Hybrid's - to plug or not to plug
Discussion
paralla said:
The 13.6kWh battery used extensively in Toyota PHEV's weighs 128.8kg. In conjunction with the electric motor, it facilitates revovering, storing and deploying the energy that would otherwise be lost to heat via friction when braking. When the hybrid battery is "flat" it's not just 128.8kg of dead weight being carried about, it's still being used to improve the efficency of the petrol engine even though it might be indicating 0% state of charge.
Out of interest then what is the weight of the latest Toyota hybrid battery? I had assumed it was the 128kg version? Do they use the same battery in their hybrid and PHEV’s? Phil. said:
Out of interest then what is the weight of the latest Toyota hybrid battery? I had assumed it was the 128kg version? Do they use the same battery in their hybrid and PHEV’s?
The Hybrid is now a lithium battery (NiCad for years) and is a out 1kWh. So maybe 2 miles range in slow urban conditions. Evanivitch said:
Phil. said:
Out of interest then what is the weight of the latest Toyota hybrid battery? I had assumed it was the 128kg version? Do they use the same battery in their hybrid and PHEV’s?
The Hybrid is now a lithium battery (NiCad for years) and is an out 1kWh. So maybe 2 miles range in slow urban conditions. Phil. said:
Evanivitch said:
Phil. said:
Out of interest then what is the weight of the latest Toyota hybrid battery? I had assumed it was the 128kg version? Do they use the same battery in their hybrid and PHEV’s?
The Hybrid is now a lithium battery (NiCad for years) and is an out 1kWh. So maybe 2 miles range in slow urban conditions. I don't know the exact weight of the 0.91kWh battery but their 13.8kWh battery weighs 128Kg. If we assume the 0.91kWh battery has the same energy density as the 13.8kWh battery (because it uses the same chemistry) that means the normal hybrid 0.91kWh battery would weigh 8Kg.
I found this Toyota Corolla hybrid spec and I’m impressed with the combined mpg which must be related to the low kerb weight.
https://media.toyota.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/site...
https://media.toyota.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/site...
Phil. said:
otolith said:
Minimal weight and zero ability to utilise renewably generated electricity.
Zero, really? So the battery has no impact on the improved mpg? I don’t think so. If you can't plug in, you aren't able to run on "green" electric.
The battery will help to reduce mpg, but all the energy that the car uses comes from petrol. Just that some of it is harvested (regen or whatever) and recycled for assisting the ICE.
A plug-in can do all that, plus actually do some useful work by running some (maybe most) of the time on electricity from renewable sources.
We have an EV and a PHEV.
Day to day use, both run fully EV.
Occasional medium length journeys the EV is favoured.
Long journeys and "staycations" it's the PHEV.
The PHEV isn't as good an EV as the EV (less efficient, not as smooth, slower) but it's perfectly usable and can run fully electric with decent heating and at motorway speeds. You also get the same nice features like pre heating or cooling.
I would recommend a proper charging point even for a PHEV though as you want it to be as convenient as possible to plug in. They need plugging in way more often.
Our PHEV is plugged in probably 10-12 times a week.
The EV is once a week (and could probably be once a fortnight!).
Day to day use, both run fully EV.
Occasional medium length journeys the EV is favoured.
Long journeys and "staycations" it's the PHEV.
The PHEV isn't as good an EV as the EV (less efficient, not as smooth, slower) but it's perfectly usable and can run fully electric with decent heating and at motorway speeds. You also get the same nice features like pre heating or cooling.
I would recommend a proper charging point even for a PHEV though as you want it to be as convenient as possible to plug in. They need plugging in way more often.
Our PHEV is plugged in probably 10-12 times a week.
The EV is once a week (and could probably be once a fortnight!).
blank said:
We have an EV and a PHEV.
Day to day use, both run fully EV.
Occasional medium length journeys the EV is favoured.
Long journeys and "staycations" it's the PHEV.
The PHEV isn't as good an EV as the EV (less efficient, not as smooth, slower) but it's perfectly usable and can run fully electric with decent heating and at motorway speeds. You also get the same nice features like pre heating or cooling.
Presumably an outside 3 pin socket with your cable left plugged in all the time would do for a plug in hybrid?
I would recommend a proper charging point even for a PHEV though as you want it to be as convenient as possible to plug in. They need plugging in way more often.
Our PHEV is plugged in probably 10-12 times a week.
The EV is once a week (and could probably be once a fortnight!).
Day to day use, both run fully EV.
Occasional medium length journeys the EV is favoured.
Long journeys and "staycations" it's the PHEV.
The PHEV isn't as good an EV as the EV (less efficient, not as smooth, slower) but it's perfectly usable and can run fully electric with decent heating and at motorway speeds. You also get the same nice features like pre heating or cooling.
Presumably an outside 3 pin socket with your cable left plugged in all the time would do for a plug in hybrid?
I would recommend a proper charging point even for a PHEV though as you want it to be as convenient as possible to plug in. They need plugging in way more often.
Our PHEV is plugged in probably 10-12 times a week.
The EV is once a week (and could probably be once a fortnight!).
Jimjimhim said:
Presumably an outside 3 pin socket with your cable left plugged in all the time would do for a plug in hybrid?
Yeah, but if you're going to do that for a PHEV you may as well do it with an EV.If you're charging daily and doing low mileage then (all else being equal) an EV will use less energy than a PHEV.
paralla said:
My guess is that a granny charger through the letterbox is more hassle than she will be willing to deal with, she will just put petrol in it because it's easier. Also to get the most benefit from a PHEV you want to charge it at cheap overnight electricity rates rather than during the saytime.
Like I said earlier, unless plugging it in is super convenient, it won't get plugged in. If it doesn't get plugged in save your money and get a non-plug in hybrid.
I raised an eyebrow at the letterbox thing too!Like I said earlier, unless plugging it in is super convenient, it won't get plugged in. If it doesn't get plugged in save your money and get a non-plug in hybrid.
"It's perfectly simple darling, you just plug into the socket in the kitchen, run the cable down the hall, pop it through the letterbox, get the granny charger in the boot and hook it up"
Or just get a 13a outdoor socket fitted
Phil. said:
otolith said:
Minimal weight and zero ability to utilise renewably generated electricity.
Zero, really? So the battery has no impact on the improved mpg? I don’t think so. blank said:
Jimjimhim said:
Presumably an outside 3 pin socket with your cable left plugged in all the time would do for a plug in hybrid?
Yeah, but if you're going to do that for a PHEV you may as well do it with an EV.If you're charging daily and doing low mileage then (all else being equal) an EV will use less energy than a PHEV.
That's interesting about the energy usage, why is that? Is it much difference?
Jimjimhim said:
blank said:
Jimjimhim said:
Presumably an outside 3 pin socket with your cable left plugged in all the time would do for a plug in hybrid?
Yeah, but if you're going to do that for a PHEV you may as well do it with an EV.If you're charging daily and doing low mileage then (all else being equal) an EV will use less energy than a PHEV.
That's interesting about the energy usage, why is that? Is it much difference?
Also the designers of EV's probably care more about low drag for the sake of optimal range.
We have both an EV (Ioniq 5) and a PHEV (Volvo XC60 T8). It goes without saying the EV is a better EV than the PHEV and ideally I’d have liked both to be EVs, but we need the flexibility as my wife is a Dr who whilst doing occasional on call shifts across the region may have to do 300 miles plus in the middle of the winter with confidence without an opportunity to charge.
I use the Volvo for commuting -76 miles round trip, mixed A road, motorway and urban. It’s currently averaging 98 mpg (not bad for a 450bhp heavy SUV). Depending on the traffic I.e. the jams etc. I have seen over 50 miles in EV range in the summer. Ultimately it’s all about use case, if my commute was 100 miles then my average mpg would be much lower, if it was shorter it would be higher. PHEVs are fantastic if you can charge them overnight at home and your usage suits the limitations.
I use the Volvo for commuting -76 miles round trip, mixed A road, motorway and urban. It’s currently averaging 98 mpg (not bad for a 450bhp heavy SUV). Depending on the traffic I.e. the jams etc. I have seen over 50 miles in EV range in the summer. Ultimately it’s all about use case, if my commute was 100 miles then my average mpg would be much lower, if it was shorter it would be higher. PHEVs are fantastic if you can charge them overnight at home and your usage suits the limitations.
TheDeuce said:
paralla said:
My guess is that a granny charger through the letterbox is more hassle than she will be willing to deal with, she will just put petrol in it because it's easier. Also to get the most benefit from a PHEV you want to charge it at cheap overnight electricity rates rather than during the saytime.
Like I said earlier, unless plugging it in is super convenient, it won't get plugged in. If it doesn't get plugged in save your money and get a non-plug in hybrid.
I raised an eyebrow at the letterbox thing too!Like I said earlier, unless plugging it in is super convenient, it won't get plugged in. If it doesn't get plugged in save your money and get a non-plug in hybrid.
"It's perfectly simple darling, you just plug into the socket in the kitchen, run the cable down the hall, pop it through the letterbox, get the granny charger in the boot and hook it up"
Or just get a 13a outdoor socket fitted
Ankh87 said:
TheDeuce said:
paralla said:
My guess is that a granny charger through the letterbox is more hassle than she will be willing to deal with, she will just put petrol in it because it's easier. Also to get the most benefit from a PHEV you want to charge it at cheap overnight electricity rates rather than during the saytime.
Like I said earlier, unless plugging it in is super convenient, it won't get plugged in. If it doesn't get plugged in save your money and get a non-plug in hybrid.
I raised an eyebrow at the letterbox thing too!Like I said earlier, unless plugging it in is super convenient, it won't get plugged in. If it doesn't get plugged in save your money and get a non-plug in hybrid.
"It's perfectly simple darling, you just plug into the socket in the kitchen, run the cable down the hall, pop it through the letterbox, get the granny charger in the boot and hook it up"
Or just get a 13a outdoor socket fitted
Jimjimhim said:
Ankh87 said:
TheDeuce said:
paralla said:
My guess is that a granny charger through the letterbox is more hassle than she will be willing to deal with, she will just put petrol in it because it's easier. Also to get the most benefit from a PHEV you want to charge it at cheap overnight electricity rates rather than during the saytime.
Like I said earlier, unless plugging it in is super convenient, it won't get plugged in. If it doesn't get plugged in save your money and get a non-plug in hybrid.
I raised an eyebrow at the letterbox thing too!Like I said earlier, unless plugging it in is super convenient, it won't get plugged in. If it doesn't get plugged in save your money and get a non-plug in hybrid.
"It's perfectly simple darling, you just plug into the socket in the kitchen, run the cable down the hall, pop it through the letterbox, get the granny charger in the boot and hook it up"
Or just get a 13a outdoor socket fitted
I suspect doing so might just solve the plugging in debate
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