Induction Loop charging

[Beefmeister]

Electric cars will never be taken seriously by the buying public until Induction charging is the standard. Discuss.

I know i'm doing myself a disservice here given that I design charging posts (among other things), but I can't help feeling that the buying public won't fully get on board while they have to get out of their car, unravel a cable, pop open a door and plug it in, then repeat in the morning. Induction Loop tech is out there already, with around 90% efficiency so could very easily be migrated into cars. BMW are already working on it for the i3 apparently.

One issue is that the car has to be positioned directly over the top of the charging pad, but with most modern systems (especially EVs) having self-park systems it would be very easy to pull onto your drive and then press a button so the car guides itself onto the pad for charging. Then it's a simple case of get out and go in your house just like a normal car.

No cables, no time spent in freezing rain faffing around.

What does PH-EV think?

[Doshy]

Just out of curiosity, what's going to happen when my neighbours cat goes under the i3 while it's charging?

[Beefmeister]

Doshy said:

Just out of curiosity, what's going to happen when my neighbours cat goes under the i3 while it's charging?

Nothing. There are sensors to detect if anything goes in between the two pads.

I also had a thought that the car side pad could lower/retract so it is in contact. Even if it turns off when a cat goes over it, the pad will invariably be warm so the cat would probably stay there, meaning your car wouldn't be charged in the morning. So retracting pad would be better.

[anonymous-user]

Doshy said:

Just out of curiosity, what's going to happen when my neighbours cat goes under the i3 while it's charging?

That's called 'a plan with no drawbacks'

[dave_s13]

My tethered home charge cable is a doddle to use, infinitely preferable to using a petrol station.

I'm not seeing the problem induction charging is trying to solve, so, I'm out.

But.... If you could just pull on to the drive and easily dock the car without frying the local feline population then it would be very cool.

[Beefmeister]

dave_s13 said:

My tethered home charge cable is a doddle to use, infinitely preferable to using a petrol station.

I'm not seeing the problem induction charging is trying to solve, so, I'm out.

But.... If you could just pull on to the drive and easily dock the car without frying the local feline population then it would be very cool.

Indeed, but you're an interested early adopter. Most 'normal' people can't be bothered doing anything different...

[Doshy]

Just out of curiosity, what's going to happen when my neighbours cat goes under the i3 while it's charging?

[stewjohnst]

I don't think plugging in a cable is the huge barrier you think it is.

Most people are accustomed to pulling alongside a charging station now and faffing about with a big cumbersome cable to recharge their vehicles at least once a week anyway - They just happen to be called petrol stations.

I can't see that taking a cable out of the boot and plugging it in before you come into the house each day is that much more onerous to the point it prevents mass market infiltration.

I would have thought having to find a dedicated patch of your driveway/lawn you'd like to dig up and install an induction pad would be a much bigger barrier.

The thing stopping me from getting a hybrid earlier were more mundane things like the remaining lease on my company car and the generally gopping appearance (In my humble opinion) of the early leccy vehicles. I've ordered an Outlander PHEV now because it looks and behaves more or less exactly like it's petrol/diesel equivalent and was more cost effective.

Economics will drive adoption in the end.

[dave_s13]

Beefmeister said:

Indeed, but you're an interested early adopter. Most 'normal' people can't be bothered doing anything different...

Seriously, with a tethered cable, only one plug to worry about and no cable to get in/out of the boot, it is an absolute doddle. No harder than plugging your phone in and no need to stand in the cold, wet, windy environment of a traditional petrol station.

It's miles easier to refule an EV, and you don't waste money on st you don't need in the station shop.

[Beefmeister]

I know, I know. We're invested in it, we're enthusiasts, we're 'involved'.

As I said I believe in the industry more than 99.9% of people (I design all of POD Point's stuff), but putting yourself in the shoes of Mr. Astra Driver of Milton Keynes is what you need to consider. It's alien to them and they want simple. I agree that a tethered cable isn't much hassle, but IL charging is much easier.

[McWigglebum4th]

For inductive charging the two loops must be a close together as possible

So on the car must have a plate that moves upland down and auto parking

Otherwise known as Stuff to go wrong


However you have forgotten the other loop

The loop in the ground

I have a gravel drive

The gravel is 1/2" gravel so no chance of having that between the two coils. So i am going to have to have a nice grey rectangle

I don't want a grey rectangle

I want gravel

Now how about someone who has a nice lock block drive

They have a grey rectangle also

And how to you get the power to the grey rectangle

Ah well you have to dig up your drive which is an arse if it is lockblock

A real pain in the arse if it is something more exotic


So inductive charging sounds great until you look into it a bit more deeper

[anonymous-user]

Inductive charging also adds cost to the end product, precisely what EV's don't need any more of.........

[PhillipM]

dave_s13 said:

My tethered home charge cable is a doddle to use, infinitely preferable to using a petrol station.

I'm not seeing the problem induction charging is trying to solve, so, I'm out.

But.... If you could just pull on to the drive and easily dock the car without frying the local feline population then it would be very cool.

99% of the car driving population seems to drive around with underinflated or outright flat tyres, bulbs out, tyres with no tread, never open the bonnet, check brakes, etc.......give them even more to think about when charging the car and I think their heads would overheat from the effort.

[amstrange1]

The Highways Agency are in on the act:

http://www.lowcvp.org.uk/news,power-while-you-driv...

http://www.trl.co.uk/news-hub/trl-press-releases/2...

No mention of efficiency, which is odd as they want to bury the copper underneath (not in) the existing layers of road surface. Couple that with the huge variety of vehicle ride heights, I can't see it being a hugely efficient way of recharging on the fly - unless someone can cheat physics.

Sticking the technology in a bus and using it at a bus stop, or at a depot for a delivery vehicle makes sense - can't really see the weight/cost penalty being worthwhile on a private car, especially when the cost of digging up your driveway is taken into account.

Presume that workplaces would be less keen on their carparks being dug up too, so you'd still need to faff with a charge cable at some point. Even if your work car park had an inductive charger, it'd be a sod when some ignoramus stuck their ICE car in the space - at least with a plug-in lead you can drag a coiled cable over their pride and joy to still get a charge.

[pboyall]

Depends what warnings are on the space with the inductive charger and how the safety protocols work.

I can see it ending messily if someone parks a petrol car over the top of the plate and the metal in the engine has a charge induced in it ... at the least the ECU might not be too happy.

[Beefmeister]

The efficiency doesn't need to be great. People won't be looking for a full charge on a couple of miles of motorway, it's just to top up while driving along, so maybe adding 20% charge for 50 miles, that sorta thing.

Would be great if it can be combined with the solar roadways idea to create completely off-the-grid charging roads.

[amstrange1]

The efficiency does need to be decent if you're pushing vehicle electrification as a low-carbon option, otherwise petrol or diesel become more eco-friendly for motorway journeys.

Top-up charging whilst driving at motorway speeds requires a huge amount of power. A typical smaller EV needs 20-25kW of tractive power to maintain 70mph, so the dynamic inductive charging option needs to provide at least that just to charge-sustain. By the time you get several vehicles using the system (or an HGV or two!) the infrastructure requirements are huge - way beyond what a few PV panels in the road could provide!

I really don't think this makes any sense at the moment - at least not for dynamic wireless charging on the motorway network.

[bertie]

Why does the charging have to be from the ground?

Why can't it be on a wall so you draw up the nose of the car to it?

[SonicShadow]

McWigglebum4th said:

For inductive charging the two loops must be a close together as possible

So on the car must have a plate that moves upland down and auto parking

Otherwise known as Stuff to go wrong


However you have forgotten the other loop

The loop in the ground

I have a gravel drive

The gravel is 1/2" gravel so no chance of having that between the two coils. So i am going to have to have a nice grey rectangle

I don't want a grey rectangle

I want gravel

Now how about someone who has a nice lock block drive

They have a grey rectangle also

And how to you get the power to the grey rectangle

Ah well you have to dig up your drive which is an arse if it is lockblock

A real pain in the arse if it is something more exotic


So inductive charging sounds great until you look into it a bit more deeper

Is 'it won't look pretty on my driveway' such a big problem for most people?

[Dave Hedgehog]

SonicShadow said:

Is 'it won't look pretty on my driveway' such a big problem for most people?

it certainly is for the majority of drivers who do not have driveways / garages

still the kids coming out of the pub at night could have fun pushing all the cars a foot forward so that none of them charge lol