Electric cars are bad for the environment
Discussion
Tell me I'm wrong?
First, you need to build a new car. This creates loads of pollution. A loaded up Land Rover Discovery makes 35 tonnes of CO2. (Cant find any specific for an electric car)
We can assume that an electric car is about the same (lots of wires and motors to make) then add in a battery. Your average 100 kWh battery makes around 17.5 tonnes of C02 to produce.
So an electric car is sat at 52.5 tonnes of C02 before you even cover a mile.
Take a petrol car that does 21.6 miles per gallon and covers 11,400 miles per year. this will produce 4.7 tonnes of C02.
So that means, a gas guzzler will still take 42,000 miles just to break even on the battery of an electric car alone. And lets not forget, charging these batterys isnt free of C02 either.
Take a car that averages 42 MPG and its 84,000 miles to break even on the battery alone. Excluding charging C02 and the rest of the car.
Now, the longevity argumet. An electric car will go on and on with very few servicable components. We dont yet know how the regeniritive breaking will fair over time, but lets assume it will never go wrong. The battery however, will degrade over time / usage.
A 10 year old Tesla that has seen 10 winters and summers is not likly to have the same range or effishancy. Arguabley, nither will a petrol engined car. But rebuilding an engine produces very little C02 in parts, verses another 17 tonnes of C02 in batterys. not to mention the costs.
So why on earth are electric cars being pushed as the solution to polution, whare as at best, all they do is move the place that some polution is created. It all seems a bit smoke and mirrors, offering a diversion, or profitable tactic rather than looking to solve the problem.
First, you need to build a new car. This creates loads of pollution. A loaded up Land Rover Discovery makes 35 tonnes of CO2. (Cant find any specific for an electric car)
We can assume that an electric car is about the same (lots of wires and motors to make) then add in a battery. Your average 100 kWh battery makes around 17.5 tonnes of C02 to produce.
So an electric car is sat at 52.5 tonnes of C02 before you even cover a mile.
Take a petrol car that does 21.6 miles per gallon and covers 11,400 miles per year. this will produce 4.7 tonnes of C02.
So that means, a gas guzzler will still take 42,000 miles just to break even on the battery of an electric car alone. And lets not forget, charging these batterys isnt free of C02 either.
Take a car that averages 42 MPG and its 84,000 miles to break even on the battery alone. Excluding charging C02 and the rest of the car.
Now, the longevity argumet. An electric car will go on and on with very few servicable components. We dont yet know how the regeniritive breaking will fair over time, but lets assume it will never go wrong. The battery however, will degrade over time / usage.
A 10 year old Tesla that has seen 10 winters and summers is not likly to have the same range or effishancy. Arguabley, nither will a petrol engined car. But rebuilding an engine produces very little C02 in parts, verses another 17 tonnes of C02 in batterys. not to mention the costs.
So why on earth are electric cars being pushed as the solution to polution, whare as at best, all they do is move the place that some polution is created. It all seems a bit smoke and mirrors, offering a diversion, or profitable tactic rather than looking to solve the problem.
I'll take a stab in the dark here and guess you don't like the idea of electric cars?
Not quite sure where the logic that adding the co2 amount to build a 100kWh battery to the co2 to build an entire Discovery gives you a figure for an EV? You do know that the engine, fueltank and gearbox etc of the Disco not needed by an EV will produce co2 when made?
I've been wondering if an Evora 400, 997.2 or 991 C4S is a better retirement car so don't for a second think I think EVs are the perfect answer.
Not quite sure where the logic that adding the co2 amount to build a 100kWh battery to the co2 to build an entire Discovery gives you a figure for an EV? You do know that the engine, fueltank and gearbox etc of the Disco not needed by an EV will produce co2 when made?
I've been wondering if an Evora 400, 997.2 or 991 C4S is a better retirement car so don't for a second think I think EVs are the perfect answer.
It has been known for years - the biggest environmental impact of a car is the manufacture and then the death / recycling...
so actually you are better off driving older cars, not new ones...
yet people want new and toys and shiny and etc. etc.
in reality people aren't all that bothered by the environment personal greed / politics / local environment / being voted in again / profit / etc. all take priority...
so actually you are better off driving older cars, not new ones...
yet people want new and toys and shiny and etc. etc.
in reality people aren't all that bothered by the environment personal greed / politics / local environment / being voted in again / profit / etc. all take priority...
Toltec said:
I'll take a stab in the dark here and guess you don't like the idea of electric cars?
Not quite sure where the logic that adding the co2 amount to build a 100kWh battery to the co2 to build an entire Discovery gives you a figure for an EV? You do know that the engine, fueltank and gearbox etc of the Disco not needed by an EV will produce co2 when made?
I've been wondering if an Evora 400, 997.2 or 991 C4S is a better retirement car so don't for a second think I think EVs are the perfect answer.
I quite like the idea of electric. I have been looking at a used Nissan Leaf. I'm not buying it for the environment though, just the running costs. £80 a month battery rental costs killed that one before it even started though. I only do marginally more than that in petrol.Not quite sure where the logic that adding the co2 amount to build a 100kWh battery to the co2 to build an entire Discovery gives you a figure for an EV? You do know that the engine, fueltank and gearbox etc of the Disco not needed by an EV will produce co2 when made?
I've been wondering if an Evora 400, 997.2 or 991 C4S is a better retirement car so don't for a second think I think EVs are the perfect answer.
If you want to exclude the car production C02 costs then please do. I chose a Range rover because the info can be clearly found and it is similarly complex to a Tesla., with its massive infotainment
SHutchinson said:
sjg said:
Why do you think an engine can be rebuilt but a battery pack can't?
Because it doesn't fit with his narrative.I do wonder if electric cars will be come the new smoking is bad for you in 30 years, like in the 40s everybody smoked and thought it was OK then cancer started killing people, will electric cars be slowly frying peoples brains with radiation because they're sat on top of a big lithium battery but nobody will say anything for 30 years until kids are being born with 3 ears and no a
hole
holePrizam said:
Because you cant. Well.. you can, but its a bit "Triggers broom". the parts you replace are the cells. these are the bits that are expensive and cause the pollution. So whilst the shell is reusable, the rest isn't.
The battery is made of hundreds or thousands of individual cells, normally groups into packs or modules. Some cells will degrade faster than others. Thus they can be taken apart, tested and failing ones replaced. Cars will always get damaged and written off, so there'll be a supply of fresh cells and modules to use for rebuilding others.There's a small but growing market for it, mostly Prius battery packs right now. A small proportion do fail at big mileages, and there's enough old Prius about (plenty as minicabs) to make it worth doing. Lots of batteries just get scavenged for projects like DIY EVs or home powerwalls.
hutchst said:
How do you weigh CO2?
Do you not freeze it then weigh it. It'll contain the same amount of molecules and hence stuff regardless of state so it'll weigh the same but just take up loads more space as a gas.
You can probably work out the weight from the amount and the atomic number as well.
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