Help me talk myself into a Model S
Discussion
Hello,
Long time lurker, first time poster :-)
I'm trying to man-maths myself into leasing a Model S for three or four years, on the pretence that it won't be _too_ much more expensive than trying to run two of the cars I'm running at the moment (V8 Jag S-Type for me and a Jazz for her, we would share the Tesla as she walks to work and I'm often on the train).
I was hoping that some owners / prospective owners would be able to help me answer a few queries - obviously I'll give tesla/accountant themselves a ring with all the below anyway, but it's good to get information from more than one viewpoint and get things straight in my head before I make the calls.
1) I'm a Ltd Company contractor - I need a car for work but do relatively few miles: I'm assuming the way it goes is that the company leases the car at business rates, writes it off as an expense, then the BIK value for the Tesla would get added to my personal take-home income for tax purposes? So end up something like 30% cheaper than if I were paying the (business) rate personally? Can I then expense actuals for charging?
2) Is anyone aware of any competitive lease deals? I'm currently looking at about £720 for 3yrs or £680 for four, with relatively high deposits and 10kpa? Tesla seem to be POA on their own contract hire deals, but I will check with them.
3) Has anyone had a look at the textile interior? Leather is relatively expensive on the lease, and I personally prefer the feel of cloth anyway, but I will be putting four and six year-old boys in the back, so if the cloth is tough to clean...
4) I assume the charger-fitting process is that I order the car then ring chargemaster but does anyone know if I have to have someone come and look at the electrics in my house first to ensure it can support the type 2 charger or is any domestic supply in good condition right for the job?
Thanks in advance for any advice, I appreciate some of these may be FAQs but I'm finding it hard to make complete sense of a lot of the literature from Tesla themselves.
Si
Long time lurker, first time poster :-)
I'm trying to man-maths myself into leasing a Model S for three or four years, on the pretence that it won't be _too_ much more expensive than trying to run two of the cars I'm running at the moment (V8 Jag S-Type for me and a Jazz for her, we would share the Tesla as she walks to work and I'm often on the train).
I was hoping that some owners / prospective owners would be able to help me answer a few queries - obviously I'll give tesla/accountant themselves a ring with all the below anyway, but it's good to get information from more than one viewpoint and get things straight in my head before I make the calls.
1) I'm a Ltd Company contractor - I need a car for work but do relatively few miles: I'm assuming the way it goes is that the company leases the car at business rates, writes it off as an expense, then the BIK value for the Tesla would get added to my personal take-home income for tax purposes? So end up something like 30% cheaper than if I were paying the (business) rate personally? Can I then expense actuals for charging?
2) Is anyone aware of any competitive lease deals? I'm currently looking at about £720 for 3yrs or £680 for four, with relatively high deposits and 10kpa? Tesla seem to be POA on their own contract hire deals, but I will check with them.
3) Has anyone had a look at the textile interior? Leather is relatively expensive on the lease, and I personally prefer the feel of cloth anyway, but I will be putting four and six year-old boys in the back, so if the cloth is tough to clean...
4) I assume the charger-fitting process is that I order the car then ring chargemaster but does anyone know if I have to have someone come and look at the electrics in my house first to ensure it can support the type 2 charger or is any domestic supply in good condition right for the job?
Thanks in advance for any advice, I appreciate some of these may be FAQs but I'm finding it hard to make complete sense of a lot of the literature from Tesla themselves.
Si
simonwhite said:
4) I assume the charger-fitting process is that I order the car then ring chargemaster but does anyone know if I have to have someone come and look at the electrics in my house first to ensure it can support the type 2 charger or is any domestic supply in good condition right for the job?
The fitter should wire direct to your main fuse board & supply and usually installs an additional circuit breaker - the basic 16 amp type 2 charger is no problem - 32 amp is effectively another cooker circuit so should be within your normal household supply capabilityInterested to see what comments appear as Im also interested in going a similar way.
I dont think you can expense for charging, what you do is apply HMRC rates, the lower business rates of 13p per mile? Rather than the 45p /25p for personal car users.
BIK kicks in April 2015 for new tax year and quickly climbs for EVs so at the end of the lease you are going to be paying a low BIK rate but on a vehicle of relatively high P11d in the compary car land. I dont know if there are work arounds for that as a Ltd Co director as oppose to a typical company car.
Leasing etc never seemed to make sense as oppose to running a personal car in the past. Im not sure the Tesla really changes that.
I dont think you can expense for charging, what you do is apply HMRC rates, the lower business rates of 13p per mile? Rather than the 45p /25p for personal car users.
BIK kicks in April 2015 for new tax year and quickly climbs for EVs so at the end of the lease you are going to be paying a low BIK rate but on a vehicle of relatively high P11d in the compary car land. I dont know if there are work arounds for that as a Ltd Co director as oppose to a typical company car.
Leasing etc never seemed to make sense as oppose to running a personal car in the past. Im not sure the Tesla really changes that.
simonwhite said:
Hello,
1) I'm a Ltd Company contractor - I need a car for work but do relatively few miles: I'm assuming the way it goes is that the company leases the car at business rates, writes it off as an expense, then the BIK value for the Tesla would get added to my personal take-home income for tax purposes? So end up something like 30% cheaper than if I were paying the (business) rate personally? Can I then expense actuals for charging?
2) Is anyone aware of any competitive lease deals? I'm currently looking at about £720 for 3yrs or £680 for four, with relatively high deposits and 10kpa? Tesla seem to be POA on their own contract hire deals, but I will check with them.
3) Has anyone had a look at the textile interior? Leather is relatively expensive on the lease, and I personally prefer the feel of cloth anyway, but I will be putting four and six year-old boys in the back, so if the cloth is tough to clean...
4) I assume the charger-fitting process is that I order the car then ring chargemaster but does anyone know if I have to have someone come and look at the electrics in my house first to ensure it can support the type 2 charger or is any domestic supply in good condition right for the job?
Si
I ordered Tesla Model S P85D as a company car in December so whilst I do not have a car yet (delivery in June), I have been through all of these issues as you are.1) I'm a Ltd Company contractor - I need a car for work but do relatively few miles: I'm assuming the way it goes is that the company leases the car at business rates, writes it off as an expense, then the BIK value for the Tesla would get added to my personal take-home income for tax purposes? So end up something like 30% cheaper than if I were paying the (business) rate personally? Can I then expense actuals for charging?
2) Is anyone aware of any competitive lease deals? I'm currently looking at about £720 for 3yrs or £680 for four, with relatively high deposits and 10kpa? Tesla seem to be POA on their own contract hire deals, but I will check with them.
3) Has anyone had a look at the textile interior? Leather is relatively expensive on the lease, and I personally prefer the feel of cloth anyway, but I will be putting four and six year-old boys in the back, so if the cloth is tough to clean...
4) I assume the charger-fitting process is that I order the car then ring chargemaster but does anyone know if I have to have someone come and look at the electrics in my house first to ensure it can support the type 2 charger or is any domestic supply in good condition right for the job?
Si
1. If the company can afford it, it is better to buy it outright. All EVs attract First Year Allowance until March 2018. This means that the entire amount can be set against the company's profit whilst not attracting corporation tax. As far as your BIK is concerned at the moment it is 0% but will be increasing to 5% in 2015/16 and then 7% in 2016/17. For my car it will be about £1700 personal tax in 2015/16, a fraction of what an ICE would be that does 0 - 60 in 3.2 secs!
2. No idea about leasing. See above.
3. I have seen the textile car seats in the Model S and they are of good quality. Many people are very happy with them. That said I have gone for the "Next Generation" seats in my P85D, which give more lateral support. But as I say, a lot of owners are very happy with the standard textile seats.
4. Many UK owners (including me) have not followed the Tesla preferred route of using Chargemaster for their home charger installation. The reason is that they only supply a 30a charger and they charge you an extra £130 for the privilege (the bulk of the cost is met by OLEV currently). A lot of us have used a company called Rolec who supply a 32a charger (charges slightly faster than 30a) at no extra cost. They use contractors to install the units but that was a no brainer. You need to check this site out for the grant https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/office... and Rolec is found at http://www.rolecserv.com/ev-charging. Look for the free link.
If you do decide to go down the Model S route you have many more decisions to make! The Tesla Motors forums are great for reading about the options but here is a starter for 10:-
1. If you can afford it go for the 85Kw battery - more range and the Supercharger network is included.
2. You have to get the Tech pack. This has the Autopilot hardware that the car, with software updates, will use to drive itself. They have just released adaptive cruise control. The next stage is that it will follow the lines in the road and steer itself. See the launch video for the P85D for what that's like.
2. Lots of people swear by the 19" wheels - I have gone for the 21" grey turbines as they look great.
3. Dual chargers mean that you can charge twice as fast at certain public charging stations. Make no difference charging at home or at the Tesla Supercharger network. I have gone for this option as I don't like waiting but I don't think it is essential.
4. It sounds like you should get the 7 seat option (2 child seats in the back).
5. Do you go for the performance version? If it is affordable, what other car can you buy anywhere that has that performance for the money?
6. If new is scary, Tesla have a list of "inventory cars" or demonstrators to you and me that are available immediately and are cheaper. However, they must include the Autopilot hardware as described in 2. above.
Happy choosing!
I am company director and have considered a Tesla - though have decided too much money right now - the tax advantages make a very expensive car cheaper but the costs will rise quite a bit over 3-4 years (ie tax benefit falling)
Don't know about leasing - you do get half the Vat back on contract hire but not on any other method, so may be useful saving there
For any costs of charging I think you could get the company to pay with no tax liability at all - I think HMRC say that electricity is not fuel so no fuel scale charge
The only place the 45p/25p per mile arises is use of your own car - doesn't apply if getting a car through the company
I have done lots of maths (proper accountant maths not man maths
) and unless co2 is under 100g there's no clear benefit to putting a car through the business (assuming you aren't doing massive private miles). If you are getting a Tesla then I am struggling to see why you would ever consider buying privately and then charge the business for mileage.
Hope that is of some use. I rejected a tesla as too expensive for me right now, seats 6 and 7 too small for my children, not able to tow with it, and will be doing a regular 316 mile round trip in a day that would be long enough without having to find a charger (which is theoretically possible). I also got a bit miffed that the delivery times were 2 months longer than the salesman told me and prices of all options had changed the day before my drive (the salesm had no knowledge of them changin and I only found out later) and they changed again three days later
Don't know about leasing - you do get half the Vat back on contract hire but not on any other method, so may be useful saving there
For any costs of charging I think you could get the company to pay with no tax liability at all - I think HMRC say that electricity is not fuel so no fuel scale charge
The only place the 45p/25p per mile arises is use of your own car - doesn't apply if getting a car through the company
I have done lots of maths (proper accountant maths not man maths
) and unless co2 is under 100g there's no clear benefit to putting a car through the business (assuming you aren't doing massive private miles). If you are getting a Tesla then I am struggling to see why you would ever consider buying privately and then charge the business for mileage. Hope that is of some use. I rejected a tesla as too expensive for me right now, seats 6 and 7 too small for my children, not able to tow with it, and will be doing a regular 316 mile round trip in a day that would be long enough without having to find a charger (which is theoretically possible). I also got a bit miffed that the delivery times were 2 months longer than the salesman told me and prices of all options had changed the day before my drive (the salesm had no knowledge of them changin and I only found out later) and they changed again three days later
Tesla had a car at Geneva last year with the cloth interior. I have to say I prefer it to the leather, partly because I'm not convinced that the leather looks as good as some leathers, but also I prefer cloth on a hot day.
As said, I think it's worth upgrading to the 85. I haven't seen a 60 here in Switzerland - most are 85s or the performance version. I suspect a lot will be the AWD car when it's here & some of the earlier cars will be coming onto the market.
I put off driving a car for almost a year thinking once I drove one I'd find it hard to resist. However I was one of the few people unconvinced after a test drive. It felt big and heavy, which of course it is. I think if I was in the market for a car that size I'd rate it higher. I haven't ruled one out but it is no longer a 'must-have'.
As said, I think it's worth upgrading to the 85. I haven't seen a 60 here in Switzerland - most are 85s or the performance version. I suspect a lot will be the AWD car when it's here & some of the earlier cars will be coming onto the market.
I put off driving a car for almost a year thinking once I drove one I'd find it hard to resist. However I was one of the few people unconvinced after a test drive. It felt big and heavy, which of course it is. I think if I was in the market for a car that size I'd rate it higher. I haven't ruled one out but it is no longer a 'must-have'.
I went down this route last year. Decided although I could afford the repayments, but £14k in finance cost is not something I want to endure.
Take a look at an i3 REX. If you aren't doing over 120 miles in a single stint regularly it's a £33k alternative. That's before grants, but you'll end up sticking on £5k in options. Even better if you only do 60 mile stints as you wont need to use the REX much, but based on my experience yesterday - you need one as the public chargers are chocolate tea pots at the moment.
Don't bother with the Pro nav, but tick everything else and get a 10" ipad with 3g and have £500 left in change. The pro nav feels 10 years old, updated with RTTI. Nowhere near as good as Waze on a phone. And no touch screen in liue of an iDrive is madness. It doesn't even have the rapid CCS chargers in the POI, not they they work at the moment.
You can read my first day review of it here...
https://speakev.com/threads/my-first-electric-day-...
I'm planning on getting a Tesla in a couple of years but for cash. ;-) Had to have an electric car though as a) they are awesome to drive, b) Mahoosive tax saving means although the i3 list was £38k. from what I could have had in dividends (taxed at 40%) instead, it's really only cost me £19k. After £5,000 grant, £6,600 knocked of my CT bill for the year in the Enhanced first year writing down allowance and those personal tax savings.
I might have gone for the Telsa if I was only borrowing say £20k. But with option what I specced came to £67k and I was like... er,. That's 2 x i3s. A BEV and a REX. 8 seats vs 7. Range 250 miles (if you leave them spaced out correctly). LOL.
Take a look at an i3 REX. If you aren't doing over 120 miles in a single stint regularly it's a £33k alternative. That's before grants, but you'll end up sticking on £5k in options. Even better if you only do 60 mile stints as you wont need to use the REX much, but based on my experience yesterday - you need one as the public chargers are chocolate tea pots at the moment.
Don't bother with the Pro nav, but tick everything else and get a 10" ipad with 3g and have £500 left in change. The pro nav feels 10 years old, updated with RTTI. Nowhere near as good as Waze on a phone. And no touch screen in liue of an iDrive is madness. It doesn't even have the rapid CCS chargers in the POI, not they they work at the moment.
You can read my first day review of it here...
https://speakev.com/threads/my-first-electric-day-...
I'm planning on getting a Tesla in a couple of years but for cash. ;-) Had to have an electric car though as a) they are awesome to drive, b) Mahoosive tax saving means although the i3 list was £38k. from what I could have had in dividends (taxed at 40%) instead, it's really only cost me £19k. After £5,000 grant, £6,600 knocked of my CT bill for the year in the Enhanced first year writing down allowance and those personal tax savings.
I might have gone for the Telsa if I was only borrowing say £20k. But with option what I specced came to £67k and I was like... er,. That's 2 x i3s. A BEV and a REX. 8 seats vs 7. Range 250 miles (if you leave them spaced out correctly). LOL.
Edited by TransverseTight on Thursday 29th January 13:21
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