Ampera/Volt - What happened?
Discussion
As you might guess from recent posts I am looking at EV/Hybrid cars as a next car. I have weighed up Leaf/Zoe and have investigated Prius GenII/GenIII. Then the other day I was behind a car I had forgotten all about and so it seems has everyone else; The Chevy Voltz\Opel Ampera.
I did some research and watched some YT videos from users. To my eye this seems like a car that would present the "perfect compromise" to many would be Hybrid owners.
A decent battery of 16kWh (with 35% of that kept in reserve all times, so 11 kWh usable capacity) giving range of 40 miles and a small petrol engine to extend the range to a genuine 300 plus. Its entirely conceivable that for the majority of journeys you'd never need the petrol engine. Indeed, many users do report having never visited a petrol station for months. More range than a Prius, same kind of planetary gearbox that can blend power from the 2 electric motors and the petrol engine (though the latter can never fully run the car on its own).
For me the car seems almost ideal. OH has a 36 mi round trip for work with charge points available at work. The 11 kWh capacity would take 3-4 hours from a normal 13 amp plug, easily doable overnight. Our other frequent trips to Loughborough, Nottingham, Leicester and Derby outskirts are also all easily within the EV range.
To my eye it would suit a hell of a lot of people. So why has it flopped? Why have they stopped selling and why aren't we getting the improved Volt 2?
I guess price was a big factor, it was expensive even with the grants. The 1.4 petrol was lambasted for not being very high tech (no Direct Injection etc), and if used regularly would return only maybe low 40's MPG, making it no better than other small petrols and much worse than small diesels.
Though IMO I really don't think its as bad as reviewers made out, certainly NA petrol engine efficiency and fuel consumption hasn't really improved in great strides so I don't think we'll be seeing vast improvement from the new GDI 1.5 they will put in the new one. We're at a bit of a plateau in engine thermal efficiency.
Though I did hear the Ampera used a different engine to the Volt which was a bit more refined. Some reviews do mention the engine being intrusive, others say they never heard a peep from it, even when it kicked in. Some appeared not to really understand how the car was meant to work. Either way it doesn't sound any worse than what you'd get in a Prius and perhaps better in terms of interior quality and refinement.
So what happened and do we think that as a used buy, they represent a good idea? By all accounts it seems like an underrated machine.
I did some research and watched some YT videos from users. To my eye this seems like a car that would present the "perfect compromise" to many would be Hybrid owners.
A decent battery of 16kWh (with 35% of that kept in reserve all times, so 11 kWh usable capacity) giving range of 40 miles and a small petrol engine to extend the range to a genuine 300 plus. Its entirely conceivable that for the majority of journeys you'd never need the petrol engine. Indeed, many users do report having never visited a petrol station for months. More range than a Prius, same kind of planetary gearbox that can blend power from the 2 electric motors and the petrol engine (though the latter can never fully run the car on its own).
For me the car seems almost ideal. OH has a 36 mi round trip for work with charge points available at work. The 11 kWh capacity would take 3-4 hours from a normal 13 amp plug, easily doable overnight. Our other frequent trips to Loughborough, Nottingham, Leicester and Derby outskirts are also all easily within the EV range.
To my eye it would suit a hell of a lot of people. So why has it flopped? Why have they stopped selling and why aren't we getting the improved Volt 2?
I guess price was a big factor, it was expensive even with the grants. The 1.4 petrol was lambasted for not being very high tech (no Direct Injection etc), and if used regularly would return only maybe low 40's MPG, making it no better than other small petrols and much worse than small diesels.
Though IMO I really don't think its as bad as reviewers made out, certainly NA petrol engine efficiency and fuel consumption hasn't really improved in great strides so I don't think we'll be seeing vast improvement from the new GDI 1.5 they will put in the new one. We're at a bit of a plateau in engine thermal efficiency.
Though I did hear the Ampera used a different engine to the Volt which was a bit more refined. Some reviews do mention the engine being intrusive, others say they never heard a peep from it, even when it kicked in. Some appeared not to really understand how the car was meant to work. Either way it doesn't sound any worse than what you'd get in a Prius and perhaps better in terms of interior quality and refinement.
So what happened and do we think that as a used buy, they represent a good idea? By all accounts it seems like an underrated machine.
Three things put me off the Ampera:
1: Price
2: Only 2 rear seats
3: It's a Vauxhall - Yes I'm a badge snob
There is a 'new' Volt due on sale in the US anytime now, but due to very poor sales of the Ampera here in the UK, there is no plans for a RHD version.
Used ones are getting cheap now though, but still doesn't solve point 2/3, I still wouldn't buy one at £15K.
If your OH can make do with 60-70 miles of EV range daily, than a used Leaf at £8K is still cheaper to buy/run.
1: Price
2: Only 2 rear seats
3: It's a Vauxhall - Yes I'm a badge snob
There is a 'new' Volt due on sale in the US anytime now, but due to very poor sales of the Ampera here in the UK, there is no plans for a RHD version.
Used ones are getting cheap now though, but still doesn't solve point 2/3, I still wouldn't buy one at £15K.
If your OH can make do with 60-70 miles of EV range daily, than a used Leaf at £8K is still cheaper to buy/run.
Edited by gangzoom on Thursday 27th August 10:07
gangzoom said:
Three things put me off the Ampera:
1: Price
2: Only 2 rear seats
3: It's a Vauxhall - Yes I'm a badge snob
There is a 'new' Volt due on sale in the US anytime now, but due to very poor sales of the Ampera here in the UK, there is no plans for a RHD version.
Used ones are getting cheap now though, but still doesn't solve point 2/3, I still wouldn't buy one at £15K.
If your OH can make do with 60-70 miles of EV range daily, than a used Leaf at £8K is still cheaper to buy/run.
Perhaps, but we do make more than occasional long journeys which would then fall to having to use my Volvo at low 30's MPG. We like going to Cornwall, I've checked, no I don't want to stop to recharge 4-5 times lol! Its already a long journey. Though perhaps purchase cost and running cost would cover that. I did not know you could get a leaf for 8k! 1: Price
2: Only 2 rear seats
3: It's a Vauxhall - Yes I'm a badge snob
There is a 'new' Volt due on sale in the US anytime now, but due to very poor sales of the Ampera here in the UK, there is no plans for a RHD version.
Used ones are getting cheap now though, but still doesn't solve point 2/3, I still wouldn't buy one at £15K.
If your OH can make do with 60-70 miles of EV range daily, than a used Leaf at £8K is still cheaper to buy/run.
Edited by gangzoom on Thursday 27th August 10:07
Suprising though that they have such things as EV charging points down there. They don't even have mobile phone signal and have only just discovered the street lamp and roads that are wider than your car!
I am a badge snob too, I generally hate Vauxhalls. But this, isnt really a Vauxhall, in the same way the Monaro and the VXR8 aren't. So I can see past that on this occasion.
I forgot to mention the Ampera is some 1700kg as well! Thats a lot of weight to heft around, alot of it you aren't using most of the time.
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Thursday 27th August 11:23
Otispunkmeyer said:
With the leaf, what is generally regarded as the model to go for used? currently looking at a tekna flex at £10k from Evans at the moment, but no idea if its a good un or a bad un.
The generation one Leafs are the ones going for £7-8K. They have a less reliable battery pack, so more prone to range loss. The newer cars (post 2013) have a better battery pack + on all but the base spec model have bettery heating unit - very very efficent and quick to work. The 'Flex' deals mean you have to pay £80/month on going for battery rental from Nissan for the life of the car. They are too be avoided, and they make judging prices very hard to do. I think the cheapest 'current' generation Leaf that includes battery is going for just over £10K at the moment.
PCP deals are still pretty compelling for the Leaf vs used and agree with GZ to avoid the Flex
Also when you 'buy' new you get 14 days of free hire of a 'normal' nissan. So for your trips down south borrow a juke/note/pulsar type thing (maybe QQ?) for free. Even if you need 4 weeks a year, just hire a car for 2 of them (approx £200?) and use Nissan's cars for the other 2?
When the current new models reaches sub £9-10k then I think going used would be good for those doing high-ish miles and/or people happy to hold on to cars for more than 3 years
Also when you 'buy' new you get 14 days of free hire of a 'normal' nissan. So for your trips down south borrow a juke/note/pulsar type thing (maybe QQ?) for free. Even if you need 4 weeks a year, just hire a car for 2 of them (approx £200?) and use Nissan's cars for the other 2?
When the current new models reaches sub £9-10k then I think going used would be good for those doing high-ish miles and/or people happy to hold on to cars for more than 3 years
deanobeano said:
Wanted to add:
ICE MPG is really more like 50 MPG in UK figures.
When it was launched, it was too expensive.
But at 15-18K it has it merits.
My average MPG over 18 k miles is 99.7
What I like about it is its rarity. You don't see many of them about.
Good to hear. How do you find its motorway manners? A bit noisy or decently hushed (like any other car in that segment)?ICE MPG is really more like 50 MPG in UK figures.
When it was launched, it was too expensive.
But at 15-18K it has it merits.
My average MPG over 18 k miles is 99.7
What I like about it is its rarity. You don't see many of them about.
I came very close to buying an Ampera new.
Cargo space was the killer for me. Would have been OK if it would take a roof rack. Salesman called Vauxhall HQ, when I pointed him to all the pictures online of people putting roof racks on, but the official line is that they are not acceptable. So small boot killed the deal.
Situation has changed now so looking at them again. However I would really prefer the new Chevy Volt. Interior looks a lot better, range has increased, but not going to be offered in Europe at all.
Cargo space was the killer for me. Would have been OK if it would take a roof rack. Salesman called Vauxhall HQ, when I pointed him to all the pictures online of people putting roof racks on, but the official line is that they are not acceptable. So small boot killed the deal.
Situation has changed now so looking at them again. However I would really prefer the new Chevy Volt. Interior looks a lot better, range has increased, but not going to be offered in Europe at all.
I'd consider an Ampera if the price was right, but as a Leaf owner I can't help thinking that carrying around a petrol engine is a step backwards in every way.
All we need is a decent charging infrastructure because I can get around 70 miles of charge in 20 minutes. Improve the batteries a bit, speed up charging a bit and suddenly 100 miles/15 minutes is possible.
With that kind of charge time something like a 250 mile trip will only take an additional 30-40 minutes, and taking those breaks isn't a bad thing anyway.
All we need is a decent charging infrastructure because I can get around 70 miles of charge in 20 minutes. Improve the batteries a bit, speed up charging a bit and suddenly 100 miles/15 minutes is possible.
With that kind of charge time something like a 250 mile trip will only take an additional 30-40 minutes, and taking those breaks isn't a bad thing anyway.
Perhaps they're making way for this:
http://europe.autonews.com/article/20150304/ANE/15...
Just my theory anyway - not sure why they stopped making them though!
http://europe.autonews.com/article/20150304/ANE/15...
Just my theory anyway - not sure why they stopped making them though!
jpringle819 said:
I thought I read that it was a massive flop everywhere but the UK and it only worked here due to the grants available. As those grants are being phased out and reduced it is no longer viable.
I thought it had done quite well in the US? Seems to be many US folk on YT raving about them, including Matt Farah from the SmokingTire. The normal Prius isn't really a competitor because it has minimal electric range, only up to 30 mph as well. Its more an ICE car with motor assist. The Volt is an electric car, with electric drive and ICE assist. The engine only acts as a charger and extender (and can partially drive the wheels if you really really need it).
The Plug-In prius is probably a better comparison, but even then I think the Volt's drive train is still markedly different. I mean the Electric Motor is 150 odd BHP, it can power the car right up to top speed all on its own. The Prius motor cannot do that.
Otispunkmeyer said:
I thought it had done quite well in the US? Seems to be many US folk on YT raving about them, including Matt Farah from the SmokingTire.
The normal Prius isn't really a competitor because it has minimal electric range, only up to 30 mph as well. Its more an ICE car with motor assist. The Volt is an electric car, with electric drive and ICE assist. The engine only acts as a charger and extender (and can partially drive the wheels if you really really need it).
The Plug-In prius is probably a better comparison, but even then I think the Volt's drive train is still markedly different. I mean the Electric Motor is 150 odd BHP, it can power the car right up to top speed all on its own. The Prius motor cannot do that.
Yup. I've tried most of the plug in hybrid vehicles. But the Ampera/Volt is the only one that really struck me as being better than a normal ICE. It gives you that electric car driving experience because it can drive just like an electric car. It can drive like an ICE as well. Best of both worlds.The normal Prius isn't really a competitor because it has minimal electric range, only up to 30 mph as well. Its more an ICE car with motor assist. The Volt is an electric car, with electric drive and ICE assist. The engine only acts as a charger and extender (and can partially drive the wheels if you really really need it).
The Plug-In prius is probably a better comparison, but even then I think the Volt's drive train is still markedly different. I mean the Electric Motor is 150 odd BHP, it can power the car right up to top speed all on its own. The Prius motor cannot do that.
Otispunkmeyer said:
I thought it had done quite well in the US? Seems to be many US folk on YT raving about them, including Matt Farah from the SmokingTire.
The normal Prius isn't really a competitor because it has minimal electric range, only up to 30 mph as well. Its more an ICE car with motor assist. The Volt is an electric car, with electric drive and ICE assist. The engine only acts as a charger and extender (and can partially drive the wheels if you really really need it).
The Plug-In prius is probably a better comparison, but even then I think the Volt's drive train is still markedly different. I mean the Electric Motor is 150 odd BHP, it can power the car right up to top speed all on its own. The Prius motor cannot do that.
Actually the Prius will do 42 mph in full electric mode , I've had an indicated 45mph out of mine , pointless I know The normal Prius isn't really a competitor because it has minimal electric range, only up to 30 mph as well. Its more an ICE car with motor assist. The Volt is an electric car, with electric drive and ICE assist. The engine only acts as a charger and extender (and can partially drive the wheels if you really really need it).
The Plug-In prius is probably a better comparison, but even then I think the Volt's drive train is still markedly different. I mean the Electric Motor is 150 odd BHP, it can power the car right up to top speed all on its own. The Prius motor cannot do that.
Anybody any views on these as a used purchase? We're going to start looking soon and there are various vehicles on the list, 2 petrols and 2 EV with RX, one of which would be the Ampera.
They seem to come with an awful lot of kit for a reasonable price on the used market. My thinking is that if there's no new variant on the way then residuals could remain strong?
They seem to come with an awful lot of kit for a reasonable price on the used market. My thinking is that if there's no new variant on the way then residuals could remain strong?
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