Autonomous Driving Cars?

[anonymous-user]

Ok, so not specifically an EV topic, (although a lot easier to apply to an EV) where do people sit on autonomous vehicles?

Here's a interesting (skip the dull 3min intro!) talk from Google's auto driving car project leader. it's quite eye opening in places i think:

Google Driverless Car Talk


Pretty amazing technology, in it's infancy, but as "mass" transport, is this the way forward??

[mids]

That was a great answer he gave about the liability issue.

Talking 4 years'ish before he expects the cars to be available, which is slightly ahead of other forecasts I've seen from other manufacturers. What isn't clear is how they plan to deploy their technology into cars. Maybe that's not even known at this point but if it's good enough I doubt it'll be a big problem for them.

[anonymous-user]

Also interesting just how cautiously the car currently drives. His commute looked to be 18min for a person and 45m autonomously! That's a big difference in average speed!

Also, one thing i suspect is that the typical american road (wide, straight, basic junctions, generally with space one either side and with big road marking etc) is a lot different from a lot of the uk (narrow, wet, overhung by vegetation etc, poorly marked and lit, off camber and pot holed).

Perhaps we should expect autonomous cars to be a bit like cruise control in the UK. Useful, but not necessarily highly utilised?

[AnotherClarkey]

Max_Torque said:

Also interesting just how cautiously the car currently drives. His commute looked to be 18min for a person and 45m autonomously! That's a big difference in average speed!

I think it was more a case that in a more or less one hour commute, 15 minutes was spent driving manually and 45 was done autonomously?

Funnily enough a bunch of us were chatting about this at work and a consensus began to emerge. If the car could drive itself but required someone to stay alert and constantly monitor it then nobody was interested. If it could truly drive itself -i.e. turn up at the pub and drive you home or save on airport parking by trundling home for a couple of weeks before coming to pick you up then it was seen as an excellent idea. There seems to be little useful middle ground.

A truly self driving car could potentially turn my household back to being single vehicle - it takes me to work then returns so that my wife can use it during the day etc. etc.

[Munter]

AnotherClarkey said:

A truly self driving car could potentially turn my household back to being single vehicle - it takes me to work then returns so that my wife can use it during the day etc. etc.

Another view is that most people wouldn't actually own a car for "day to day" activities. You'd subscribe to a service that would allow you to use their cars. One tap on the smart phone and the nearest car meeting your requirements comes to find you. Then takes you to where you want to go. Commuting 10 miles it'll try to send you a single person EV. Taking the family to the coast, an MPV.

You'd own a car like people currently own horses. For fun. Or because you really really don't like sharing or live hours from civilization.

I can't wait to use an autonomous car for business/commuting purposes myself.

[mids]

AnotherClarkey said:

Funnily enough a bunch of us were chatting about this at work and a consensus began to emerge.

It's been a topic in our office too for the last few weeks, mainly just trying to think of all of the different ways it might impact on how we do things. It's pretty exciting when it gets to the point of being able to benefit from it without needing driver responsibility but I suspect we're a long way from that.

Some of the newer BMW's offer a 'traffic jam assist' package where the car will drive itself (brake, accelerate AND steer) at speeds of up to 25mph. This is what the handbook has to say about 'responsibility'

Edited by mids on Sunday 22 December 17:32

[98elise]

AnotherClarkey said:

Max_Torque said:

Also interesting just how cautiously the car currently drives. His commute looked to be 18min for a person and 45m autonomously! That's a big difference in average speed!

I think it was more a case that in a more or less one hour commute, 15 minutes was spent driving manually and 45 was done autonomously?

Funnily enough a bunch of us were chatting about this at work and a consensus began to emerge. If the car could drive itself but required someone to stay alert and constantly monitor it then nobody was interested. If it could truly drive itself -i.e. turn up at the pub and drive you home or save on airport parking by trundling home for a couple of weeks before coming to pick you up then it was seen as an excellent idea. There seems to be little useful middle ground.

A truly self driving car could potentially turn my household back to being single vehicle - it takes me to work then returns so that my wife can use it during the day etc. etc.

I would agree, but go one step further. When cars can drive themselves, then car ownership becomes less important. A self driving version pool of cars (in effect taxis) would be a better oprion for AtoB stuff. That way cars wouldn't need to travel back home, or take up a parking space. Also you call call for a car that suits your current journey, 1 seater to pick up from the station, 4 seater for a family trip, 7 seater for the school run, pick up truck for B&Q etc.

[AnotherClarkey]

98elise said:

I would agree, but go one step further. When cars can drive themselves, then car ownership becomes less important. A self driving version pool of cars (in effect taxis) would be a better oprion for AtoB stuff. That way cars wouldn't need to travel back home, or take up a parking space. Also you call call for a car that suits your current journey, 1 seater to pick up from the station, 4 seater for a family trip, 7 seater for the school run, pick up truck for B&Q etc.

I think that is one of the logical conclusions - I wonder how social status will be displayed if car ownership becomes a thing of the past? After all, cars are only a blip in history at the moment. What type of company will supply the 'car service'? Will it be the car manufacturers themselves or will it be more service-oriented industries like airlines? The certainly know how to squeeze cash out of of people for more or less premium services....

[AER]

Another point to consider is if a self driving car remains 100% vigilant, will that negate the need for passive safety features like airbags and safety cell construction? Do self driving cars become simpler and lighter as a result. ..?

[LordFlathead]

AER said:

Another point to consider is if a self driving car remains 100% vigilant, will that negate the need for passive safety features like airbags and safety cell construction? Do self driving cars become simpler and lighter as a result. ..?

I would say no, as airbags and a safety cell are a second line of defence. If the autonomic system fails you are still going to rely on basic safety devices. Think of it as PPE.

[Mr Taxpayer]

AER said:

Another point to consider is if a self driving car remains 100% vigilant, will that negate the need for passive safety features like airbags and safety cell construction? Do self driving cars become simpler and lighter as a result. ..?

You would need the secondary/passive safety systems to remain for as long as human-driven vehicles remain in the system. What you would see is a self-driving cars not being involved in at-fault accidents but still subject to collisions with vehicles driven by septagenarians+ that don't trust technology coz they once had a television that only lasted 20 years before the tube failed.

As a previous poster pointed out, the human-drive car will be the remit of collectors and people on 'activity breaks'. In 10 years time you'll have stag weekends to a disused airfield to field a try driving a Dacia Sandero.

The technology behind self-driving cars is mature and in use in rail, aerospace, mining and military use. The only thing keeping it off the roads is discussion about liability and public confidence.

[Sagacitas]

AnotherClarkey said:

I think that is one of the logical conclusions - I wonder how social status will be displayed if car ownership becomes a thing of the past? After all, cars are only a blip in history at the moment. What type of company will supply the 'car service'? Will it be the car manufacturers themselves or will it be more service-oriented industries like airlines? The certainly know how to squeeze cash out of of people for more or less premium services....

I don't think car ownership in general will become a thing of the past. For most people, the 'a car is a means of getting from A to B' types, a fully automated car could eliminate the need for owning a car. For people who like to drive I suspect they would own a car for driving for fun, and still, probably, make use of the fully autonomous cars for boring every day stuff.

As for social status I would think there would still be a difference in the types of cars people could call on. So some would make do with the standard autonomous car (i.e. just send me whatever is in the area) while others will demand, and pay for, more luxury/options/whatever.

[Mr Taxpayer]

Sagacitas said:

As for social status I would think there would still be a difference in the types of cars people could call on. So some would make do with the standard autonomous car (i.e. just send me whatever is in the area) while others will demand, and pay for, more luxury/options/whatever.

I think the luxury option will stay the same; a large nice car with a man paid to drive it. Cars that aren't self-driving of any kind will be luxury vehicles.

IMHO there will be rationalisation of the car market by size of vehicle. As has been pointed out, it'll look a bit like the airline/bus/rail industry. Who stands at the station and says "I'll wait for the next train, it's a Siemens; I don't like Alstom rolling stock" or "Volvo bus? It's Alexander-Dennis for me!". That said I do know cabin crew who say "If it's not Boeing; I'm not going"
There will be fewer car models and they'll be orientated by size. They'll be comfortable and practical because they won't be on stupidly large wheels and pointless harsh suspension because their Nurburgring lap-time will be irrelevant. 'Driving pleasure' won't feature in the sales brochure. They will be items of utility, like washing machines.