Tesla Model S 60
Discussion
So Tesla have launched the Model S with a 60 kWh option, and also either RWD for £53,400 or AWD (extra £4,400).
The 60 RWD has 248 mile range compared to the 90D's 346 mile range. I know that's claimed but assuming it's indicative then add the £7K range upgrade and you're up to 298 miles. Just 48 miles less than the 90D - and you've saved £21K on the 90D and you're 1.3 seconds slower to 60.
I can't see any other difference. Looks like a cracking deal.
The 60 RWD has 248 mile range compared to the 90D's 346 mile range. I know that's claimed but assuming it's indicative then add the £7K range upgrade and you're up to 298 miles. Just 48 miles less than the 90D - and you've saved £21K on the 90D and you're 1.3 seconds slower to 60.
I can't see any other difference. Looks like a cracking deal.
Yep, and the nice thing is the range upgrade is software and not hugely more expensive to do after you've bought the car. So you could buy a 60/60D, and if you find you genuinely need more range you can go and buy it at as later date - like adding a long range fuel tank, I guess.
By doing it through the software it will also allow dealers to stock one demonstrator car (a P90D most likely), and then through a Dealer-only software menu they can flick between 60/75/90 performance maps, to demonstrate how each car performs and feels, rather than stocking one of each model - brilliant!
By doing it through the software it will also allow dealers to stock one demonstrator car (a P90D most likely), and then through a Dealer-only software menu they can flick between 60/75/90 performance maps, to demonstrate how each car performs and feels, rather than stocking one of each model - brilliant!
With all lithium-ion batteries its advised NOT to charge to 100% to preserve battery life and all battery packs have built in 'buffers', so a 75kWh battery car will at most have 70kWh of 'usable' battery, and if charged up to 90% you'll have 63kWh of usable battery.
But new S60 essentially has a 75kwh battery which is software limited to 60kWh, no one is quite sure how Tesla have programed it, but intheroy you should be able to charge the new S60 to 100% every trip without fear of battery degradation, and potentially the 'usable' difference in battery capacity between the 60kWh car and a 75kWh may not be that different in real life.
Most Tesla's seem to average about 3 miles per kWh, so 60kWh should get you about 180miles of real life range, if Tesla has truly given the S60 60kWh of 'usable' battery. If Tesla have bricked more of the battery than necessary the real life could be as low as 150 miles. No one knows how Tesla have played this till the first S60 cars are delivered. The 245mile range is the equivalent of a diesel doing 70mpg in 'test conditions' but <50mpg in real life)
But new S60 essentially has a 75kwh battery which is software limited to 60kWh, no one is quite sure how Tesla have programed it, but intheroy you should be able to charge the new S60 to 100% every trip without fear of battery degradation, and potentially the 'usable' difference in battery capacity between the 60kWh car and a 75kWh may not be that different in real life.
Most Tesla's seem to average about 3 miles per kWh, so 60kWh should get you about 180miles of real life range, if Tesla has truly given the S60 60kWh of 'usable' battery. If Tesla have bricked more of the battery than necessary the real life could be as low as 150 miles. No one knows how Tesla have played this till the first S60 cars are delivered. The 245mile range is the equivalent of a diesel doing 70mpg in 'test conditions' but <50mpg in real life)
Edited by gangzoom on Thursday 16th June 15:07
I think this looks like potentially the most interesting model on the Model S range at the moment. When I was considering a Tesla I thought that I would need an 80D. Now, after a few months and decent mileage in the i3 I have realised that the longer range is probably unnecessary, or for me doesn't justify the big extra in price.
My perception of the issue with electric cars isn't the range but the density of fast charging. Stopping for 20 minutes every couple of hours seems like a pleasant way to travel (especially given how relaxing a quiet electric car can be). The issue seems not how long you can go without stopping, but if you can stop at your timing, rather than a timing dictated by the charging availability.
My perception of the issue with electric cars isn't the range but the density of fast charging. Stopping for 20 minutes every couple of hours seems like a pleasant way to travel (especially given how relaxing a quiet electric car can be). The issue seems not how long you can go without stopping, but if you can stop at your timing, rather than a timing dictated by the charging availability.
Am I the only one thinking that if the upgrade is just software updates, why don't they just do it for free to every new car?? Odd.
What do you guys think is going to happen to the Model S prices in 2 years when the Model 3 comes out for a significantly cheaper price?
Would I be daft buying the Model S 60 right now?
What do you guys think is going to happen to the Model S prices in 2 years when the Model 3 comes out for a significantly cheaper price?
Would I be daft buying the Model S 60 right now?
audi321 said:
Am I the only one thinking that if the upgrade is just software updates, why don't they just do it for free to every new car?? Odd.
What do you guys think is going to happen to the Model S prices in 2 years when the Model 3 comes out for a significantly cheaper price?
Would I be daft buying the Model S 60 right now?
The 3 will be better value, Tesla have said it will have 200miles range, and come in at under £30k. The S60 has just about 200 mile range for £50k. Equally the 3 will no doubt have autopilot 2.0 hardware built in (though your have to pay to activate it). So potentially in 2018 you could have a base spec 3 with better hardware than a 2016 S60 at nearly half the price. What do you guys think is going to happen to the Model S prices in 2 years when the Model 3 comes out for a significantly cheaper price?
Would I be daft buying the Model S 60 right now?
These cars ar currently like the early smartphones, every generation is going to be cheaper and better than the last, and by a fair margin. But as with all things tech, if you keep on waiting for the next best thing to come along your never buy anything at all.
I'll be looking to take delivery of another EV in early 2017, if Tesla have introduced autopilot 2.0 hardware by than I'll be tempted to by a new S60D (remember it's really just a software limited 75D). But if autopilot 2.0 isn't out, buying used will be much better value for money.
Edited by gangzoom on Friday 17th June 18:09
audi321 said:
Am I the only one thinking that if the upgrade is just software updates, why don't they just do it for free to every new car?? Odd.
What do you guys think is going to happen to the Model S prices in 2 years when the Model 3 comes out for a significantly cheaper price?
Would I be daft buying the Model S 60 right now?
The car with the bigger range costs more. This is the same car with a restriction to enable it to be sold as a cheaper variant..What do you guys think is going to happen to the Model S prices in 2 years when the Model 3 comes out for a significantly cheaper price?
Would I be daft buying the Model S 60 right now?
Unless manufacturing is running at 100% capacity then its actually cost effective to employ that unused capacity making the same product and selling it for less money than normal. Its economies of scale.
The beauty of this option is that you can upgrade later of you want.
Just been doing some digging.
The original Tesla S60 sold in the UK for £49,900 in 2014, but to get supercharger access, and various other options which are now standard you had to add about £4.5K in options. So the equivalent S60 in 2014 was £54K. But the £ was about 15% stronger against the dollar compared to now. So actually the original 2014, S60 in 2016 UK price would £62k!!!
This shows just how good 'value' the current S60 is compared to the just 2 years ago, given for £53K, you now get autopilot hardware, supercharger enabled, and a 75kWh battery rather than just a 60kWh battery for £10K LESS than what you would have paid in 2014.
I suspect in 2018 we will see a even bigger change interms of getting more stuff for your £. Tesla have said the S will always have more tech than the Model 3, given the Model 3 is going to have at least the same basic tech as the current S60, we can only assume Tesla have a whole load of upgrades coming in the next 24 months for the S.
The original Tesla S60 sold in the UK for £49,900 in 2014, but to get supercharger access, and various other options which are now standard you had to add about £4.5K in options. So the equivalent S60 in 2014 was £54K. But the £ was about 15% stronger against the dollar compared to now. So actually the original 2014, S60 in 2016 UK price would £62k!!!
This shows just how good 'value' the current S60 is compared to the just 2 years ago, given for £53K, you now get autopilot hardware, supercharger enabled, and a 75kWh battery rather than just a 60kWh battery for £10K LESS than what you would have paid in 2014.
I suspect in 2018 we will see a even bigger change interms of getting more stuff for your £. Tesla have said the S will always have more tech than the Model 3, given the Model 3 is going to have at least the same basic tech as the current S60, we can only assume Tesla have a whole load of upgrades coming in the next 24 months for the S.
gangzoom said:
The 3 will be better value, Tesla have said it will have 200miles range, and come in at under £30k. The S60 has just about 200 mile range for £50k. Equally the 3 will no doubt have autopilot 2.0 hardware built in (though your have to pay to activate it). So potentially in 2018 you could have a base spec 3 with better hardware than a 2016 S60 at nearly half the price.
These cars ar currently like the early smartphones, every generation is going to be cheaper and better than the last, and by a fair margin. But as with all things tech, if you keep on waiting for the next best thing to come along your never buy anything at all.
I'll be looking to take delivery of another EV in early 2017, if Tesla have introduced autopilot 2.0 hardware by than I'll be tempted to by a new S60D (remember it's really just a software limited 75D). But if autopilot 2.0 isn't out, buying used will be much better value for money.
You're confusing so much here. The S60 has a near 300 mile quoted range which is 50% more than the 3. An S60 real world is 190-200 so a M3 will be about 130-140 real world. These cars ar currently like the early smartphones, every generation is going to be cheaper and better than the last, and by a fair margin. But as with all things tech, if you keep on waiting for the next best thing to come along your never buy anything at all.
I'll be looking to take delivery of another EV in early 2017, if Tesla have introduced autopilot 2.0 hardware by than I'll be tempted to by a new S60D (remember it's really just a software limited 75D). But if autopilot 2.0 isn't out, buying used will be much better value for money.
Edited by gangzoom on Friday 17th June 18:09
The 3 has many things missing that the S60 has as standard, like SC access. There's also zero guarantee that AP 2 hardware will be out by then. You also can't compare a car now with a car in the future. It's a bit like saying dont buy a Lamborghini Diablo in 1985 because in 2015 you could buy a BMW 335d that's half the price and just as fast.
I would not be surprised if the M3 range spanned 30-60k overlapping with the S.
JonV8V said:
You're confusing so much here. The S60 has a near 300 mile quoted range which is 50% more than the 3. An S60 real world is 190-200 so a M3 will be about 130-140 real world.
The 3 has many things missing that the S60 has as standard, like SC access. There's also zero guarantee that AP 2 hardware will be out by then. You also can't compare a car now with a car in the future. It's a bit like saying dont buy a Lamborghini Diablo in 1985 because in 2015 you could buy a BMW 335d that's half the price and just as fast.
I would not be surprised if the M3 range spanned 30-60k overlapping with the S.
Check the Tesla website for the EPA range of the S60, its range is just over 200 miles. The 3 will have a minimum EPA rating of 200 miles. Ill also bet my mortgage autopilot 2.0 will be out by the time the 3 hits production in late 2017, mobileeye has all but confirmed that Tesla will be putting the latest hardware. into their cars latest by Q1 2017, there has already been Tesla mules spotted with the extra sensors installed running around. The 3 has many things missing that the S60 has as standard, like SC access. There's also zero guarantee that AP 2 hardware will be out by then. You also can't compare a car now with a car in the future. It's a bit like saying dont buy a Lamborghini Diablo in 1985 because in 2015 you could buy a BMW 335d that's half the price and just as fast.
I would not be surprised if the M3 range spanned 30-60k overlapping with the S.
But its ture you shouldn't wait for something in the future if you can afford it now. However if you just look at how quickly Tesla have introduced changes in just over 2 years and the tech coming over the next 12-24 months, ill be amazed if the Model S line in 2018 looks anything like it does today.
Edited by gangzoom on Saturday 18th June 02:50
Edited by gangzoom on Saturday 18th June 02:52
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