Need some help from the EV owning cult
Discussion
I currently own 2 cars: BMW M3 Comp Pack (fun car) and BMW 535d M Sport (sensible car). My 5 series is the daily commute car that takes me from Windsor to London each day (70 miles in total with 50 spent on motorway @ average speed of say 50mph and 20 in London stop start traffic). This car is frankly brilliant returning 40mpg on average even with the central London traffic and supreme comfort and effortless driving. I will miss these qualities for sure. The time has come for the 5 series to be changed for something more London friendly (congestion charge free, low emissions, better mpg etc). I will be driving a few cars this weekend:
- BMW i3 94ah (not a range extender)
- VW GTE (Mk 7.5)
On the one hand I am thinking that the GTE would be a good bridge into the EV world and be more practical and comfortable than the i3 (I could run on petrol on the motorway and then electric in London), but on the other hand I feel like I should just bite the bullet and go for a proper EV. My daily mileage falls within the range of these cars quite easily now. I do not want a big car for London (Outlander, Tesla scratched off the list), I do not like the look of the IONIQ and the Zoe is just too small. I have asked my local VW dealer about the the e-Golf, but that is currently not available to demo - probably worth the wait??
Would be interested to get views from people who do similar commutes, have experienced both of the above mentioned cars as well as thoughts on what residual values will be like for pure EV cars (given the rapid rate of development). I expect to change the car at the 2yr point. Also wondering if I like the i3 and want to be more EV biased, should I just get an older i3 range extender for almost half the cost (£18-20k) and run it for a couple of years until the next big leap in technology?
I have no problems with charging at home, can get a proper charger installed in the garage. So the car will always have a full charge every morning.
- BMW i3 94ah (not a range extender)
- VW GTE (Mk 7.5)
On the one hand I am thinking that the GTE would be a good bridge into the EV world and be more practical and comfortable than the i3 (I could run on petrol on the motorway and then electric in London), but on the other hand I feel like I should just bite the bullet and go for a proper EV. My daily mileage falls within the range of these cars quite easily now. I do not want a big car for London (Outlander, Tesla scratched off the list), I do not like the look of the IONIQ and the Zoe is just too small. I have asked my local VW dealer about the the e-Golf, but that is currently not available to demo - probably worth the wait??
Would be interested to get views from people who do similar commutes, have experienced both of the above mentioned cars as well as thoughts on what residual values will be like for pure EV cars (given the rapid rate of development). I expect to change the car at the 2yr point. Also wondering if I like the i3 and want to be more EV biased, should I just get an older i3 range extender for almost half the cost (£18-20k) and run it for a couple of years until the next big leap in technology?
I have no problems with charging at home, can get a proper charger installed in the garage. So the car will always have a full charge every morning.
Edited by Shuks76 on Friday 11th August 09:57
I test drove the Golf GTE a month or so ago (VW Edinburgh) and I was really impressed.
It's a lovely car to drive. I've been test driving a few hybrids and full electric cars recently and I found the Golf GTE to be an enjoyable car, decent acceleration, comfortable and with the usual options of full / part / charge.
If it's a company car, it's great for BIK tax and if it's not then the economy will make sense compared to the 535d.
It's a lovely car to drive. I've been test driving a few hybrids and full electric cars recently and I found the Golf GTE to be an enjoyable car, decent acceleration, comfortable and with the usual options of full / part / charge.
If it's a company car, it's great for BIK tax and if it's not then the economy will make sense compared to the 535d.
lost in espace said:
New Leaf with dodgy styling being delivered from 3/18, 200 mile range any good?
New Leaf might be an option depending on looks. The current design is just not for me, even though I am sure it is a very capable EV based on Youtube reviews. The only odd ball looking EV I seem to like is the i3. Shuks76 said:
lost in espace said:
New Leaf with dodgy styling being delivered from 3/18, 200 mile range any good?
New Leaf might be an option depending on looks. The current design is just not for me, even though I am sure it is a very capable EV based on Youtube reviews. The only odd ball looking EV I seem to like is the i3. dxg said:
Shuks76 said:
lost in espace said:
New Leaf with dodgy styling being delivered from 3/18, 200 mile range any good?
New Leaf might be an option depending on looks. The current design is just not for me, even though I am sure it is a very capable EV based on Youtube reviews. The only odd ball looking EV I seem to like is the i3. Well worth looking at the Leaf IMO, if you can get over the looks it could be a much cheaper option. Tekna spec is very comfortable with all the toys, current 30kw battery one will comfortably do the trip even with the heater blasting away in winter, and I can only see the (very good) current deals getting better as they clear out ready for the new model.
18k commuting miles a year means a PCP type deal may not be cheapest though. There are nearly-new Tekna 30kw advertised at £16500 (battery owned, free home charger install, 2 services inc). Run it for 5 years and it'll still be inside the (8 year / 100k) battery warranty. The very cheapest, battery lease Leafs are £5k now - let's be pessimistic and say it'll be worth £4k.
So £2500 a year depreciation, about 3p a mile (so £540 a year) in electric to fuel it. Cheap motoring, if you just regard it as a comfortable appliance to get the miles done.
Nissan will do 4-day test drives too if you want to try it out on your normal commute, even just to see what it's like in an EV rather than specific to the Leaf.
18k commuting miles a year means a PCP type deal may not be cheapest though. There are nearly-new Tekna 30kw advertised at £16500 (battery owned, free home charger install, 2 services inc). Run it for 5 years and it'll still be inside the (8 year / 100k) battery warranty. The very cheapest, battery lease Leafs are £5k now - let's be pessimistic and say it'll be worth £4k.
So £2500 a year depreciation, about 3p a mile (so £540 a year) in electric to fuel it. Cheap motoring, if you just regard it as a comfortable appliance to get the miles done.
Nissan will do 4-day test drives too if you want to try it out on your normal commute, even just to see what it's like in an EV rather than specific to the Leaf.
Edited by sjg on Friday 11th August 12:18
Getting my i3 next month. On the test drive, i found comfort fine. Not noticably worse than the mk7 golf my wife had. Its certainly not plush, but the one pedal driving and quietness adds to overall comfort/relaxation.
Some early reviews for the i3 mention poor comfort, but I am sure the suspension was changed when they released the 94ah version.
I have got the i3 to cover 23k miles a year. i will get a huge fuel saving... that i then spend on the fact that it is quite pricey in the first place!
Still, im looking forward to quick get aways, the silky smooth electric drive train and harmon kardon stereo. it really felt a massive leap forward from my leased 1.6tdi octavia, which has been excellent itself.
Some early reviews for the i3 mention poor comfort, but I am sure the suspension was changed when they released the 94ah version.
I have got the i3 to cover 23k miles a year. i will get a huge fuel saving... that i then spend on the fact that it is quite pricey in the first place!
Still, im looking forward to quick get aways, the silky smooth electric drive train and harmon kardon stereo. it really felt a massive leap forward from my leased 1.6tdi octavia, which has been excellent itself.
I'm presuming that you have charging at home so you don't need to worry about charge during the day.
I ran an i3 for a year, bought it very much after looking at the projected numbers on a spreadsheet. It was probably the most economical car I've owned if considering total cost of ownership.
I bought a 2 year old version (i.e. one of the very first ones), getting a 50% discount on the new cars. BMW had good finance offers on new cars so in reality a new car would have cost more but not twice as much. Mine had the remainder of a 10 year service package.
We swapped it for a non-EV when our circumstances changed and it didn't make sense. However, if I was doing it again I'd do the same, even with the longer-range cars available. If you look at the product roadmaps you'll see that in the next 24 months there are plenty of really interesting EVs which could be a single-car for many people. For me it still feels like early days. I expect my current car to be my last one without some form of alternative power train.
Personally with EVs and autonomous cars rapidly coming onto the market I wouldn't expect great resale values on any car - there's just too much risk of significant market disruption. In the FT this week it was reported that "in a recent KPMG survey, 59 per cent said “half of today’s car owners” will not want to own a car in 2025". Select on total cost of ownership and shift all the depreciation risk to the finance provider (even if it's just setting your expectation).
I ran an i3 for a year, bought it very much after looking at the projected numbers on a spreadsheet. It was probably the most economical car I've owned if considering total cost of ownership.
I bought a 2 year old version (i.e. one of the very first ones), getting a 50% discount on the new cars. BMW had good finance offers on new cars so in reality a new car would have cost more but not twice as much. Mine had the remainder of a 10 year service package.
We swapped it for a non-EV when our circumstances changed and it didn't make sense. However, if I was doing it again I'd do the same, even with the longer-range cars available. If you look at the product roadmaps you'll see that in the next 24 months there are plenty of really interesting EVs which could be a single-car for many people. For me it still feels like early days. I expect my current car to be my last one without some form of alternative power train.
Personally with EVs and autonomous cars rapidly coming onto the market I wouldn't expect great resale values on any car - there's just too much risk of significant market disruption. In the FT this week it was reported that "in a recent KPMG survey, 59 per cent said “half of today’s car owners” will not want to own a car in 2025". Select on total cost of ownership and shift all the depreciation risk to the finance provider (even if it's just setting your expectation).
chandrew said:
I'm presuming that you have charging at home so you don't need to worry about charge during the day.
I ran an i3 for a year, bought it very much after looking at the projected numbers on a spreadsheet. It was probably the most economical car I've owned if considering total cost of ownership.
I bought a 2 year old version (i.e. one of the very first ones), getting a 50% discount on the new cars. BMW had good finance offers on new cars so in reality a new car would have cost more but not twice as much. Mine had the remainder of a 10 year service package.
I have charging at home, no need to worry about charging during the day. Agree on buying based on total cost. What is interesting is that there seem to be some great deals to be had on the i3 REX, so not sure if there is any real economy in buying used for £20k or going new with low finance (1.3% APR) and discount. Will have to crunch some numbers once I know which way I am going to go. What do people think about the reliability in general of EVs that have had say 20-30k miles on the clock?I ran an i3 for a year, bought it very much after looking at the projected numbers on a spreadsheet. It was probably the most economical car I've owned if considering total cost of ownership.
I bought a 2 year old version (i.e. one of the very first ones), getting a 50% discount on the new cars. BMW had good finance offers on new cars so in reality a new car would have cost more but not twice as much. Mine had the remainder of a 10 year service package.
Shuks76 said:
What do people think about the reliability in general of EVs that have had say 20-30k miles on the clock?
My experience of the i3 is that it was good overall. We had software related glitches occasionally, but we've had the same with the 340i that replaced it. I've decided it's a BMW thing.There is less to go wrong with an EV. In fact I'd consider a high-mileage one in a good condition if it was accordingly priced. I suspect the market is too harsh on higher mileage EVs
My guess is that the ReX has good deals as the larger size BEV is probably good enough for most people. We had the original BEV and I only had worries on a couple of days.
it wasnt factored into my sums, but I would not be surprised if EV residuals improve as they become more mainstream and if taxes on diesel start to come in.
There is the argument that the tech will become obsolete, but Im not sure.
Model 3 wont be landing on our beaches for some time and it is still not the answer to those who are adamant they do 400 mile round trips all the time. The model 3 will probably 'fail' at as many journeys as the i3. Plus, surely a diesel will be far more obsolete in a few years.
There is the argument that the tech will become obsolete, but Im not sure.
Model 3 wont be landing on our beaches for some time and it is still not the answer to those who are adamant they do 400 mile round trips all the time. The model 3 will probably 'fail' at as many journeys as the i3. Plus, surely a diesel will be far more obsolete in a few years.
Edited by covmutley on Friday 11th August 16:53
Driven the i3 94ah and blown away by it. This little car is frankly unbelievable. Fast, composed and fun. I was a little concerned about the regen being something difficult to adjust to, but no issue. Jumped back into my M3 and still remembered to use the brake pedal. Some of the interior trim bits could do with a bit of an upgrade like the straw dash (I am sure they can find something better to look at that is lightweight) and the speedo screen is a little bit outdated for a car like this, but other than that awesome. Looks like the Frankfurt Motor show will showcase a facelift for the car with some upgrades on the inside and also an S model. Will be good to drive the GTE tomorrow and compare. Wish I had driven this car sooner.
Glad you liked it, I was the same. I have said on other threads that it felt digital on my test drive and made may rattly diesel feel analogue after. That is the best way I could describe it.
Did you notice how do spacious it feels due to the big windows?
I'm sure the gte will be good, but I really like that the i3 is designed ev from the outset. Using carbon is cool and it makes the cabin a special place even if a couple of the materials are slightly questionable.
Did you notice how do spacious it feels due to the big windows?
I'm sure the gte will be good, but I really like that the i3 is designed ev from the outset. Using carbon is cool and it makes the cabin a special place even if a couple of the materials are slightly questionable.
Edited by covmutley on Saturday 12th August 19:27
mybrainhurts said:
Chris-S said:
Oy, who you callin' a cult??? 
I know some can get a bit evangelical but I thought we were mostly fairly eyes-open types on here.
No, you're a right bunch of cults....I know some can get a bit evangelical but I thought we were mostly fairly eyes-open types on here.
OP you seem to have weighted the pros & cons, subject to a long test drive I would suggest go forit.
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