BMW i8 vs. Tesla Model S - comparison
Discussion
So I decided to take a test drive in the BMW i8 last week, to see how it compares to my own Tesla Model S (a P85+ variant), and thought I would share my findings for those who are interested:
LOOKS
The i8 is certainly a dramatic looking car, and from that perspective I guess it wins. I actually like the understated looks of the Model S; anyone in to their cars knows what it is, and to anyone else it just discreetly passes by, which I prefer. However, for those after a flashy fast car, the i8 certainly ticks all the boxes.
BMW 1 - Tesla 0
PERFORMANCE
I have to say, I was really disappointed with the i8 in this respect. In Eco mode, it would only do a maximum of 15 miles range, which to be honest is only going to be of use to a minority of owners. In Comfort mode, where the electric motor and ICE work in parallel as required, it drives very smoothly like a normal car, however it wasn't that quick. In Sport mode, where both motors are permanently engaged (I think) it still wasn't fast. Honestly, my P85+ would cream it off the line and it wouldn't see which way a P85D or P90D went. Even in the midrange it didn't feel particularly fast; no faster than my old BMW 335D, for instance. Nail in the coffin for the i8 was the 'enhanced' sound, which just sounded ridiculous; piping in additional exhaust noise to the front speakers of a rear engined car is just all sorts of wrong, sorry.
BMW 1 - Tesla 1
HANDLING
One of my biggest gripes with the Model S is it is a bit of a lardarse, on account of the huge battery pack it has underneath, and so whilst it handles securely and predictably, its not very involving. The i8 was the polar opposite; nice and light, flickable, and suitably firm. I couldn't test it fully of course, but it felt more like my old Cayman S than the Tesla or 335D, which is a good thing.
BMW 2 - Tesla 1
INTERIOR
The i8's interior is a disappointment, and that comes from someone who has always loved BMW interiors in the past. It's well put together, but coming from the Tesla it felt cluttered and illogical; lots of buttons, no real continuity of where buttons were placed, too many angles all coming together in the dash, it just felt busy. And the transmission tunnel is too high, and the wide sill is basically like an Elise getting in and out, which isn't a good thing!
BMW 2 - Tesla 2
PRACTICALITY/USABILITY
OK, it is probably obvious the Tesla was always going to win this as it is a 5-seater saloon with 2 boots (trunks/frunks, whatever), however taking into account the considered usage I still think the i8 was a poor performer. The fancy doors look great but make it difficult to get in, and even harder to get out of without fear of removing a neighbouring cars' wing mirror. The rear seats were useless with me driving (6ft tall), and there's very little luggage space. A 911 is a better bet, and a Cayman S, F Type or V8 Vantage better still, for example.
BMW 2 - Tesla 3
TECHNOLOGY
This is one of the areas where the i8 and Model S really go head to head, both offering the customer the latest and greatest in technology. The BMW has a trick head-up display and a cool (if not particularly useful) aerial camera view made up of all the cameras around the car. However, the screen is very small to actually see the camera views, particularly compared to the Tesla's 17" item. Add in Autopilot, Autopark, Summon and all the 'over the air' updates from Tesla and I'm afraid the Tesla has BMW beat. I wouldn't mind that head-up display in the Model S, though...smile
BMW 2 - Tesla 4
OWNERSHIP
This is a tricky one in some respects; both cars can be similar money (i8 is around £105,000 without options, a Model S P90D is around £100,000), but used values of the i8 have plummeted recently; a secondhand car that was still commanding £100k a couple of months back is around £85 now. Conversely, Model S prices seem to be holding up, largely dictated by spec; plus Tesla's buyback scheme, which guarantees a buyback price after 3 years of 50% of the car value + 43% of any option packs (subject to condition, mileage, etc.) is a distinct bonus/safety net. Add in the significantly lower running costs of the Tesla being all electric (the i8 realistically seems to manage around 30-35mpg) and the Tesla takes a clear win here.
BMW 2 - Tesla 5
All told, whilst I like the looks and really wanted to like the car, the i8 really is a missed opportunity for BMW in terms of what it could have been, whereas Tesla have really nailed the Model S in terms of achieving its potential, so I won't be making the change anytime soon. Without meaning to sound insulting to any i8 owners, but unless you just wanted a very futuristic looking toy, I'm not sure why you would buy one? The running costs don't look particularly cheap, and in every other respect the established cars in a similar price range are a much better bet - I'd have a F Type R over the i8 any day! Of course, if it's an EV you want then the Model S wins hands down...
Just my 2p worth, I await to be flamed accordingly smile
LOOKS
The i8 is certainly a dramatic looking car, and from that perspective I guess it wins. I actually like the understated looks of the Model S; anyone in to their cars knows what it is, and to anyone else it just discreetly passes by, which I prefer. However, for those after a flashy fast car, the i8 certainly ticks all the boxes.
BMW 1 - Tesla 0
PERFORMANCE
I have to say, I was really disappointed with the i8 in this respect. In Eco mode, it would only do a maximum of 15 miles range, which to be honest is only going to be of use to a minority of owners. In Comfort mode, where the electric motor and ICE work in parallel as required, it drives very smoothly like a normal car, however it wasn't that quick. In Sport mode, where both motors are permanently engaged (I think) it still wasn't fast. Honestly, my P85+ would cream it off the line and it wouldn't see which way a P85D or P90D went. Even in the midrange it didn't feel particularly fast; no faster than my old BMW 335D, for instance. Nail in the coffin for the i8 was the 'enhanced' sound, which just sounded ridiculous; piping in additional exhaust noise to the front speakers of a rear engined car is just all sorts of wrong, sorry.
BMW 1 - Tesla 1
HANDLING
One of my biggest gripes with the Model S is it is a bit of a lardarse, on account of the huge battery pack it has underneath, and so whilst it handles securely and predictably, its not very involving. The i8 was the polar opposite; nice and light, flickable, and suitably firm. I couldn't test it fully of course, but it felt more like my old Cayman S than the Tesla or 335D, which is a good thing.
BMW 2 - Tesla 1
INTERIOR
The i8's interior is a disappointment, and that comes from someone who has always loved BMW interiors in the past. It's well put together, but coming from the Tesla it felt cluttered and illogical; lots of buttons, no real continuity of where buttons were placed, too many angles all coming together in the dash, it just felt busy. And the transmission tunnel is too high, and the wide sill is basically like an Elise getting in and out, which isn't a good thing!
BMW 2 - Tesla 2
PRACTICALITY/USABILITY
OK, it is probably obvious the Tesla was always going to win this as it is a 5-seater saloon with 2 boots (trunks/frunks, whatever), however taking into account the considered usage I still think the i8 was a poor performer. The fancy doors look great but make it difficult to get in, and even harder to get out of without fear of removing a neighbouring cars' wing mirror. The rear seats were useless with me driving (6ft tall), and there's very little luggage space. A 911 is a better bet, and a Cayman S, F Type or V8 Vantage better still, for example.
BMW 2 - Tesla 3
TECHNOLOGY
This is one of the areas where the i8 and Model S really go head to head, both offering the customer the latest and greatest in technology. The BMW has a trick head-up display and a cool (if not particularly useful) aerial camera view made up of all the cameras around the car. However, the screen is very small to actually see the camera views, particularly compared to the Tesla's 17" item. Add in Autopilot, Autopark, Summon and all the 'over the air' updates from Tesla and I'm afraid the Tesla has BMW beat. I wouldn't mind that head-up display in the Model S, though...smile
BMW 2 - Tesla 4
OWNERSHIP
This is a tricky one in some respects; both cars can be similar money (i8 is around £105,000 without options, a Model S P90D is around £100,000), but used values of the i8 have plummeted recently; a secondhand car that was still commanding £100k a couple of months back is around £85 now. Conversely, Model S prices seem to be holding up, largely dictated by spec; plus Tesla's buyback scheme, which guarantees a buyback price after 3 years of 50% of the car value + 43% of any option packs (subject to condition, mileage, etc.) is a distinct bonus/safety net. Add in the significantly lower running costs of the Tesla being all electric (the i8 realistically seems to manage around 30-35mpg) and the Tesla takes a clear win here.
BMW 2 - Tesla 5
All told, whilst I like the looks and really wanted to like the car, the i8 really is a missed opportunity for BMW in terms of what it could have been, whereas Tesla have really nailed the Model S in terms of achieving its potential, so I won't be making the change anytime soon. Without meaning to sound insulting to any i8 owners, but unless you just wanted a very futuristic looking toy, I'm not sure why you would buy one? The running costs don't look particularly cheap, and in every other respect the established cars in a similar price range are a much better bet - I'd have a F Type R over the i8 any day! Of course, if it's an EV you want then the Model S wins hands down...
Just my 2p worth, I await to be flamed accordingly smile
I'd give the interior to BMW - the quality of fit finish and materials in the tesla isn't great. Just look at the fake plastic stitching, a dash you can pry apart in your hands etc.
I'd call technology a tie - connected drive is way better than teslas attempt at a navigation system, the complexity of the transmission is greater in the i8, head up display, those doors, and I thought you could get the parking stuff on the i8, so just auto pilot in Teslas favour and lot it has missing. Be good to store music in the tesla and not have to re-read a usb stick from scratch such that the album art is loses just as you've got where you're going.
I'd call technology a tie - connected drive is way better than teslas attempt at a navigation system, the complexity of the transmission is greater in the i8, head up display, those doors, and I thought you could get the parking stuff on the i8, so just auto pilot in Teslas favour and lot it has missing. Be good to store music in the tesla and not have to re-read a usb stick from scratch such that the album art is loses just as you've got where you're going.
I agree the BMW has the edge on interior quality, but it's too busy and cluttered - the layout is awful, and most the quality is there, it's all so matt black and plastic. I get in the Tesla and there's leather, matt wood, alcantara on the dash and headliner (admittedly optional, but still...) - it just felt a nicer place to be.
Tech wise, I'd take Autopilot (and future generations of Summon) over a head-up display any day of the week, although both would be nice.
Not sure how you can fault the Tesla's transmission, it's just one gear and operates seamlessly?!
Tech wise, I'd take Autopilot (and future generations of Summon) over a head-up display any day of the week, although both would be nice.
Not sure how you can fault the Tesla's transmission, it's just one gear and operates seamlessly?!
Hey Mike, love that you've taken the time to write the review. This is a very similar thought exercise I went through and I bought the i8. So, with only light flaming, here is my retort!
The first thing that strikes me is how neither car has any real rivals, including each other, yet are so often compared. I fell into that trap, too.
LOOKS
There is no winner, per se. One is a rare 2+2 supercar with gullwing doors that looks like nothing else. The other a beautifully understated Jaguar-lookalike with 7 seats. Love all.
PERFORMANCE
The Model S is the king of the drag strip, super impressive, but it's one trick pony with possible range issues. The i8 is nimble, fast, sounds good and does 40mpg. I've come from fast cars and got bored of straight grunt and enjoy the nuances of a well setup GT car. And no one really tries to do the 3.9sec (i8) or 2.9sec (S) launch control. Still love all.
HANDLING
No contest here, the carbon tub in the i8 is super stiff meaning damping is easier to control. Not only does the i8 change direction quicker, stop more impressively it rides more compliantly and is easier the hustle. 15 love for the i8.
INTERIOR
The i8 is upmarket BMW fare. There is leather everywhere, stunning seats and it wraps around you like a drivers car. The rear seats are more people friendly for short distances than a 911 and double as storage not available in the boot. It feels a really rather special place to be. The S in interesting, it feels more amercun in build quality but the huge tablet is super cool. The S is also cavernous inside, swallowing everything you can throw at it. I think 99% of PHers would prefer to be in the head-up, driver-focused cockpit of the i8. 30 love to the i8.
PRACTICALITY/USABILITY
The S wins this by miles, it's a 5 door, 7 seat micro-bussed size vehicle with a flat floor and acres of storage. However, the i8 has a genuine 350 mile range and 40mpg and is a better bet than a Porsche and F type (rear seats). A V8 Vantage has more storage, but 19mpg and high running costs is not anywhere as practical as the i8. 30 15 to the i8.
TECHNOLOGY
Tesla are far-out in front here, self driving, summon, tablet etc beats the i8 in the tech stakes which can't even self-park. The i8 tech is best described as latest, last gen stuff. 30 all.
OWNERSHIP
Both are 100% WDA tax vehicles with similar starting and real world 3 year trade values. Plus the running costs of the BMW is tiny compared to contemporary GT vehicles (5 yr servicing, free VED, 40mpg). In fact, it could easily be cheaper to run than a 4 cyl Boxster if you fund it through a company. The S is similarly cheap, if not cheaper unless you opt to have a second car.
So I make that a tie. There are some game changers; if you have kids, or go to the tip, or like understated cars then the i8 is not for you and the S is an excellent choice. However, if you'd gone through the fast car ownership, tried Porsche, Aston and Ferrari then an i8 is a serious contender - and certainly not a shouty F type.
Of course, if it's a BEV you want then the Model S is the winner as the i8 is a PHEV. But if you want drop-dead supercar style for Boxster money then the i8 wins.
They are, as I started out by saying, very different. And suit different needs and different folks.
The first thing that strikes me is how neither car has any real rivals, including each other, yet are so often compared. I fell into that trap, too.
LOOKS
There is no winner, per se. One is a rare 2+2 supercar with gullwing doors that looks like nothing else. The other a beautifully understated Jaguar-lookalike with 7 seats. Love all.
PERFORMANCE
The Model S is the king of the drag strip, super impressive, but it's one trick pony with possible range issues. The i8 is nimble, fast, sounds good and does 40mpg. I've come from fast cars and got bored of straight grunt and enjoy the nuances of a well setup GT car. And no one really tries to do the 3.9sec (i8) or 2.9sec (S) launch control. Still love all.
HANDLING
No contest here, the carbon tub in the i8 is super stiff meaning damping is easier to control. Not only does the i8 change direction quicker, stop more impressively it rides more compliantly and is easier the hustle. 15 love for the i8.
INTERIOR
The i8 is upmarket BMW fare. There is leather everywhere, stunning seats and it wraps around you like a drivers car. The rear seats are more people friendly for short distances than a 911 and double as storage not available in the boot. It feels a really rather special place to be. The S in interesting, it feels more amercun in build quality but the huge tablet is super cool. The S is also cavernous inside, swallowing everything you can throw at it. I think 99% of PHers would prefer to be in the head-up, driver-focused cockpit of the i8. 30 love to the i8.
PRACTICALITY/USABILITY
The S wins this by miles, it's a 5 door, 7 seat micro-bussed size vehicle with a flat floor and acres of storage. However, the i8 has a genuine 350 mile range and 40mpg and is a better bet than a Porsche and F type (rear seats). A V8 Vantage has more storage, but 19mpg and high running costs is not anywhere as practical as the i8. 30 15 to the i8.
TECHNOLOGY
Tesla are far-out in front here, self driving, summon, tablet etc beats the i8 in the tech stakes which can't even self-park. The i8 tech is best described as latest, last gen stuff. 30 all.
OWNERSHIP
Both are 100% WDA tax vehicles with similar starting and real world 3 year trade values. Plus the running costs of the BMW is tiny compared to contemporary GT vehicles (5 yr servicing, free VED, 40mpg). In fact, it could easily be cheaper to run than a 4 cyl Boxster if you fund it through a company. The S is similarly cheap, if not cheaper unless you opt to have a second car.
So I make that a tie. There are some game changers; if you have kids, or go to the tip, or like understated cars then the i8 is not for you and the S is an excellent choice. However, if you'd gone through the fast car ownership, tried Porsche, Aston and Ferrari then an i8 is a serious contender - and certainly not a shouty F type.
Of course, if it's a BEV you want then the Model S is the winner as the i8 is a PHEV. But if you want drop-dead supercar style for Boxster money then the i8 wins.
They are, as I started out by saying, very different. And suit different needs and different folks.
Edited by MrOrange on Monday 21st March 15:41
Mike_C said:
I agree the BMW has the edge on interior quality, but it's too busy and cluttered - the layout is awful, and most the quality is there, it's all so matt black and plastic. I get in the Tesla and there's leather, matt wood, alcantara on the dash and headliner (admittedly optional, but still...) - it just felt a nicer place to be.
Tech wise, I'd take Autopilot (and future generations of Summon) over a head-up display any day of the week, although both would be nice.
Not sure how you can fault the Tesla's transmission, it's just one gear and operates seamlessly?!
I'm not faulting the transmission - I'm just saying it's not high tech when there's nothing to it, whereas the i8 has much more complexity in balancing out different power sourcesTech wise, I'd take Autopilot (and future generations of Summon) over a head-up display any day of the week, although both would be nice.
Not sure how you can fault the Tesla's transmission, it's just one gear and operates seamlessly?!
Thanks for the reply MrOrange, interesting to read the thoughts of someone who bought one! 
Admittedly I didn't consider the i8 when I purchased the Tesla; simply because over my 85 mile commute (each way) it didn't offer me any benefit in terms of running costs over my BMW 335D, whereas the Tesla is practically free in comparison. However I really wanted to see how they compared.
I agree with a lot of your comments, the one that gets me though is the performance; the noise is so obviously faked (enhanced) and it really did not feel that quick to me either, I just don't get it? Honestly my 335D felt quicker (it was remapped, but still - the i8 is meant to be a supercar, of sorts!), so did my Cayman S for that matter. So I am confused as to what it is trying to be, more than anything?
Did handle nicely, though
Admittedly I didn't consider the i8 when I purchased the Tesla; simply because over my 85 mile commute (each way) it didn't offer me any benefit in terms of running costs over my BMW 335D, whereas the Tesla is practically free in comparison. However I really wanted to see how they compared.I agree with a lot of your comments, the one that gets me though is the performance; the noise is so obviously faked (enhanced) and it really did not feel that quick to me either, I just don't get it? Honestly my 335D felt quicker (it was remapped, but still - the i8 is meant to be a supercar, of sorts!), so did my Cayman S for that matter. So I am confused as to what it is trying to be, more than anything?
Did handle nicely, though
Mike_C said:
... the one that gets me though is the performance; the noise is so obviously faked (enhanced) and it really did not feel that quick to me either, I just don't get it? Honestly my 335D felt quicker (it was remapped, but still - the i8 is meant to be a supercar, of sorts!), so did my Cayman S for that matter. So I am confused as to what it is trying to be, more than anything?
The actual sense of "building acceleration" isn't there in the same way you get from an ICE. But sub 4 seconds to 60 is undeniably super-fast.My previous car was a C63, which certainly felt "quicker" in a more unruly and shouty way, much like my Cayman S but the i8 has that instant-surge thing. However, I didn't get as a drag car, you can spend sub 30k and easily get one of those. Besides, I have a litre bike for real acceleration rush, any car under 500k feels slow compared to a 200bhp bike.
For me, it's largely about "that supercar thing" with all the theatre of gull doors, near-future looks, silent running, early adoption, rarity, halo and a responsibility/smugness of incomparable efficiency through technology.
Enjoy your S. I was within a gnats cock of ordering one but the i8 had won my heart.
That's the bit I struggled with, because the performance claims sounded great but my seat-of-the-pants judgement was that the 0-60mph sprint in Sport mode was closer to 5-6 seconds, not the 4 seconds of my Model S! Obviously that is not an exact test, but the impression it gave me was not favourable sadly.
Having said that I was watching a couple of videos online last night, namely Chris Harris' review of the i8 in CA amongst others, and he seems to really like it, so I might see if the BMW dealer would be willing to lend one to me for an extended test drive over a weekend, perhaps. And from the front and side it does look stunning - not so sure about the back.
Also, the one I test drove was a very sombre, all-black interior; the video last night showed a mix of light cream and black, which really brightened the interior up nicely.
Having said that I was watching a couple of videos online last night, namely Chris Harris' review of the i8 in CA amongst others, and he seems to really like it, so I might see if the BMW dealer would be willing to lend one to me for an extended test drive over a weekend, perhaps. And from the front and side it does look stunning - not so sure about the back.
Also, the one I test drove was a very sombre, all-black interior; the video last night showed a mix of light cream and black, which really brightened the interior up nicely.
A remapped 335d would be one of the fastest real world car. More mid range than an m3.
Torquiest for sure.
So comparing the i8 to one is probably a compliment.
For me it is a package thing: looks, performance, handling, how it makes you feel. If it was all about straight line perf and nothing else, people would all buy nissan gtr and be done with it. Yet, people still buy cars with inferior performance: porsche, ferrari etc for much more money. Tells you a story.
I hear taxi in Amsterdam are mainly teslas now. Guys been running them for 2 years plus. They seemingly moan that they have become bag of nails over time.
What i am trying to say is that time will tell what stays in history..
The ride and handling of the i8 is the best i have experienced in any car.
Great idea that comparison thread!
Torquiest for sure.
So comparing the i8 to one is probably a compliment.
For me it is a package thing: looks, performance, handling, how it makes you feel. If it was all about straight line perf and nothing else, people would all buy nissan gtr and be done with it. Yet, people still buy cars with inferior performance: porsche, ferrari etc for much more money. Tells you a story.
I hear taxi in Amsterdam are mainly teslas now. Guys been running them for 2 years plus. They seemingly moan that they have become bag of nails over time.
What i am trying to say is that time will tell what stays in history..
The ride and handling of the i8 is the best i have experienced in any car.
Great idea that comparison thread!
I think the problem is in thinking of these as being in the same class. As EV becomes a more "normal" choice it makes less sense to make a comparison just because they are both EV cars.
They are completely different tools for driving, one is made as a performance sports car that uses EV to give better MPG than a comparatively performing sports car. the other is a family saloon that shows the potential of EV for delivering power and performance, but it's main focus remains as a family car.
I dont see why they would compete any more than a purely fossil fueled Porsche 911 does with a BMW 5 series. It seems strange to me that they are both on a buyers list when they are designed for completely different purposes, apart from the fact that they both have some similar elements of how they're powered.
They are completely different tools for driving, one is made as a performance sports car that uses EV to give better MPG than a comparatively performing sports car. the other is a family saloon that shows the potential of EV for delivering power and performance, but it's main focus remains as a family car.
I dont see why they would compete any more than a purely fossil fueled Porsche 911 does with a BMW 5 series. It seems strange to me that they are both on a buyers list when they are designed for completely different purposes, apart from the fact that they both have some similar elements of how they're powered.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 22 March 09:13
Thunderhead said:
I think the problem is in thinking of these as being in the same class. As EV becomes a more "normal" choice it makes less sense to make a comparison just because they are both EV cars.
I dont see why they would compete...apart from the fact that they both have some similar elements of how they're powered.
I think that's the point though, at the moment either car could be on a prospective owner's shopping list, MrOrange being a case in point. He considered both and went for an i8.I dont see why they would compete...apart from the fact that they both have some similar elements of how they're powered.
For me, I only considered the Tesla because I needed the practicality of carrying my mountain bike, snowboard, dog and whatever else I felt like chucking in there, so I fall into the latter camp you suggested.
The difference is that in these early days of EV/PHEV vehicle adoption, if someone specifically wants an EV/PHEV vehicle their choice is limited, so often the usual segmentation of vehicles doesn't apply. Some people will just have £XXX to spend on an EV/PHEV, what's out there? Not much at present! Hence I feel the comparison was still a relevant one. In the future, it will of course become far less relevant...
Thanks to all for the above, very informative. I had my first taste of an i8 just the other day as an introduction before I get one overnight to try over my normal daily commute route next week (+/-100miles round trip). I'm maybe a slightly different buyer though in that Im not looking to buy one to have/own as an alternative to a more established sports car e.g. a 911 but solely to drive something completely different for my daily commute and to take advantage of any financial benefits that these type of cars 'may' hold. These benefits, if they exist, for me are put into 2x categories - purchasing and running costs.
Its the cost benefits in purchasing that I need to get my head around and investigate further - along with my accountant! On the face of it, it looks like my business can claim the VAT back as it will be a 'business use only' vehicle and my business can also offset the cost of the car against tax in the first year - as long as its a new purchase. Sadly I think the i8 no longer qualifies for the government contribution as they have capped the vehicles value at £60k (or £65k?) for this benefit. BIK tax bracket looks to be 9% so there is still an element of personal tax to account for.
Running costs wise it seems that the i8 averages out anywhere between 35-40mpg. I think I could quite happily handle that and I'm looking forward to see what an i8 can do but another unknown is how much my electric bill will increase by if I have to plug it in and recharge the batteries every night? Then again it won't need to be plugged in every night with a range >300miles.
The i8 seems to be pitched against the Tesla S a lot but to be honest the Tesla wasn't even on my horizon but going by the above it would certainly be worth a look too - my fear would be though that I'd find its styling a bit bland and mundane after a while? As an alternative to the i8 I'm also looking at Porsche's Cayenne and Panamera E-Hybrids - both of which aren't exactly considered stylish but I do quite like the look of the new Volvo XC90 T8...nonecome anywhere to the visual impact of the i8 though!
However I may be duping myself and the cost to buy and run one of these cars is actually comparative to a new 911 in which case I will continue with the current mile muncher for now.
Its the cost benefits in purchasing that I need to get my head around and investigate further - along with my accountant! On the face of it, it looks like my business can claim the VAT back as it will be a 'business use only' vehicle and my business can also offset the cost of the car against tax in the first year - as long as its a new purchase. Sadly I think the i8 no longer qualifies for the government contribution as they have capped the vehicles value at £60k (or £65k?) for this benefit. BIK tax bracket looks to be 9% so there is still an element of personal tax to account for.
Running costs wise it seems that the i8 averages out anywhere between 35-40mpg. I think I could quite happily handle that and I'm looking forward to see what an i8 can do but another unknown is how much my electric bill will increase by if I have to plug it in and recharge the batteries every night? Then again it won't need to be plugged in every night with a range >300miles.
The i8 seems to be pitched against the Tesla S a lot but to be honest the Tesla wasn't even on my horizon but going by the above it would certainly be worth a look too - my fear would be though that I'd find its styling a bit bland and mundane after a while? As an alternative to the i8 I'm also looking at Porsche's Cayenne and Panamera E-Hybrids - both of which aren't exactly considered stylish but I do quite like the look of the new Volvo XC90 T8...nonecome anywhere to the visual impact of the i8 though!
However I may be duping myself and the cost to buy and run one of these cars is actually comparative to a new 911 in which case I will continue with the current mile muncher for now.
I think you'll struggle to reclaim the VAT as proving 100% business use is tough unless you're in the car rental business. It costs about a quid to charge, and has no VED charge. The £5k allowance is finished and the BMW deal that gets you a free charger is now over. You probably shouldn't be buying a £100k car to worry about mpg but, for reference the average across all i8 us currently 40mpg. If you do lots of short trips (<10 miles) and charge religiously you'll see well north of 75mpg, easily.
I just found the thinking odd - a tesla might be boring but looking at a Volvo? Dodgy tax advice. BIK rate wrong for 16/17.
If you want to run one you might be better buying a lightly used one with 25k off and charge the company 45p a mile. First year depreciation is pretty big unless you get a cracking deal.
If you want to run one you might be better buying a lightly used one with 25k off and charge the company 45p a mile. First year depreciation is pretty big unless you get a cracking deal.
Thanks for the replies, the info and advice, much appreciated as this is all new to me.
To be honest my thinking of what business use might well be different to what the HMRC think business use is so will see what my accountant comes back with. If I'm not eligible for the full range of benefits e.g. VAT back, tax write off etc then it'll likely not make much financial sense for me. But to be honest I'm averaging 25k miles per year in a DB9 so almost anything will be cheaper than that ;D The idea of buying a 1yr old car that has had a good bit of depreciation would certainly counter the VAT reclaim but Im sure it needs to be a new vehicle to allow it to be written of against my taxable profits? If I'm spending a chunk of money in tax then my thoughts are I might as welt a car out of it!
As for the Tesla - I don't think I said it was boring, just that I might get bored with its looks after a while - I should have maybe stressed that the other cars I mentioned were also in this category - the Porsches especially - with the Tesla and XC90 looking slightly better - the i8 just looks different/better/more futuristic than its competitors in my eyes - my wife thought the Tesla was a Vauxhall Insignia to begin with!
Yep my thinking that BIK at 9% is wrong right enough - its 7% for this 2016/17 year, 9% for next and 13% the following year so thanks for that - an even bigger benefit then this first year than I thought ;D
To be honest my thinking of what business use might well be different to what the HMRC think business use is so will see what my accountant comes back with. If I'm not eligible for the full range of benefits e.g. VAT back, tax write off etc then it'll likely not make much financial sense for me. But to be honest I'm averaging 25k miles per year in a DB9 so almost anything will be cheaper than that ;D The idea of buying a 1yr old car that has had a good bit of depreciation would certainly counter the VAT reclaim but Im sure it needs to be a new vehicle to allow it to be written of against my taxable profits? If I'm spending a chunk of money in tax then my thoughts are I might as welt a car out of it!
As for the Tesla - I don't think I said it was boring, just that I might get bored with its looks after a while - I should have maybe stressed that the other cars I mentioned were also in this category - the Porsches especially - with the Tesla and XC90 looking slightly better - the i8 just looks different/better/more futuristic than its competitors in my eyes - my wife thought the Tesla was a Vauxhall Insignia to begin with!
Yep my thinking that BIK at 9% is wrong right enough - its 7% for this 2016/17 year, 9% for next and 13% the following year so thanks for that - an even bigger benefit then this first year than I thought ;D
Well, in the interest of fairness and trying to understand the car more, I've had an i8 on loan for the past 24 hours or more. In that time, I've warmed to a few aspects of the car, but also found some more gripes. Thoughts (for anyone who is interested) as follows:
Positives - the handling really is superb, had several really good blasts on some seriously fun roads and it's great. The carbon fibre chassis/tub provides great rigidity, there's great feedback through the steering wheel, even the 'enhanced' exhaust noise was enjoyable thrashing along in sport mode. The blips on downshifts are entertaining, the driving position is supportive, etc etc. and the head-up display is cool. It also gets a lot of looks, I do love the front end and side view although the rear looks odd to me. And the doors certainly have a 'wow' factor. And it cruises very swiftly, you really don't feel the speed you're doing at all!
Negatives - the overall impression is it's not fully thought through, particularly for the price. So for instance, in Sport mode it sounds great, the seats hug you well and the suspension is firm. But on a £100k car, when I shift to Comfort mode I expect the seat bolsters to relax, the suspension to go to a softer setting, etc. - this isn't rocket science for BMW, they do it in M5's/M6's, etc. so why not on the i8? The seats were snug but on a motorway journey it gave me back ache as there's no room to move about, and the suspension is too firm for anything but sporty driving on smooth roads. Porsche's PASM system shows how well a sports car can ride on rough roads, and be firmed up for smooth roads or track. And Comfort mode doesn't charge the battery for some reason?!
Also, those cool looking doors are a pain when parking, you've got no idea if you're about to take the neighbouring cars wing mirror off. It's impossible to navigate the iDrive on the screen, the symbols are tiny and make no sense and the menu structure is a nonsense, verging on dangerous trying to operate it whilst driving. The rear seats are useless if your passengers have legs. Or a head. The boot is tiny, although you can get a small suitcase on the useless back seats. And whilst it's certainly quick when you get it going and can carry huge corner speeds, it's not remotely exciting when accelerating. Off the line, my Tesla (P85+) would destroy it, and as I said before, my old 335D Touring was faster when overtaking.
So honestly, apart from the "latest toy" factor, I still don't get it. It's just too comrpimised and not well thought out enough. And it's not even economical? Thrashing it down my favourite roads, I was getting 12-15mpg - worst than any Cayman or 911, and about the same as an Aston. Cruising on the motorway I was getting 29mpg, and it crept up to 32mpg taking it really easy with the missus in the car, and I'm sorry but for a car that light and with an electric motor, that is crap. My old Cayman S was more efficient, more genuine, more practical and handled just as well, for half the price. So I'm sorry, I still can't see a reason for buying an i8, but for those that have I hope they enjoy it very much!
Positives - the handling really is superb, had several really good blasts on some seriously fun roads and it's great. The carbon fibre chassis/tub provides great rigidity, there's great feedback through the steering wheel, even the 'enhanced' exhaust noise was enjoyable thrashing along in sport mode. The blips on downshifts are entertaining, the driving position is supportive, etc etc. and the head-up display is cool. It also gets a lot of looks, I do love the front end and side view although the rear looks odd to me. And the doors certainly have a 'wow' factor. And it cruises very swiftly, you really don't feel the speed you're doing at all!
Negatives - the overall impression is it's not fully thought through, particularly for the price. So for instance, in Sport mode it sounds great, the seats hug you well and the suspension is firm. But on a £100k car, when I shift to Comfort mode I expect the seat bolsters to relax, the suspension to go to a softer setting, etc. - this isn't rocket science for BMW, they do it in M5's/M6's, etc. so why not on the i8? The seats were snug but on a motorway journey it gave me back ache as there's no room to move about, and the suspension is too firm for anything but sporty driving on smooth roads. Porsche's PASM system shows how well a sports car can ride on rough roads, and be firmed up for smooth roads or track. And Comfort mode doesn't charge the battery for some reason?!
Also, those cool looking doors are a pain when parking, you've got no idea if you're about to take the neighbouring cars wing mirror off. It's impossible to navigate the iDrive on the screen, the symbols are tiny and make no sense and the menu structure is a nonsense, verging on dangerous trying to operate it whilst driving. The rear seats are useless if your passengers have legs. Or a head. The boot is tiny, although you can get a small suitcase on the useless back seats. And whilst it's certainly quick when you get it going and can carry huge corner speeds, it's not remotely exciting when accelerating. Off the line, my Tesla (P85+) would destroy it, and as I said before, my old 335D Touring was faster when overtaking.
So honestly, apart from the "latest toy" factor, I still don't get it. It's just too comrpimised and not well thought out enough. And it's not even economical? Thrashing it down my favourite roads, I was getting 12-15mpg - worst than any Cayman or 911, and about the same as an Aston. Cruising on the motorway I was getting 29mpg, and it crept up to 32mpg taking it really easy with the missus in the car, and I'm sorry but for a car that light and with an electric motor, that is crap. My old Cayman S was more efficient, more genuine, more practical and handled just as well, for half the price. So I'm sorry, I still can't see a reason for buying an i8, but for those that have I hope they enjoy it very much!
Nice to wake up the topic, having now completed 1300 miles in my car, and using it day to day for short runs, long runs, blasts and a couple of 300 mile round trips I have invested the time to get to understand the car, it's traits and strengths and weaknesses.
It's also now run-in so will do the silly launch thing. It's nuts and a bit pointless as its zero to ban in under 5 seconds.
Good: the performance is good, better than it seems and it's hardly believable that I'm averaging 42mpg since I got it. The ride is quite magic carpet, especially in comfort mode where it's so lightly damped you'd swear it was a Lotus. Even in Sport mode the ride is miles better than my C63, Aston V8V or Cayman S. I suspect the ultra stuff chassis allows better body control without having to resort to bone-jarring damping.
After a few days of being tentative, the doors are just great, you need less than 2 ft space to open them and you soon get used to parking in tighter-than-you'd-think spaces. The rear seat space has been a revelation, I've had a 6 ft mate in the back and you'd be able to carry quite a lot of stuff there easily. Much more usable than a 911, although I wouldn't suggest long journeys as the seat backs are quite upright.
The serene driving position makes every journey a real pleasure - it really can play the role of two cars: the Audi A8 executive comfort express and the 911 GT blaster. It's not a track car, but it also very much a mans car, I've only seen the odd one or two and all have been piloted by powerfully-built company director PH types. No hairdressers, or bleached blondes in sight.
It does FWD, RWD and AWD on demand and under your control. In fact the seamless way the three power plants work together to power and recharge the car is a bloody marvel.
Remote app is fab, pre-warming the car and pre-conditioning the batteries prior to leaving makes for a pleasant environment and an improved range. Speaking of which, I managed 300 miles in a single trip at an average of 39mpg without any fuel or charges stops. Half my journeys use either no fuel or so little they record over 100mpg.
The predictive driving mode works brilliantly in Eco-Pro mode when just pottering around, it has the knack of timing the engine start just before hills and prior to faster roads to better optimise fuel/power unit use. This works better if you use the Sat Nav as it creates a power train profile to suit the journey. This sounds complex but once you know what it's doing you just leave it to carry out its job.
Finally, it really is still a rare sight and gets a genuine "wow" when folks find out I have one. It's boyhood dream material for someone who's "done the sports car and super saloon thing". Which gives it a very small target market - it might even make it to a classic status.
Bad: the seats lack lateral support when really pushing on and the lack of a memory feature is annoying. It's not a car to go scratching in, it starts to push wide under throttle and you have to switch off the TC to keep progress swift and that's risky on the road.
The stereo is not as good as I've come to expect, it might may Harman Kardon but Amstrad would be more appropriate. The gloss black panels seem quite fragile and scuff-up easily. iDrive is, like most major manufacturers effort, barely usable - it has lots of functions but much is clunky.
It charges much faster in Sport mode than Eco-Pro, which is frustrating as dropping the car into quick charge/sport mode stiffens the ride when you don't need it.
When the engine is cold (and this might be after 30 mins driving) the performance is a little sluggish. With no temp gauge you really have no idea whether the ICE is ready to be caned.
It took me a week or so to get to grips with the technology, how to drive to maximise regen and to learn that the car works much better when it's been pre-conditioned.
It's also now run-in so will do the silly launch thing. It's nuts and a bit pointless as its zero to ban in under 5 seconds.
Good: the performance is good, better than it seems and it's hardly believable that I'm averaging 42mpg since I got it. The ride is quite magic carpet, especially in comfort mode where it's so lightly damped you'd swear it was a Lotus. Even in Sport mode the ride is miles better than my C63, Aston V8V or Cayman S. I suspect the ultra stuff chassis allows better body control without having to resort to bone-jarring damping.
After a few days of being tentative, the doors are just great, you need less than 2 ft space to open them and you soon get used to parking in tighter-than-you'd-think spaces. The rear seat space has been a revelation, I've had a 6 ft mate in the back and you'd be able to carry quite a lot of stuff there easily. Much more usable than a 911, although I wouldn't suggest long journeys as the seat backs are quite upright.
The serene driving position makes every journey a real pleasure - it really can play the role of two cars: the Audi A8 executive comfort express and the 911 GT blaster. It's not a track car, but it also very much a mans car, I've only seen the odd one or two and all have been piloted by powerfully-built company director PH types. No hairdressers, or bleached blondes in sight.
It does FWD, RWD and AWD on demand and under your control. In fact the seamless way the three power plants work together to power and recharge the car is a bloody marvel.
Remote app is fab, pre-warming the car and pre-conditioning the batteries prior to leaving makes for a pleasant environment and an improved range. Speaking of which, I managed 300 miles in a single trip at an average of 39mpg without any fuel or charges stops. Half my journeys use either no fuel or so little they record over 100mpg.
The predictive driving mode works brilliantly in Eco-Pro mode when just pottering around, it has the knack of timing the engine start just before hills and prior to faster roads to better optimise fuel/power unit use. This works better if you use the Sat Nav as it creates a power train profile to suit the journey. This sounds complex but once you know what it's doing you just leave it to carry out its job.
Finally, it really is still a rare sight and gets a genuine "wow" when folks find out I have one. It's boyhood dream material for someone who's "done the sports car and super saloon thing". Which gives it a very small target market - it might even make it to a classic status.
Bad: the seats lack lateral support when really pushing on and the lack of a memory feature is annoying. It's not a car to go scratching in, it starts to push wide under throttle and you have to switch off the TC to keep progress swift and that's risky on the road.
The stereo is not as good as I've come to expect, it might may Harman Kardon but Amstrad would be more appropriate. The gloss black panels seem quite fragile and scuff-up easily. iDrive is, like most major manufacturers effort, barely usable - it has lots of functions but much is clunky.
It charges much faster in Sport mode than Eco-Pro, which is frustrating as dropping the car into quick charge/sport mode stiffens the ride when you don't need it.
When the engine is cold (and this might be after 30 mins driving) the performance is a little sluggish. With no temp gauge you really have no idea whether the ICE is ready to be caned.
It took me a week or so to get to grips with the technology, how to drive to maximise regen and to learn that the car works much better when it's been pre-conditioned.
MrOrange said:
It's also now run-in so will do the silly launch thing. It's nuts and a bit pointless as its zero to ban in under 5 seconds.
Please tell me more - do you get a message or something - I thought it was holding back.As regards the other comments - each to their own on this one - I wanted an individual sports car and have no need for a fast seven seater so there was no contest between these two.
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