Does Anyone Have a Nissan Leaf FLEX?

[M4cruiser]

Hi all,

Just wondering what happens if you buy the Nissan Leaf with the battery leasing "Flex" option then you cancel the direct debit for the battery, and keep driving it?
Presumably you can keep charging it up? (Not legally though?)

Looking at the second-hand prices, the Flex models are about £3,000 to £5,000 less than the non-flex ones. A 2-year old car for about £8,000 is quite attractive when the new ones are over £20,000. It's the £80 per month that puts me off.

[R8Steve]

M4cruiser said:

Hi all,

Just wondering what happens if you buy the Nissan Leaf with the battery leasing "Flex" option then you cancel the direct debit for the battery, and keep driving it?
Presumably you can keep charging it up? (Not legally though?)

Looking at the second-hand prices, the Flex models are about £3,000 to £5,000 less than the non-flex ones. A 2-year old car for about £8,000 is quite attractive when the new ones are over £20,000. It's the £80 per month that puts me off.

I'm not sure if i'm understanding your question correctly but would you lease a car then cancel the direct debit and expect to just keep driving it?

The reason the non-flex ones are dearer is because you then own the battery outright with no need to pay the monthly flex lease.

[lost in espace]

M4cruiser said:

Hi all,

Just wondering what happens if you buy the Nissan Leaf with the battery leasing "Flex" option then you cancel the direct debit for the battery, and keep driving it?
Presumably you can keep charging it up? (Not legally though?)

Looking at the second-hand prices, the Flex models are about £3,000 to £5,000 less than the non-flex ones. A 2-year old car for about £8,000 is quite attractive when the new ones are over £20,000. It's the £80 per month that puts me off.

The can probably disable it remotely. And get a CCJ against you?

[jamiebae]

If you're buying one with cash then you need the one with the outright battery purchase. The ones with a battery lease will depreciate to zero value pretty soon for the exact reason you state - nobody wants to buy a car for five grand and have to pay £80 per month on top for the battery lease.

Look at this: http://www2.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

They seem to go for £5-6k (or at least are advertised at that price) for a 2012 car with under 15k miles on the clock - even an MG6 is worth more than that. Give it two years and it'll be worthless as the annual £960 battery lease will mean it costs you more than leasing a brand new Zoe or Leaf.

With electric cars leasing is the way to go, no question. £150 or so per month all in, and you're not stuck with the heaviest depreciating car you cna buy at the end of the term either.

p.s. I'm ignoring the original question as it's frankly one of the most stupid suggestions I've ever heard

[gangzoom]

M4cruiser said:

Hi all,

Just wondering what happens if you buy the Nissan Leaf with the battery leasing "Flex" option then you cancel the direct debit for the battery, and keep driving it?
Presumably you can keep charging it up? (Not legally though?)

The car sends data back to Nissan all the time. I'm pretty sure Nissan can 'brick' the battery it you paying.

[M4cruiser]

jamiebae said:

p.s. I'm ignoring the original question as it's frankly one of the most stupid suggestions I've ever heard

... just to be clear, it wasn't a "suggestion" - I guessed there'd be something illegal or immoral about it, I just wondered what would actually happen?

I've heard that Renault can (allegedly) remotely disable the Zoe if you stop paying, but hadn't heard if Nissan can also do that.
Someone somewhere must have tried it, albeit inadvertently, i.e. running out of money unexpectedly, losing job etc...

[Don]

There is probably some means by which a car with a battery lease can be converted into a car with a battery purchased outright. The battery must also depreciate by I have no idea what scale Nissan judge to calculate a leased battery's NPV.

I own my car/battery outright as I didn't want any of this hassle when I decided to move it on. From my perspective its easier to either purchase outright or just lease the whole car...cleaner deal.

[TooLateForAName]

Don said:

There is probably some means by which a car with a battery lease can be converted into a car with a battery purchased outright. The battery must also depreciate by I have no idea what scale Nissan judge to calculate a leased battery's NPV.

You'd think so wouldn't you?

But you'd be wrong. They have consistently refused to allow people to buy out the leases. You can get them to present a bill if you write the car off, but even I think that that is a little extreme...

[gangzoom]

M4cruiser said:

Someone somewhere must have tried it, albeit inadvertently, i.e. running out of money unexpectedly, losing job etc...

I suspect the first of course of action for RCI would be to peruse you through the courts, same as any other car.

[jamiebae]

M4cruiser said:

... just to be clear, it wasn't a "suggestion" - I guessed there'd be something illegal or immoral about it, I just wondered what would actually happen?

I've heard that Renault can (allegedly) remotely disable the Zoe if you stop paying, but hadn't heard if Nissan can also do that.
Someone somewhere must have tried it, albeit inadvertently, i.e. running out of money unexpectedly, losing job etc...

Fair enough. It'd be interesting to see if the battery lease cars come up as 'on finance' when HPI checked as it seems to be impossible to actually own them outright. What happens if you need to renew the lease but your credit rating is dirtier than a Latvian prostitute?

[M4cruiser]

jamiebae said:

Fair enough. It'd be interesting to see if the battery lease cars come up as 'on finance' when HPI checked as it seems to be impossible to actually own them outright. What happens if you need to renew the lease but your credit rating is dirtier than a Latvian prostitute?

Yes, that would be a good question. When browsing the adverts, it's odd how some are plainly "FLEX" in the heading, and some it's flex hidden near the bottom of the ad. I wonder if those make you sign the battery lease amongst all the other paperwork without really knowing what you're signing?

Does anyone know - am I right in assuming that the Flex batteries will get replaced without further charge when they are no good? And who decides how "good" is "no good"?
The battery obviously degrades over time (a bit like a mobile phone battery) and I've seen ads for used Leafs (Leaves?) with a fully-charged range of only 50 miles instead of 100. That's not "faulty" as such, but it's bad enough to be no good. I would guess the car has scrap value only at that point, say 8 years old?

[jamiebae]

M4cruiser said:

Yes, that would be a good question. When browsing the adverts, it's odd how some are plainly "FLEX" in the heading, and some it's flex hidden near the bottom of the ad. I wonder if those make you sign the battery lease amongst all the other paperwork without really knowing what you're signing?

Does anyone know - am I right in assuming that the Flex batteries will get replaced without further charge when they are no good? And who decides how "good" is "no good"?
The battery obviously degrades over time (a bit like a mobile phone battery) and I've seen ads for used Leafs (Leaves?) with a fully-charged range of only 50 miles instead of 100. That's not "faulty" as such, but it's bad enough to be no good. I would guess the car has scrap value only at that point, say 8 years old?

I've answered my own question, an HPI check shows the battery lease against the car in the same way as if the car itself was financed - here's an example of what is shown.

VRM and VIN RCI FS LTD (DEALER SERVICES BATTERIES) LEAF BATTERY Miscellaneous

Don't they say the battery is OK until it holds less than 75% of specified charge?

Frankly, a leaf or Zoe with a battery lease will be scrap value at 5 years old the way they're heading right now. I bet most of the PCP and lease returns will be as good as impossible to sell on when they start coming back.

[Don]

jamiebae said:

With electric cars leasing is the way to go, no question. £150 or so per month all in, and you're not stuck with the heaviest depreciating car you cna buy at the end of the term either.

Actually not. Yes, leasing is a good way to go if you lease the whole car. An outright purchase, though, can make sense. I bought my Leaf on the basis that I would drive it for four years. In that time the fuel cost saving will pay for the car. It will be a FREE car. I am almost two years into that deal and it is shaping up nicely. After the four years it doesn't matter what I get for it in part exchange it has already paid for itself...and it will be worth something.

I hope Tesla's depreciate like stones as I'd like one but am not willing to pay. Maybe at five years old one will make sense (for me)...

[M4cruiser]

jamiebae said:

Frankly, a Leaf or Zoe with a battery lease will be scrap value at 5 years old

Maybe that would actually suit me better, if I could get a 6 year old car for nothing and just pay the battery lease, then I'd have no problem throwing the thing away when/if I couldn't afford it any more ... I've realised what I can't cope with is depreciation and battery lease together!

[jamiebae]

Don said:

jamiebae said:

With electric cars leasing is the way to go, no question. £150 or so per month all in, and you're not stuck with the heaviest depreciating car you cna buy at the end of the term either.

Actually not. Yes, leasing is a good way to go if you lease the whole car. An outright purchase, though, can make sense. I bought my Leaf on the basis that I would drive it for four years. In that time the fuel cost saving will pay for the car. It will be a FREE car. I am almost two years into that deal and it is shaping up nicely. After the four years it doesn't matter what I get for it in part exchange it has already paid for itself...and it will be worth something.

I hope Tesla's depreciate like stones as I'd like one but am not willing to pay. Maybe at five years old one will make sense (for me)...

I'm not sure I agree. £2k per year will lease you a Leaf and after four years it will have cost you £8k (maybe you'd have had one for two years and swapped it for another one). I reckon that's a load cheaper than buying one outright, running it for four years and selling it at the end unless you bought a cheap used example.

As for Tesla depreciation, it hasn't happened yet unfortunately!

[Don]

jamiebae said:

unless you bought a cheap used example.

That's the one. I bought an ex-demonstrator at a MASSIVE discount from the new price. I am saving £250 a month (the difference between the fuel I used to use and the £20 I pay now...). Four years or so to a "free" car.

If you can lease one as cheap as you say that would also be a cracking deal with my usage profile. I would lease the whole car, though, not just the battery as in the OPs question.

Seems odd to me that there's no easy way to buy Nissan out of the battery thing.

[jamiebae]

Don said:

That's the one. I bought an ex-demonstrator at a MASSIVE discount from the new price. I am saving £250 a month (the difference between the fuel I used to use and the £20 I pay now...). Four years or so to a "free" car.

If you can lease one as cheap as you say that would also be a cracking deal with my usage profile. I would lease the whole car, though, not just the battery as in the OPs question.

Seems odd to me that there's no easy way to buy Nissan out of the battery thing.

I read on another thread here that some 'end of lease' electric cars are being exported so they may be connected. If the battery is leased the manufacturer will effectively always own the car, which means they can have some kind of control of the supply of vehicles on the used market. I expect we will see some kind of buy-back scheme for leased battery cars in the future, where they will be given a minor refurb before being shipped to a second or third world country as part of some kind of mobility scheme. It makes no sense for Renault/Nissan to put new batteries in 7 year old cars, and it makes no sense for a driver to pay £80 per month on a battery lease for old technology.

[Don]

jamiebae said:

It makes no sense for Renault/Nissan to put new batteries in 7 year old cars, and it makes no sense for a driver to pay £80 per month on a battery lease for old technology.

I agree completely.

[RochdalePioneers]

My wife has a nearly 2 year old Leaf with a flex battery contract. On a 3 year PCP bought with an at the time mega discount (they've since gone cheaper...) with a view to trade it in for a new one at the end of the term.

That plan has changed a bit as it seems pretty clear a 24kW Leaf at 3 years old with a lease battery will be worth about £3.50. So now it'll be a hand back job with thousands in negative equity vs the large GFV. What Nissan/RCI want to do with a car with an obsolete battery that's only been partially paid off is up to them - I went Flex knowing that I had no intention of paying the GFV at the end.

[Don]

RochdalePioneers said:

My wife has a nearly 2 year old Leaf with a flex battery contract. On a 3 year PCP bought with an at the time mega discount (they've since gone cheaper...) with a view to trade it in for a new one at the end of the term.

That plan has changed a bit as it seems pretty clear a 24kW Leaf at 3 years old with a lease battery will be worth about £3.50. So now it'll be a hand back job with thousands in negative equity vs the large GFV. What Nissan/RCI want to do with a car with an obsolete battery that's only been partially paid off is up to them - I went Flex knowing that I had no intention of paying the GFV at the end.

I imagine Nissan will take the car back and then auction it complete so there's no battery lease involved. It will be a good runner for someone, I'm sure.