Tesla stopping unlimited Supercharging on new orders
Discussion
An Update to Our Supercharging Programme
All Teslas ordered after Jan 1st will get 400kWh of annual allowance via Superchargers, rest is billed.
All Teslas ordered after Jan 1st will get 400kWh of annual allowance via Superchargers, rest is billed.
Blaster72 said:
Seems reasonable to me
Why?Early cars had no SC and you paid a few grand to have unlimited SC access (the price equalled about 65k miles of driving based on domestic electricity pricing).
They then increased the price of their cars to include this.
They're now limiting it without changing the price.
They made a big thing about free SC for life as a USP and their SC network was a differentiator. If you end up paying the same as Ecotricity (they've said they're pricing against petrol, similar to ecotrcity), then the only advantage is they're a bit faster depending on state of charge and unless someone is already charging on the SC pair, but there's also a lot less of them.
I'm increasingly thinking my next car will not be a tesla, in part because they're still struggling with the basics like parts availability, the number of bugs each new version of software introduces, the build quality in the cabin etc, and the ever increasing prices, and partly because I expect the competition to be closer in 18 months time when I change.
JonV8V said:
Why?
Early cars had no SC and you paid a few grand to have unlimited SC access (the price equalled about 65k miles of driving based on domestic electricity pricing).
They then increased the price of their cars to include this.
They're now limiting it without changing the price.
They made a big thing about free SC for life as a USP and their SC network was a differentiator. If you end up paying the same as Ecotricity (they've said they're pricing against petrol, similar to ecotrcity), then the only advantage is they're a bit faster depending on state of charge and unless someone is already charging on the SC pair, but there's also a lot less of them.
I'm increasingly thinking my next car will not be a tesla, in part because they're still struggling with the basics like parts availability, the number of bugs each new version of software introduces, the build quality in the cabin etc, and the ever increasing prices, and partly because I expect the competition to be closer in 18 months time when I change.
Competition won't be any closer for another 5 years at least, if unlimited charging is a big deal for you just order in the next 2 months, if you don't understand why the SC network is such a big deal then you need to travel in America, thing is if you can afford a £100k car then most of the time you won't bother with SC stations, you will simply charge at home, spend those penniesEarly cars had no SC and you paid a few grand to have unlimited SC access (the price equalled about 65k miles of driving based on domestic electricity pricing).
They then increased the price of their cars to include this.
They're now limiting it without changing the price.
They made a big thing about free SC for life as a USP and their SC network was a differentiator. If you end up paying the same as Ecotricity (they've said they're pricing against petrol, similar to ecotrcity), then the only advantage is they're a bit faster depending on state of charge and unless someone is already charging on the SC pair, but there's also a lot less of them.
I'm increasingly thinking my next car will not be a tesla, in part because they're still struggling with the basics like parts availability, the number of bugs each new version of software introduces, the build quality in the cabin etc, and the ever increasing prices, and partly because I expect the competition to be closer in 18 months time when I change.
babatunde said:
Competition won't be any closer for another 5 years at least, if unlimited charging is a big deal for you just order in the next 2 months, if you don't understand why the SC network is such a big deal then you need to travel in America, thing is if you can afford a £100k car then most of the time you won't bother with SC stations, you will simply charge at home, spend those pennies
I have a car, I dont need to order.Teslas issue is they promised and then didn't deliver and are making future owners pay by limiting the feature. They were trying to change the way people see cars, this is regressive. I have done 30k miles in my car in 11 months, charging at home is not always an option as I'm often away. Owners have been demanding more investment at locations like Barnsley, Leeds and warrington and the tesla response, we'll curb future demand by limiting it. That's old school thinking.
And when you say the competition is 5 years away, depends what you want. The tax breaks on EV are disappearing fast, the fueling benefits are disappearing fast, newer hybrids are delivering great compromise between the technologies - the platform under the new nsx will be in cars soon.
JonV8V said:
Blaster72 said:
Seems reasonable to me
Why?Early cars had no SC and you paid a few grand to have unlimited SC access (the price equalled about 65k miles of driving based on domestic electricity pricing).
They then increased the price of their cars to include this.
They're now limiting it without changing the price.
They made a big thing about free SC for life as a USP and their SC network was a differentiator. If you end up paying the same as Ecotricity (they've said they're pricing against petrol, similar to ecotrcity), then the only advantage is they're a bit faster depending on state of charge and unless someone is already charging on the SC pair, but there's also a lot less of them.
I'm increasingly thinking my next car will not be a tesla, in part because they're still struggling with the basics like parts availability, the number of bugs each new version of software introduces, the build quality in the cabin etc, and the ever increasing prices, and partly because I expect the competition to be closer in 18 months time when I change.
Personally I don't see a problem with it and I'd suspect most people charge their Tesla at home or work with only occasional supercharger use unless they live or work right next to one. Seems like a sound business decision to me for Tesla to phase out the free use.
For people who only bought for the free charging I can see this would put them off changing up for a new model but for most it probably won't matter too much.
Blaster72 said:
It still is free for life for those who bought when that deal was available. Makes sense to me that as they knock out thousands more cars they can't realistically be expected to charge them all for free.
Personally I don't see a problem with it and I'd suspect most people charge their Tesla at home or work with only occasional supercharger use unless they live or work right next to one. Seems like a sound business decision to me for Tesla to phase out the free use.
For people who only bought for the free charging I can see this would put them off changing up for a new model but for most it probably won't matter too much.
Do you pay for your mobile phone by the min or is it all included? This was part of the Tesla ethos and £3k of your purchase price bought you all you can eat - so it was never free charging, it was inclusive charging. The convenience of just pulling up and plugging in, no stupid app or card. It might be fine to you, and it still is free /inclusive for existing owners, but for me, part of the appeal of Tesla doing things differently is going. Personally I don't see a problem with it and I'd suspect most people charge their Tesla at home or work with only occasional supercharger use unless they live or work right next to one. Seems like a sound business decision to me for Tesla to phase out the free use.
For people who only bought for the free charging I can see this would put them off changing up for a new model but for most it probably won't matter too much.
If you're happy to pay best part of £3k more for your car then carry on. This is a crass way of avoiding to put out more infrastructure and a stealth price hike
Edited by JonV8V on Tuesday 8th November 09:08
I wouldn't say anyone would be happy paying more for less, just can't see a problem with Tesla making a sound business decision.
The initial EV explosion would have been much slower if Tesla, Ecotricity et all hadn't given a whole heap of incentives to kick start it. It was never going to be and endless free for all.
If the numbers don't work anymore then sales will slow and Tesla will no doubt have to rethink but they are a business there to make money despite what they would like you to think about changing the world. They can't change the world and survive as a viable business if they don't keep on top of the finances.
Would this genuinely stop you from buying another Tesla or is it just another bad point on top of the problems you seem to have had with parts supply and software?
My mobile phone isn't really the same, I bought the phone and year on year change my contract to the best deal. With Tesla and the supercharger you bought the car and got free charging which you still have. New owners won't get such a good deal.
The initial EV explosion would have been much slower if Tesla, Ecotricity et all hadn't given a whole heap of incentives to kick start it. It was never going to be and endless free for all.
If the numbers don't work anymore then sales will slow and Tesla will no doubt have to rethink but they are a business there to make money despite what they would like you to think about changing the world. They can't change the world and survive as a viable business if they don't keep on top of the finances.
Would this genuinely stop you from buying another Tesla or is it just another bad point on top of the problems you seem to have had with parts supply and software?
My mobile phone isn't really the same, I bought the phone and year on year change my contract to the best deal. With Tesla and the supercharger you bought the car and got free charging which you still have. New owners won't get such a good deal.
JonV8V said:
They made a big thing about free SC for life as a USP
And, for the cars sold with that USP, it still is free for life.JonV8V said:
and their SC network was a differentiator.
It still is. They can only be used by Teslas.Sorry, were you expecting somebody else to pay for your fuel for the rest of your motoring life? Did you not think "Hmm, this might not be very long-term sustainable as electric cars become more mainstream"?
TooMany2cvs said:
It still is. They can only be used by Teslas.
Sorry, were you expecting somebody else to pay for your fuel for the rest of your motoring life? Did you not think "Hmm, this might not be very long-term sustainable as electric cars become more mainstream"?
You obviously don't know the history of tesla. SC was introduced as a 3k option (may have been 2k), they then rolled it into the price of the car. So it's not free as I've previously said, it's inclusive. They're now taking it away without dropping the price which makes it a stealth price rise on the car. Sorry, were you expecting somebody else to pay for your fuel for the rest of your motoring life? Did you not think "Hmm, this might not be very long-term sustainable as electric cars become more mainstream"?
If I said you free mobile phone calls were taken away, would you complain? Of course you would.
JonV8V said:
If I said you free mobile phone calls were taken away, would you complain? Of course you would.
Are you forgetting one thing?Stay with your current contract/phone(/car) you get the same deal you've always had.
Change to a new contract/phone(/car) then you have the new deal. In its entirety. And you know what it is before you sign.
TooMany2cvs said:
Are you forgetting one thing?
Stay with your current contract/phone(/car) you get the same deal you've always had.
Change to a new contract/phone(/car) then you have the new deal. In its entirety. And you know what it is before you sign.
I am aware of that. I actually have one. Have you even sat in one? Stay with your current contract/phone(/car) you get the same deal you've always had.
Change to a new contract/phone(/car) then you have the new deal. In its entirety. And you know what it is before you sign.
The SC network has had virtually no investment this year, tesla have an issue over capacity, rather than fix it spending all those £2-3k payments they're going to make new owners pay as they go. That's not going to solve the capacity problem at all.
TooMany2cvs said:
JonV8V said:
I am aware of that.
I'm glad we're in agreement, then. <group hug>You only appear to be in agreement on one, arguably irrelevant point.
The fact is Tesla are increasing their already, unjustifiably high to many potential buyers, prices by sneakily devaluing the product on offer. First the guaranteed buy back went; now this.
I realise that they need the cash but they also need more customers. Maybe they're putting their faith in the smaller car?
REALIST123 said:
The fact is Tesla are increasing their already, unjustifiably high to many potential buyers, prices by sneakily devaluing the product on offer. First the guaranteed buy back went; now this.
<shrug> So don't buy one.If you've already got one, then don't buy a replacement. If anything, this change will prop up the values of used ones with supercharger access.
REALIST123 said:
The fact is Tesla are increasing their already, unjustifiably high to many potential buyers, prices by sneakily devaluing the product on offer. First the guaranteed buy back went; now this.
I realise that they need the cash but they also need more customers. Maybe they're putting their faith in the smaller car?
Is that right? outrage
TooMany2cvs said:
<shrug> So don't buy one.
If you've already got one, then don't buy a replacement. If anything, this change will prop up the values of used ones with supercharger access.
Question, if you have free SC access and you sell the car, does the free SC access go with it, or is it limited to the first owner or something like that? Clearly, if it is non-transferable, then the free usage will tail off pretty quickly.If you've already got one, then don't buy a replacement. If anything, this change will prop up the values of used ones with supercharger access.
I'm a bit hazy on exact history, but I think the Model S once had variants with and without the capability to Supercharge. Paying the extra got you both the hardware and the unlimited Supercharger access. Then at some point all cars got the hardware, the higher-end models got Supercharger access thrown in, and the lower end ones it was an option and one you could enable later on if you wanted (although not a particularly good value one - it costs about 90k miles of electricity in the US). I'm guessing a good proportion of Telsa sales are to people who just pick the fastest/best one and don't care too much about the numbers. "Free" supercharging was a nice early adopter perk, and a good way to get those evangelist earlier owners using them for long trips and telling the world how straightforward it was to do longer road trips in a Tesla.
As there'd never been a way to deal with billing (seems getting stations rolled out was the priority) it made more sense to just do an unlimited deal, have the stations authenticate the car and give them as much power as they needed.
Supercharging has always been about enabling long-distance travel though, the intention being that regular day-to-day travel is within the range of the car and you charge it slowly at home and/or work when you're not using it. Tesla have written people in the past who made frequent use of the same local Superchargers. It doesn't make much sense to me to buy a Tesla then go out of your way (and wait around) for a "free" charge, but I guess it does to some people.
Now that the billing stuff is sorted out they can move to consumption-based use. For the people who wouldn't have paid the extra for unlimited supercharging, it should mean they can do the occasional long trip at a reasonable cost. People who have unlimited now will go on having it. Future owners who'd (ab)use the unlimited Supercharging might have to rethink.
As there'd never been a way to deal with billing (seems getting stations rolled out was the priority) it made more sense to just do an unlimited deal, have the stations authenticate the car and give them as much power as they needed.
Supercharging has always been about enabling long-distance travel though, the intention being that regular day-to-day travel is within the range of the car and you charge it slowly at home and/or work when you're not using it. Tesla have written people in the past who made frequent use of the same local Superchargers. It doesn't make much sense to me to buy a Tesla then go out of your way (and wait around) for a "free" charge, but I guess it does to some people.
Now that the billing stuff is sorted out they can move to consumption-based use. For the people who wouldn't have paid the extra for unlimited supercharging, it should mean they can do the occasional long trip at a reasonable cost. People who have unlimited now will go on having it. Future owners who'd (ab)use the unlimited Supercharging might have to rethink.
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