What happened to the Renault fluence?
Discussion
The fluence was one of the first cars to have a rented battery.
A few years back there were loads up for sale, now I can only find 2.
As the value plummeted did these cars get handed back to Renault somehow? Are used buyers not prepared to shell out the (at least) £77 a month for battery rental?
Really interested to see what happens to these cars... Hopefully after a number of years the battery owners will just write them off and the cars can then be sold with battery ownership.
A few years back there were loads up for sale, now I can only find 2.
As the value plummeted did these cars get handed back to Renault somehow? Are used buyers not prepared to shell out the (at least) £77 a month for battery rental?
Really interested to see what happens to these cars... Hopefully after a number of years the battery owners will just write them off and the cars can then be sold with battery ownership.
was8v said:
The fluence was one of the first cars to have a rented battery.
A few years back there were loads up for sale, now I can only find 2.
As the value plummeted did these cars get handed back to Renault somehow? Are used buyers not prepared to shell out the (at least) £77 a month for battery rental?
Really interested to see what happens to these cars... Hopefully after a number of years the battery owners will just write them off and the cars can then be sold with battery ownership.
There is less than 70 of these in the UK,So I wouldn't hold my breath .. I don't think the range was very good on these anyway .. A few years back there were loads up for sale, now I can only find 2.
As the value plummeted did these cars get handed back to Renault somehow? Are used buyers not prepared to shell out the (at least) £77 a month for battery rental?
Really interested to see what happens to these cars... Hopefully after a number of years the battery owners will just write them off and the cars can then be sold with battery ownership.
More than likely these will be returned after the lease and crushed
Joedarkness said:
There is less than 70 of these in the UK,So I wouldn't hold my breath .. I don't think the range was very good on these anyway ..
More than likely these will be returned after the lease and crushed
Thats it. it seems at the end of the battery lease the car is pretty much worthless. Renault offers to buy it off the seller just so they don't have the awkward situation where they need to take the battery back but not the car....Reckon it would be more constructive to sell the battery at a grand or so, but maybe that then sets a precident for future more popular models.More than likely these will be returned after the lease and crushed
Seems Renault would prefer a business model like inkjet printers, a masive step back really.
I can see the Zoe going the same way, the ones with the rented battery anyway.
Our pcp ends of year in December with a GFV of £8k +battery rent from £50/month. You would be mad to buy it off them for that.
The monthly rent essentially wipes out any fuel saving and leaves you driving a car that only renault know how to fix. Not a good place to be I reckon.
Our pcp ends of year in December with a GFV of £8k +battery rent from £50/month. You would be mad to buy it off them for that.
The monthly rent essentially wipes out any fuel saving and leaves you driving a car that only renault know how to fix. Not a good place to be I reckon.
dave_s13 said:
I can see the Zoe going the same way, the ones with the rented battery anyway.
Our pcp ends of year in December with a GFV of £8k +battery rent from £50/month. You would be mad to buy it off them for that.
The monthly rent essentially wipes out any fuel saving and leaves you driving a car that only renault know how to fix. Not a good place to be I reckon.
Can you buy one with the battery ?.. The only one's I have seen are the battery rental ones Our pcp ends of year in December with a GFV of £8k +battery rent from £50/month. You would be mad to buy it off them for that.
The monthly rent essentially wipes out any fuel saving and leaves you driving a car that only renault know how to fix. Not a good place to be I reckon.
Yes you can buy it with a battery, but it's £5,000 more. (that's about a third of the price)
For a 36 month+ contract, 12,000 miles per annum is £73 a month in rental. So a 3 year contract would cost you £2,628 in rental, and it would take 68.5 months (almost 7 years) to hit that £5,000 difference. At which point your car would have almost 70,000 miles on.
I don't know what you'd consider a good break even point, but with the rate of change technology wise I think I'd be upgrading before that.
For a 36 month+ contract, 12,000 miles per annum is £73 a month in rental. So a 3 year contract would cost you £2,628 in rental, and it would take 68.5 months (almost 7 years) to hit that £5,000 difference. At which point your car would have almost 70,000 miles on.
I don't know what you'd consider a good break even point, but with the rate of change technology wise I think I'd be upgrading before that.
strudel said:
Yes you can buy it with a battery, but it's £5,000 more. (that's about a third of the price)
For a 36 month+ contract, 12,000 miles per annum is £73 a month in rental. So a 3 year contract would cost you £2,628 in rental, and it would take 68.5 months (almost 7 years) to hit that £5,000 difference. At which point your car would have almost 70,000 miles on.
I don't know what you'd consider a good break even point, but with the rate of change technology wise I think I'd be upgrading before that.
That brings up a more interesting point ... more earlier Leafs the battery is bought and you can pick up a 2011/12 leaf for 7000UKP but as all the PCP deals finish there is going to be a lot of ex-PCP cars with the flex battery rental which no second hand car buyer wants whats going to happen then ?For a 36 month+ contract, 12,000 miles per annum is £73 a month in rental. So a 3 year contract would cost you £2,628 in rental, and it would take 68.5 months (almost 7 years) to hit that £5,000 difference. At which point your car would have almost 70,000 miles on.
I don't know what you'd consider a good break even point, but with the rate of change technology wise I think I'd be upgrading before that.
I have noticed that some of the Autotrader Adds don't even say if the battery is owned or not
Well, Joe & Strudel, I for one will be keeping a close eye on used non-Flex Leaf Teknas over the next couple of years - they could turn out to be a great used buy with the more practical dark interiors, heat-pump air conditioning and better batteries.
Returning to the original topic about the Fluence, I reckon as a secondhand buy, they're only viable in areas like central London with high congestion charges to save money on, low speeds and ample charging opportunities as those batteries ranges decline. It's a pity Renault won't allow them to be sold without battery, but they're probably embarrassed about them and with so few of them in the UK, it's easy for Renault to 'make them disappear'. I read a thread about Twizy owners considering telling Renault that they wanted to put the vehicle into storage so the battery wasn't required until further notice, to avoid ridiculous battery rental fees. Someone could try that with a Fluence. I don't think Renault would contest it in court (bad press risk) but may take the battery out of spite. What's a Fluence worth with no battery pack? That'd be an interesting project for someone with deep pockets and a battery pack from a written-off Leaf...
Returning to the original topic about the Fluence, I reckon as a secondhand buy, they're only viable in areas like central London with high congestion charges to save money on, low speeds and ample charging opportunities as those batteries ranges decline. It's a pity Renault won't allow them to be sold without battery, but they're probably embarrassed about them and with so few of them in the UK, it's easy for Renault to 'make them disappear'. I read a thread about Twizy owners considering telling Renault that they wanted to put the vehicle into storage so the battery wasn't required until further notice, to avoid ridiculous battery rental fees. Someone could try that with a Fluence. I don't think Renault would contest it in court (bad press risk) but may take the battery out of spite. What's a Fluence worth with no battery pack? That'd be an interesting project for someone with deep pockets and a battery pack from a written-off Leaf...
Joedarkness said:
strudel said:
Yes you can buy it with a battery, but it's £5,000 more. (that's about a third of the price)
For a 36 month+ contract, 12,000 miles per annum is £73 a month in rental. So a 3 year contract would cost you £2,628 in rental, and it would take 68.5 months (almost 7 years) to hit that £5,000 difference. At which point your car would have almost 70,000 miles on.
I don't know what you'd consider a good break even point, but with the rate of change technology wise I think I'd be upgrading before that.
That brings up a more interesting point ... more earlier Leafs the battery is bought and you can pick up a 2011/12 leaf for 7000UKP but as all the PCP deals finish there is going to be a lot of ex-PCP cars with the flex battery rental which no second hand car buyer wants whats going to happen then ?For a 36 month+ contract, 12,000 miles per annum is £73 a month in rental. So a 3 year contract would cost you £2,628 in rental, and it would take 68.5 months (almost 7 years) to hit that £5,000 difference. At which point your car would have almost 70,000 miles on.
I don't know what you'd consider a good break even point, but with the rate of change technology wise I think I'd be upgrading before that.
I have noticed that some of the Autotrader Adds don't even say if the battery is owned or not
As it currently stands and the uncertainty with the technology and its future, the best and most cost effective way to purchase a ZOE is new using the PCP with the £5060 deposit contribution and leasing the battery, so come the end of the PCP if the car is worthless you just hand it back and let Renault worry about the car.
As far as I can tell it seems the only people that will buy a used fluence at the end of battery lease at a decent price is Renault themselves in part exchange for a new car. So it would appear they are keeping or crushing them... As said, I wonder what Nissan will do.
Maybe they just got their market research wrong (assumed trust in the battery itself would be low). However it seems the batteries are good (i.e. not failing all the time) so they do actually make a good ownership proposition.
I guess the manufacturers were hoping to have a new revenue stream with these cars, keep the battery rental going for the life of the car (10 years / 100k) and then crush it and sell a new one. I suppose they would like to control all cars in this way - so their business is loaning cars rather than selling them. Indications show companies like Porsche make more profit off finance than they do the cars themselves....Most business vans are leased not bought..... Computer game console makers make more off games than consoles, inkjet printer manufacturers make more off cartridges than printers.
Maybe they are trying to push us into a situation where the car will be a loss leader, and the money is made off the battery rental over the life of the vehicle?
If thats so it's not really working out for them, but in economies of the future it could end up being more attractive if they manipulate the market.
Maybe they just got their market research wrong (assumed trust in the battery itself would be low). However it seems the batteries are good (i.e. not failing all the time) so they do actually make a good ownership proposition.
I guess the manufacturers were hoping to have a new revenue stream with these cars, keep the battery rental going for the life of the car (10 years / 100k) and then crush it and sell a new one. I suppose they would like to control all cars in this way - so their business is loaning cars rather than selling them. Indications show companies like Porsche make more profit off finance than they do the cars themselves....Most business vans are leased not bought..... Computer game console makers make more off games than consoles, inkjet printer manufacturers make more off cartridges than printers.
Maybe they are trying to push us into a situation where the car will be a loss leader, and the money is made off the battery rental over the life of the vehicle?
If thats so it's not really working out for them, but in economies of the future it could end up being more attractive if they manipulate the market.
Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff