base price, even with the entry level 75d. Air suspension, full glass roof, heated electric leather memory seats.
Then we get on to the autopilot. (a £4500 option which the car already has all the hardware to do, its just an option which is enabled over air)
AP2 uses 8 cameras, the original autopilot (AP1) only used 4 cameras so the hardware for AP2 is drastically different. Again, i'm thinking... "OK, i understand why you are trying to convince me the new 75d with AP2 will hold its money better than the p90 with AP1 i am considering..." its because he wants to make a sale.
I then go into "i am going to level with you" mode, which as i was saying the words made me feel a bit of a knob.. I say.
"problem is, i am a petrol head, the p90 has ludicrous mode, the 0-60 is 3.1 - my heart is telling me that is the one i should go for..."
Logically, in every way other than the 0-60 (and a bit of range) the new 75D with facelift, AP2, full 8 year warranty on batteries etc is the sensible choice by a country mile. Mrs Peep is in the back of the car and i don't even need to look at her to know she will be frustrated that i am considering spending a lot of money on 'the wrong car' - especially as she's not a lover of going fast
salesman returns with "the 75d now does 0-60 in 4.1" its only a second difference, you won't feel it" this irritates me because only a second when something is just 4 seconds makes it 25% faster to 60.. which you WOULD feel. I correct him, because i couldn't let it go, but then i relax a bit and say "i'm sure 4.1 feels plenty fast enough, i'll reserve judgement until i have a go"
We pull over in a lay-by where we swap over. Before we go anywhere he explains some of the features and whats new, whats been added etc.
One thing i love (among others) is the nav. As a demo he put in an address in France. It calculated the route, including all the supercharger points that we would need along the route. It tells you how many charging points are available and how many in total (this is live data) so you know if you'll have to queue or not. it also tells you what facilities are available at each charging point (what to eat, what to do, where to rest etc etc) Finally it calculates journey time based on these stops and how long the car will be charging for.
This took around 35 seconds. Which, IMO, is amazing.
My time to drive. Stop talking man and let me see if this is going to give me an automotive erection.
I am still nervous pulling out from the lay-by.. regen brakes are very similar to the i3 but better, easier to judge and smoother. Actual brakes not that impressed with the initial feel, first bit of the pedal is not smooth, it was a struggle to come to a pleasant stop between 10-0mph.
We get out onto the main road and i drive like i am on my test. First impressions. this car is very smooth, feels classy and sure footed. this is a nice place to be. I am trying to hide the smile which is creeping out .. POKER FACE!! i remind myself; but its too late.. the childish grin is out there for everyone to see. I am wearing my financial heart on my sleeve, i am almost willing the salesman to take my money and i haven't even put my foot down yet.
We get to a long straight empty piece of road, salesman encourages me to come to a stop to test the launch.
I look in the rear view, ask the other half if she's 'ready' ..
ummmm, Yeehhh came the not as confident as i would have liked reply.
I grip the wheel with both hands, look long down the road ahead and mash the throttle.
in the blink of an eye we hit 70, the push back in the seat is almost painful, you are desperately trying to pull yourself forward to keep full control of the wheel. The car felt a bit skittish under hard acceleration, i don't know if it was the camber of the road but it needed what seemed like a fair bit of correction to keep it thundering in a straight line.
I fully accept that it was first time launching it and much of it must have been down to me not being prepared for how viscous it seemed.
as the test drive continues i start to be a bit braver, giving the throttle a little nudge when coming off a roundabout. It felt solid, planted and inspired confidence that it had 'a lot more to give' than just straight line launches. I drive all the way back to the dealership, now feeling like i'd been driving this car for years.
We get out and go round the car, i look at the boot.. it is absolutely massive! - then he lifts up the floor to reveal a further compartment which must have gone down another foot... seriously good storage!
Frunk (front trunk) is also a decent size, considering it's extra to the rear storage.
We go inside and do the numbers. finance is offered at 2.4% on new and 4.x on used so again, its shouting at me; "THE 75 IS THE RIGHT CHOICE" i feel the 4 year PCP and GFV would stand me in good sted to chop it in for a Performance model 3 when they eventually get to the UK.
Things i like:
-Look
-feel
-performance (it's quicker than my S3 and 'free' to run!)
-tech
-storage (inside and out)
-free supercharging (a great feeling of freedom - especially with the nav that automatically plans in the stops if required)
things i don't like:
-there is a £310 per year 'surcharge' from the government on the road tax as the car is over £40k (which would be free otherwise) and the salesman didn't mention this, even after we had a short conversation on how i thought the £140 VED on the range extender i3 was a piss take.
-Salesman quoted the BHP equivalent on the 75d as "600 and something" when it is in actual fact 391
-Salesman quoted '155' as the top speed, which according to the internet is actually 140mph
-it doesn't have ludicrous mode
-i can't afford a new P100D (they don't make the 90 any more)
None of the things i don't like would stop me buying the car. 4.1 to 60, max of 140 is more than respectable. It's not tesla's fault me and the missus don't earn more money and it's the Government that are the robbing thieving bds with the VED.
Summary - I am waiting on the sale of a house which is going through right now so i can put a large deposit down. If this had happened prior to the test drive i would be looking at an order conformation already lol.
So, i'm sold. Will be looking at ordering middle of August or earlier hopefully then September delivery for a new plate 75d (which i will get debadged lol)
Pics...
So, recap. I was interested in a used (2015 with 25k miles) P90D but wanted to drive one first, obviously..
So we book a test drive with Tesla in Cambridge which was a) a complete b
h to get there and b) the oddest thing ever having a car dealership inside a shopping centre.. To be fair it was a nice shopping centre, very posh but anyway..
From the outset i knew the experience was going to be different. There were two 'booths' either side of the reception desk and one had a sign up, all logo'd up etc with the words "Welcome to your test drive" with my name on it, nice touch.
We were offered a drink, i asked for water, i got it in a complimentary glass water holder with a screw cap.. nice..
He suggests we go straight out, fine with that, its what i am here for... we walk through John Lewis and out their staff exit into the depths of underground shopping centre stuff. Just as we come round to an opening with a beam of natural light we notice a rather classy black number pulling up.
One of the guys from the shop had brought the car round, already chilled inside. Again, nice touch.
It's an 18 plate 75d.. i was hoping for a Performance model, oh well.. give it a chance..
The salesman, great guy, very knowledgeable, no pressure pitch but when i explain we are looking at a used P90 (even though its direct from tesla) the salesman starts to try and steer the conversation to a new 75d which is the same money.
I ask him outright, do you get commission on used stock sales that tesla hold? - No he said. I just wanted to understand if there was an underlying reason for the new car steer.
On with the test drive - He drives until we are out of the congested city centre - i was a bit relieved he did as for some reason i was nervous about driving this car. Whilst driving he starts telling me how much stuff that used to be optional is now included in the base price, even with the entry level 75d. Air suspension, full glass roof, heated electric leather memory seats.
Then we get on to the autopilot. (a £4500 option which the car already has all the hardware to do, its just an option which is enabled over air)
AP2 uses 8 cameras, the original autopilot (AP1) only used 4 cameras so the hardware for AP2 is drastically different. Again, i'm thinking... "OK, i understand why you are trying to convince me the new 75d with AP2 will hold its money better than the p90 with AP1 i am considering..." its because he wants to make a sale.
I then go into "i am going to level with you" mode, which as i was saying the words made me feel a bit of a knob.. I say.
"problem is, i am a petrol head, the p90 has ludicrous mode, the 0-60 is 3.1 - my heart is telling me that is the one i should go for..."
Logically, in every way other than the 0-60 (and a bit of range) the new 75D with facelift, AP2, full 8 year warranty on batteries etc is the sensible choice by a country mile. Mrs Peep is in the back of the car and i don't even need to look at her to know she will be frustrated that i am considering spending a lot of money on 'the wrong car' - especially as she's not a lover of going fast
salesman returns with "the 75d now does 0-60 in 4.1" its only a second difference, you won't feel it" this irritates me because only a second when something is just 4 seconds makes it 25% faster to 60.. which you WOULD feel. I correct him, because i couldn't let it go, but then i relax a bit and say "i'm sure 4.1 feels plenty fast enough, i'll reserve judgement until i have a go"
We pull over in a lay-by where we swap over. Before we go anywhere he explains some of the features and whats new, whats been added etc.
One thing i love (among others) is the nav. As a demo he put in an address in France. It calculated the route, including all the supercharger points that we would need along the route. It tells you how many charging points are available and how many in total (this is live data) so you know if you'll have to queue or not. it also tells you what facilities are available at each charging point (what to eat, what to do, where to rest etc etc) Finally it calculates journey time based on these stops and how long the car will be charging for.
This took around 35 seconds. Which, IMO, is amazing.
My time to drive. Stop talking man and let me see if this is going to give me an automotive erection.
I am still nervous pulling out from the lay-by.. regen brakes are very similar to the i3 but better, easier to judge and smoother. Actual brakes not that impressed with the initial feel, first bit of the pedal is not smooth, it was a struggle to come to a pleasant stop between 10-0mph.
We get out onto the main road and i drive like i am on my test. First impressions. this car is very smooth, feels classy and sure footed. this is a nice place to be. I am trying to hide the smile which is creeping out .. POKER FACE!! i remind myself; but its too late.. the childish grin is out there for everyone to see. I am wearing my financial heart on my sleeve, i am almost willing the salesman to take my money and i haven't even put my foot down yet.
We get to a long straight empty piece of road, salesman encourages me to come to a stop to test the launch.
I look in the rear view, ask the other half if she's 'ready' ..
ummmm, Yeehhh came the not as confident as i would have liked reply.
I grip the wheel with both hands, look long down the road ahead and mash the throttle.
in the blink of an eye we hit 70, the push back in the seat is almost painful, you are desperately trying to pull yourself forward to keep full control of the wheel. The car felt a bit skittish under hard acceleration, i don't know if it was the camber of the road but it needed what seemed like a fair bit of correction to keep it thundering in a straight line.
I fully accept that it was first time launching it and much of it must have been down to me not being prepared for how viscous it seemed.
as the test drive continues i start to be a bit braver, giving the throttle a little nudge when coming off a roundabout. It felt solid, planted and inspired confidence that it had 'a lot more to give' than just straight line launches. I drive all the way back to the dealership, now feeling like i'd been driving this car for years.
We get out and go round the car, i look at the boot.. it is absolutely massive! - then he lifts up the floor to reveal a further compartment which must have gone down another foot... seriously good storage!
Frunk (front trunk) is also a decent size, considering it's extra to the rear storage.
We go inside and do the numbers. finance is offered at 2.4% on new and 4.x on used so again, its shouting at me; "THE 75 IS THE RIGHT CHOICE" i feel the 4 year PCP and GFV would stand me in good sted to chop it in for a Performance model 3 when they eventually get to the UK.
Things i like:
-Look
-feel
-performance (it's quicker than my S3 and 'free' to run!)
-tech
-storage (inside and out)
-free supercharging (a great feeling of freedom - especially with the nav that automatically plans in the stops if required)
things i don't like:
-there is a £310 per year 'surcharge' from the government on the road tax as the car is over £40k (which would be free otherwise) and the salesman didn't mention this, even after we had a short conversation on how i thought the £140 VED on the range extender i3 was a piss take.
-Salesman quoted the BHP equivalent on the 75d as "600 and something" when it is in actual fact 391
-Salesman quoted '155' as the top speed, which according to the internet is actually 140mph
-it doesn't have ludicrous mode
-i can't afford a new P100D (they don't make the 90 any more)
None of the things i don't like would stop me buying the car. 4.1 to 60, max of 140 is more than respectable. It's not tesla's fault me and the missus don't earn more money and it's the Government that are the robbing thieving b
ds with the VED.Summary - I am waiting on the sale of a house which is going through right now so i can put a large deposit down. If this had happened prior to the test drive i would be looking at an order conformation already lol.
So, i'm sold. Will be looking at ordering middle of August or earlier hopefully then September delivery for a new plate 75d (which i will get debadged lol)
Pics...
Edited by PixelpeepS3 on Wednesday 25th July 11:10
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