EV vs Super Diesels

[LordFlathead]

Well I've been looking at Leaf and Zoe deals for months now. My prime motive for buying one is to replace my current commuter car which is a Jaguar XJ350 2.7TDvi. The Jaaag gives me 35.4 average and an indicated 50.1 at a steady 75mph. But the road tax is £25 per month and so is the insurance...

I consider that with 40 miles a day commuting plus a margin, I would be looking at a 9000 mile battery/PCP contract.

Now when I look at the various deals I see like for like models (Tekna because of the leather and features etc) being quoted at between £197 and £265 with battery lease included. My commute costs me at best £6 a day or £120pm in diesel, plus £25 tax, so £145 thereabouts..

Today I was told that all stock has been exhausted for the Zoe and will not become available until September, and so I started to compare "Super Diesels".

• VW has the Bluemotion, which I've ruled out at £24k, it just does not compare with EV running costs due to its high purchase price.

• Fiat with the Ecodrivel 1.3 Turbojet which is fitted to the 500 and also the Panda.

The cheapest deal is a Fiat Panda Easy lunchbox, which although the most hideous looking car I have ever seen, returns 80mpg which is about 6 quid. The PCP works out at £137 for the Peasant Edition ('tis just a commuting hack) and no battery lease. I can purchase this for an amazing £8.7k on the road so harldy seems worth going down the finance route. Insurance for me is £149 FC so cheaper than the Leaf which was coming in around £315.

• Peugeot has the new 208 which on paper is simply staggering! But, due to it being their new baby just released this month, deals are tight, and the basic specced car comes in at around £14.5k. Thats Leaf money on the PCP.

If you do the maths, it costs around £2oo pm for a vanilla version with £2k down BUT it will return over 100mpg from the 75bhp lump and 90mpg from the 100bhp lump. However you look at it, this is mighty impressive given that both models are under the 100mg emmission rating so are zero road tax.

My heart says I really want to experience an EV to live with but I do wonder about range, and when I can buy a car which can easily drive to Scotland without filling up, why would I bother?

So to the empowered; give me a good reason (or ten) why I would not buy a super-diesel instead of an EV? There are some very hot deals around at the moment for Super Minis

[Phunk]

You're comparing a top spec Nissan Leaf against bog Fiat's and Peugeot's.

Find a car of equivalent specification then look at how the figures stack up.

Also bear in mind that many councils offer free parking and charging for EV's too which saves a fortune.

As for driving to Scotland, how often are you planning to do that?

[LordFlathead]

Ah yes but my primary reason to buy is for the commute. I can forego the luxury if I get mind-boggling economy, but once the price goes up to the Tekna bracket, I'm missing the point of a cheap super diesel.

If my company asked me to do major mileage, then I could use a pool car but I am trying to find a solution that will fix all economy criteria.. I can forego the luxury as even in Tekna trim it will not be a patch on the Jaguar interior that is simply stunning.

So let me ask the question again; what is the cheapest option:

An EV or a super-diesel? For the 200 miles a week a do commuting.

[stavers]

LordFlathead said:

returns 80mpg which is about 6 quid.

On the test cycle. Budget to be about 30% lower than that (which is the average miss for real world to the EU testing!).

To be honest if this is going to be your only personal car I would not touch the EV as you cannot do any spur-of-the-moment long journeys and if you needed to pop out somewhere then you would also need to make sure that you had plenty of charge.

I am also not sure how battery replacement works on a leased battery. The range will decrease over time and I am not sure how much range you would need to lose before the company replaced the battery.

[LordFlathead]

I have a classic Porsche 928GT which I will be able to use for sdp only and that has a 6k mileage policy so I will have another vehicle. I'm playing the devil's advocate as I was interested in hearing from anyone else that has had the same thoughts or gone down the same route and bought a super diesel instead of an ev.

I fully appreciate that manufacturers figures will not be real world figures but with my driving style the ev won't be doing an 80 mile range either

[gangzoom]

LordFlathead said:

I'm playing the devil's advocate as I was interested in hearing from anyone else that has had the same thoughts or gone down the same route and bought a super diesel instead of an ev.

If your just after cheap motoring a brand new EV or super diesel is a waster of money compared to just running your current car till it dies. Deprecation is by far the biggest true cost of any car.

Assuming 200 miles a week, working on average 4 weeks a month, thats 9600 miles a year. At 70mpg, with fuel at £1.2/L = £714 per year on rule. A car doing 35mpg will cost you £1428 a year on fuel. So by swapping to a brand new 70mpg car your save £714 a year on fuel....BUT your loss probably will in excess of 20% the list 'price' of your new super diesel as soon as you drive it out of the show room....So it makes no sense to swap your current car for a brand new one, regardless of what you buy, not when your doing so few miles.

These Super mini's will also not get close to their advertised figures, and if you truly don't care about what you drive, just by a £500 banger every 12 months, by far the cheapest way to get from A to B given you limited miles you do.

http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/real-world-mpg-eff...

BUT having spend nearly 2 years commuting 100 miles a day in a 2.2 50mpg diesel Civic, I can tell you it is not a nice experience to be stuck in traffic listening to that horrible diesel engine rattling away. These days I rather walk than endure been transported in any type of diesel.

EVs don't just offer significantly cheaper running costs, but are so much more refined to drive. My Nissan Leaf delivers a MORE refined drive than my wife's £40K+ Lexus hybrid!! But been a hybrid the Lexus can actually deliver some stupid mpg figures as well, given petrol is 5p/L cheaper than diesel, the an equivalent diesel will have to deliver 73mpg to match the 70mpg the Lexus can deliver.....Even so, since the Leaf has arrived on our driveway, the Lexus has been resigned to the role of a very nice looking (and expensive) static display item on the driveway, currently it hasn't been moved since last Friday evening.


So to answer your question about EVs vs Super Diesels, based on my experience of commuting in a 50mpg+ diesel, a petrol-electric hybrid, and a pure battery EV...There is no contest, EVs are the now/future, diesels needs to be scrapped and put away as display items in museums.

Pure EV beats everything hands down not only in running costs, but also delivering the most refined driving experience your likely to have ever experience, which for commuting duties is perfect. Diesels are economical, but noisy, dirty, and generally totally outdated technology that belongs on a farm...Though I admit the like of Audi have done a good job of making them work on the track.

Nissan offer 4 day test drives, rather than trying to work out the answer to your question by asking others, why not go and book a test drive and see what you think.....What's the worst that can happen

Edited by gangzoom on Wednesday 17th June 16:51

[gangzoom]

LordFlathead said:

* Peugeot has the new 208 which on paper is simply staggering! But, due to it being their new baby just released this month, deals are tight, and the basic specced car comes in at around £14.5k. Thats Leaf money on the PCP.

If you do the maths, it costs around £2oo pm for a vanilla version with £2k down BUT it will return over 100mpg from the 75bhp lump...

Where are you getting this 100mpg figure from?? Peugeot's own website don't claim this, their headline figure is 64mpg. I hope your not just basing your calculations on 'extra-urban' cycle, which is the car going at 40mph, down a 1% incline for 5 miles, or something equally stupid...So unless your commute is exactly like that, you wouldn't see anything near that kind of mpg.



Our Lexus hybrid recently achieved over 65mpg, on a 300 miles round trip from Leicester to London, that included about 50 miles and 4 hrs spent trudging round the north circular and the side-streets of Enfield...Worked out as 8p/mile in fuel, pretty impressive.



BUT compared to the Leaf it's an inefficient gas guzzler. The Leaf is averaging 4.5 miles/kWh in my ownership, and that I pay 12p per kWh, so fuel costs are only 2.6 p/mile, nearly 1/4 the costs of the Lexus at 65mpg....and that's before you take into account I've only used 40kWh of own electricity (thanks to free public charging) so my ACTUAL fuel costs for the Leaf is currently 0.4p/mile :P

[

Edited by gangzoom on Wednesday 17th June 18:19

Edited by gangzoom on Wednesday 17th June 18:24

[LordFlathead]

Well I've put a deposit down on a Panda 1.3 Multijet. I'm going to replace the Jag with it for longer distances where economy is still important. I got a cracking deal with £2k down and £117 a month and not quite peasant spec, it does have metallic paint and air con.

When I sell the Jag (privately) I'm going to go for a Leaf, or that's the intended plan. Mrs Flathead doesn't want to go out in the Jag as it's too big for her so this makes sense to us.

When I want some petrol head fun I can still take the 928. There; is everyone happy now?

Link to 208 fuel consumption

[stargazer30]

Late to the party here, but if it helps my Zoe costs me £220 a month all in (PCP+battery +leccy) 12.5Kmiles a year and 3 years PCP. Servicing and tax are free and the insurance cost me less for a year than a months petrol bill on my old car.

I worked out the Zoe does the equivalent of 160mpg and as has been said the driving experience, especially in traffic is very very good. When I get in the wife's petrol Qashqai it feels like a rattly pile of scrap in comparison.

[Fastdruid]

LordFlathead said:

An EV or a super-diesel? For the 200 miles a week a do commuting.

For 10k a year?

Petrol.

[LordFlathead]

Why on earth petrol? Please provide man maths.

Just to complicate matters I've just signed another 3 year service plan with Jaguar as I really don't want to sell the car

[scubadude]

I did 135mile round trip yesterday in light traffic, was in no rush. 06 Megane 1.9 diesel, (not recently serviced to my shame) 64mpg

[stargazer30]

LordFlathead said:

Why on earth petrol? Please provide man maths.

Just to complicate matters I've just signed another 3 year service plan with Jaguar as I really don't want to sell the car

The argument is that it make no sense to replace a perfectly good car (sooter or petrol) with a new/super efficient sooter solely using MPG as a justification if your annual mileage is in the low 10K mark. What you save on fuel you'd loose more in depreciation etc..

For most cases its true but for some (like when I bought my Zoe and Renault were giving them away) the man math's does actually stack up. In my case though I was running a 26mpg petrol type R and doing 12K a year.

[B3NNL]

A bit late now as you’ve made your decision, but did you ever get a test drive in an EV OP? I'd assume not because if you had, you'd probably have put a deposit down on one.
Putting all the range, cost depreciation etc to one side, its a blinking awesome drive.
From someone who’s weekender is a 4.5 Cerbera, I would say its a good alternative as the weekday workhorse. The acceleration is instantaneous and the ride is just so nice, dare I say even nicer than a Jag!