What's next after the Leaf?
Discussion
My other half has a Leaf Tekna on PCP from Nissan. It was a stonking deal which is costing around £3500 for 2 years of motoring all in. It comes to an end early next year and although we don't need to worry too much just yet, we're starting to think about what will replace it. We won't be buying the Leaf outright, GFV is crazy high.
Good things about the Leaf:
Very well equipped
Comfortable for family of four
Decent enough to drive around town which is where it spends the majority of its time
Bad things:
The range. It's just the not quite enough to make any of our regular longer journeys practical. We've used it for Newcastle to Leeds (100 miles ish) a few times but it doubles the journey time having to trundle down the A1 at lorry speeds and still have to top up somewhere. We also travel Newcastle to Birmingham (200 miles ish) a lot and the Leaf just isn't compatible with that.
We're fully sold on the idea of an electric car, it works really well for the stuff it's normally used for.
I can see that we're not going to get a deal anything like we got this time around but that is fine. Budget could probably go to around £300 per month all in funded in whatever way makes sense, whether that's PCP, lease or private purchase. The Leaf currently does around 5k per year but that could go up a lot if the range were better. Anything up to about 8k.
Options seem to be:
New leaf - Fine but might hurt a bit paying a lot more for the same thing and I understand that the improved range on the newest model isn't game changing. A strong contender but would like to explore if possibilities first.
BMW i3 - I like these but cannot see any decent deals anywhere. What is the most cost effective way to get one of these?
Renault Zoe - These were a bargain at one point. Don't seem to be now and I'm not sure that they're quite as good as the leaf for what we need.
Not mad keen on plug in Hybrids with very low electric range.
Good things about the Leaf:
Very well equipped
Comfortable for family of four
Decent enough to drive around town which is where it spends the majority of its time
Bad things:
The range. It's just the not quite enough to make any of our regular longer journeys practical. We've used it for Newcastle to Leeds (100 miles ish) a few times but it doubles the journey time having to trundle down the A1 at lorry speeds and still have to top up somewhere. We also travel Newcastle to Birmingham (200 miles ish) a lot and the Leaf just isn't compatible with that.
We're fully sold on the idea of an electric car, it works really well for the stuff it's normally used for.
I can see that we're not going to get a deal anything like we got this time around but that is fine. Budget could probably go to around £300 per month all in funded in whatever way makes sense, whether that's PCP, lease or private purchase. The Leaf currently does around 5k per year but that could go up a lot if the range were better. Anything up to about 8k.
Options seem to be:
New leaf - Fine but might hurt a bit paying a lot more for the same thing and I understand that the improved range on the newest model isn't game changing. A strong contender but would like to explore if possibilities first.
BMW i3 - I like these but cannot see any decent deals anywhere. What is the most cost effective way to get one of these?
Renault Zoe - These were a bargain at one point. Don't seem to be now and I'm not sure that they're quite as good as the leaf for what we need.
Not mad keen on plug in Hybrids with very low electric range.
Here's a suggestion: Second hand Leaf!
Pre-depreciated they're a bargain. Buying out Nissan directly, I understand, isn't cost effective but if you look around AutoTrader etc you are going to find one.
I realise it's not shiny and new but there's no reason to expect that a three year old one isn't going to do another three years just fine. Whereupon it will be paid for and it's all gravy however long it keeps working after that.
Depends if it needs to be new or not.
Pre-depreciated they're a bargain. Buying out Nissan directly, I understand, isn't cost effective but if you look around AutoTrader etc you are going to find one.
I realise it's not shiny and new but there's no reason to expect that a three year old one isn't going to do another three years just fine. Whereupon it will be paid for and it's all gravy however long it keeps working after that.
Depends if it needs to be new or not.
Don said:
Here's a suggestion: Second hand Leaf!
Pre-depreciated they're a bargain. Buying out Nissan directly, I understand, isn't cost effective but if you look around AutoTrader etc you are going to find one.
I realise it's not shiny and new but there's no reason to expect that a three year old one isn't going to do another three years just fine. Whereupon it will be paid for and it's all gravy however long it keeps working after that.
Depends if it needs to be new or not.
Should have talked about this option actually. They do look cheap I must admit. It doesn't have to be new though under warranty is a priority. My Mrs just wants hassle free motoring. Pre-depreciated they're a bargain. Buying out Nissan directly, I understand, isn't cost effective but if you look around AutoTrader etc you are going to find one.
I realise it's not shiny and new but there's no reason to expect that a three year old one isn't going to do another three years just fine. Whereupon it will be paid for and it's all gravy however long it keeps working after that.
Depends if it needs to be new or not.
A two year old one would be an option. I understand that the Leaf did have a three year warranty but the newest ones now have an 8 year warranty? I guess a year old one of those would also make a lot of sense when the time comes. I'll keep an eye on values in the interim.
Most i3s seem to still be in the BMW dealer network and I've seen few under £20k.
In theory they should start appearing on the market at lower prices soon, since a lot of PCPs will be finishing and the newer model is now out with a bigger battery.
If you bought one with a REX it would suit your usage, I think.
In theory they should start appearing on the market at lower prices soon, since a lot of PCPs will be finishing and the newer model is now out with a bigger battery.
If you bought one with a REX it would suit your usage, I think.
njd27 said:
Most i3s seem to still be in the BMW dealer network and I've seen few under £20k.
In theory they should start appearing on the market at lower prices soon, since a lot of PCPs will be finishing and the newer model is now out with a bigger battery.
If you bought one with a REX it would suit your usage, I think.
The REX appeals. The newest one even more so but I suspect that will be beyond our budget. What is the warrant like on the i3 in terms of buying used? Is it extendible? In theory they should start appearing on the market at lower prices soon, since a lot of PCPs will be finishing and the newer model is now out with a bigger battery.
If you bought one with a REX it would suit your usage, I think.
Gad-Westy said:
The REX appeals. The newest one even more so but I suspect that will be beyond our budget. What is the warrant like on the i3 in terms of buying used? Is it extendible?
I bought a 3.5k mile 2yr old i3 Rex, from a BMW dealer, with warranty remaining for 20.5k
I sold my 19mth old Zoe intense with 6k miles for 3.5k, a few hundred quid over the deal r bid.
So you can drive a bus through dealer margins. I think the 2-3y old EV is a ruddy bargain as a cash purchase.
Might b more i3 Rex coming up with lease periods ending and the new battery being introduced?
There certainly were some good deals on i3s, although a new version was announced recently with a bigger battery (available from July) so that was probably why.
Chevy Bolt will be sold in Europe as the Opel Ampera-e and has a claimed 200 mile range but not starting production till late this year and not sure it's even confirmed for UK yet so unlikely to work time-wise.
How frequent are the 200 mile journeys? We just run the one car so I sometimes hire one for the weekend, the local Sixt is about £70 for a Friday morning to Monday morning. If the everyday runaround is cheap enough but lower range then maybe renting something else when you need it could work?
Chevy Bolt will be sold in Europe as the Opel Ampera-e and has a claimed 200 mile range but not starting production till late this year and not sure it's even confirmed for UK yet so unlikely to work time-wise.
How frequent are the 200 mile journeys? We just run the one car so I sometimes hire one for the weekend, the local Sixt is about £70 for a Friday morning to Monday morning. If the everyday runaround is cheap enough but lower range then maybe renting something else when you need it could work?
sjg said:
There certainly were some good deals on i3s, although a new version was announced recently with a bigger battery (available from July) so that was probably why.
Chevy Bolt will be sold in Europe as the Opel Ampera-e and has a claimed 200 mile range but not starting production till late this year and not sure it's even confirmed for UK yet so unlikely to work time-wise.
How frequent are the 200 mile journeys? We just run the one car so I sometimes hire one for the weekend, the local Sixt is about £70 for a Friday morning to Monday morning. If the everyday runaround is cheap enough but lower range then maybe renting something else when you need it could work?
The 200 miles journeys are more of an aspiration than a requirement. We have another car that we do use for those at present but electric miles are so much cheaper than V8 miles! What bugs a little about the Leaf is that other than bumbling around town, range is never out of your thoughts. We went to Leeds and back last weekend in the Leaf and it was fine but the whole journey was centred around where we are going to charge it, is there going to be a free charge point or are we going to be waiting around with two bored toddlers? It would have been great to be able to just hop into a fully charged EV and do that sort of distance with no special consideration. It's not a criticism of the Leaf as such as we didn't buy it with those journeys in mind but it's a nice way to travel and if we are going to spend more on an EV, maybe we can expand our usage a bit too. That's the thought process at present. Chevy Bolt will be sold in Europe as the Opel Ampera-e and has a claimed 200 mile range but not starting production till late this year and not sure it's even confirmed for UK yet so unlikely to work time-wise.
How frequent are the 200 mile journeys? We just run the one car so I sometimes hire one for the weekend, the local Sixt is about £70 for a Friday morning to Monday morning. If the everyday runaround is cheap enough but lower range then maybe renting something else when you need it could work?
This thread might interest you: https://speakev.com/threads/personal-leasing-bmw-i...
So he's offering a brand new i3 REX for £274 p.c.m. on a 6+23 deal with 6k miles. That's almost within your budget?
So he's offering a brand new i3 REX for £274 p.c.m. on a 6+23 deal with 6k miles. That's almost within your budget?
njd27 said:
This thread might interest you: https://speakev.com/threads/personal-leasing-bmw-i...
So he's offering a brand new i3 REX for £274 p.c.m. on a 6+23 deal with 6k miles. That's almost within your budget?
Cheers for that. That's certainly getting into the right ball park. So he's offering a brand new i3 REX for £274 p.c.m. on a 6+23 deal with 6k miles. That's almost within your budget?
I think you have to factor in some options as well - you'll need the DC prep if you want to use rapid chargers (although with the REX you might say you don't need it), and the Pro Nav is apparently worth having otherwise you'll be disappointed with the standard tiny screen after being in a Leaf. SpeakEV is a good forum to have a look through.
Can you tell I'm going through a similar research exercise myself? although my Leaf PCP doesn't finish until next July so hopefully the situation has some time to develop.
Can you tell I'm going through a similar research exercise myself? although my Leaf PCP doesn't finish until next July so hopefully the situation has some time to develop.
Edited by njd27 on Tuesday 17th May 16:04
It's not beyond imagination Nissan *Might* have a longer range next gen Leaf ready to show off towards end of the year. Sunderland has already been told they have the contract to supply the next gen batteries (not the current 30kWh) ones. Unlike Tesla Nissan cannot just pre-announce the next Leaf 12 months head of launch, if they did than sales of the current Leaf would fall off a cliff....Which in the US they are already starting to do.
My Leaf deal finishes early next year, I'm very tempted by a 18 months old Tesla P85D when the times comes, but even used the Tesla will be £65K+, compared to the <£4K the Leaf PCP deal has cost me over 24 months.
The longer range i3 is also tempting, and VW have said they are going to release a much longer range eGolf soon. So I think over the next 12-24 months we'll have a lot more choice for longer EVs
.
My Leaf deal finishes early next year, I'm very tempted by a 18 months old Tesla P85D when the times comes, but even used the Tesla will be £65K+, compared to the <£4K the Leaf PCP deal has cost me over 24 months.
The longer range i3 is also tempting, and VW have said they are going to release a much longer range eGolf soon. So I think over the next 12-24 months we'll have a lot more choice for longer EVs
.Gad-Westy said:
Should have talked about this option actually. They do look cheap I must admit. It doesn't have to be new though under warranty is a priority. My Mrs just wants hassle free motoring.
A two year old one would be an option. I understand that the Leaf did have a three year warranty but the newest ones now have an 8 year warranty? I guess a year old one of those would also make a lot of sense when the time comes. I'll keep an eye on values in the interim.
Only the 30kw Leaf has the longer 8 year 100k warranty but that only applies to EV related stuff, the batteries etc, the std warr for none ev stuff is 3yr 60k miles. However all Leafs have a 5 year old 60k warranty on the EV bits..A two year old one would be an option. I understand that the Leaf did have a three year warranty but the newest ones now have an 8 year warranty? I guess a year old one of those would also make a lot of sense when the time comes. I'll keep an eye on values in the interim.
You can currently find used Acenta (non flex cars) under 12m old and low miles for below £13k, PCP prices on those should be a lot closer to what you pay at present compared to a new one. So a 2 year PCP would mean warranty cover as a new one.
A 30kw Leaf should do a 100 mile trip without charging unless you drive it like you stole it. Worst case you may need 10-15 minutes on a rapid charger to top-up for the last 20 miles, rather than a full 80% 40m charge.
The reason for the big hike in PCP prices on new is the much lower GFV's
now being quoting compared to 2014/2015 prices.
I suspect new i3 PCP's will be no different.
DSLiverpool said:
In exactly the same boat but we have 2 a Zoe and a leaf.
Our answer at present is a used I3 REX on a pcp for the wife so she can go anywhere and the cheapest leaf I can find to get me the 12 mile daily commute.
We pay £3600 for both a year I am hoping the new set up isn't much more.
Would be interesting to see what sort of deals are out there on a used i3. The numbers on the BMW site look far from appealing. Starting to think that buying a used Zoe outright might be a good option, depending on whether the warranty is extend able. Our answer at present is a used I3 REX on a pcp for the wife so she can go anywhere and the cheapest leaf I can find to get me the 12 mile daily commute.
We pay £3600 for both a year I am hoping the new set up isn't much more.
DSLiverpool said:
I3 Rex is £21k cheapest but by end of year I expect £17k ish then do a pcp
Looking at the BMW Select finance calculator, it doesn't look that appealing. Just did an example on a £19k car. 24 months PCP, Deposit £1500, 24x £395 per month. Total of about £11k to pay over two years with a GFV of £11.4k. 8k per year cap. And that's on cars that will be potentially out of warranty during second year. Certainly a long way above our budget and not looking too attractive right now. I think its the depreciation that is killing this at the moment. The Leaf, Zoe and i3 feel a little a like early adopter cars. They're great but I can see them being worth very little when there are cars with 200+ miles range available. Suspect that is what is hammering used values right now. It is making the prospect of just buying a used Leaf or Zoe look more and more appealing. Won't answer all of our want list but will save a bundle of money.
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