Discussion
SJfW said:
Jazzy Jag said:
I currently have an MG ZS on the drive at the moment courtesy of Avis.
What a complete disappointing POS.
It's like you have ordered a real car from Wish or Ali Express.
More flat spots that a 50p piece and unimpressive MPG.
Totally frustrating infotainment that doesn't do what it could should, but just looks like it will.
Give me a Kia or Hyundai any day of the week.
Big numbers of these MGs appearing around our estate.What a complete disappointing POS.
It's like you have ordered a real car from Wish or Ali Express.
More flat spots that a 50p piece and unimpressive MPG.
Totally frustrating infotainment that doesn't do what it could should, but just looks like it will.
Give me a Kia or Hyundai any day of the week.
If you drew a Venn diagram of new MG, gobby a
hole in the neighbourhood Facebook group and treats the speedtables as launch ramps usually with their nose glued to their phone, you would end up with something that looks like someone has repeatedly placed a moist glass on a coaster.Hateful cars for hateful specimens.
They are very obviously going to be built to a price as that is their raison d'etre and they're very obviously going to appear in the poorest car buying areas and in those areas you are also going to find some of the least pleasant punters.
But it's also where you find perfectly normal people whose only crime is to be poor and for whom an MG gives them essential mobility, mobility that keeps them part of wider society.
If someone has purchased a super cheap car that exists solely in the U.K. to serve the poorest new car users and expects it to be as good as more costly products there is a chance that they have knocked their head.
Something like the ZS is very specifically targeting a particular demographic. It's £18k has the old 'zero finance' marketing wheeze, has a 7 year warranty which Proton proved to be a valuable tool when selling at this level and then mainly focussed on the size of the TV and that it has diamond cut wheels, two classic triggers.
I think the Mokka is over £20k, Quashkai over £25 as is the Ford Puma and I believe the Kona.
The Duster comes in at around £18k but financing cost, or at least part of it, is explicit. Clearly few buyers could borrow at 4.99% so there is a bit of smoke and mirrors taking place but with the MG they are burying the entire finance cost into the asking.
At the same time Dacia is very likely to have more stringent credit criteria than MG. MG are specifically choosing to misprice their consumer credit risk in order to drive sales so many of their customers wouldn't be able to get the same level of credit or any credit at all at other manufacturers.
I'm sure that if we looked at some of BYD's ICE products we'd see the same quality as like MG they're mostly building their ICE for consumers in Asia and elsewhere with no money. That is t a bad thing. Everyone should have the right or ability to have access to a car if one is needed to help better their lot. These cheap, crappy cars are infinitely more important than any other car on sale. Everything above the cheapest means to be mobile is a luxury and just not important.
But the EVs of both MG and BYD are different. They're being used to target a very different demographic which is very simplistic terms isn't the poorest motorists in the market but the poorest EV users. A completely different type of consumer. The EVs aren't about being the cheapest car available but about being at the affordable end of the EV market and the quality of these products is different as a result.
In some ways the Chinese ICE products were created for local markets and have been exported to Western markets as a byproduct whereas Chinese EVs were intended from the absolute outset to be exported. The whole reason China forced their local consumers to buy EVs and flooded EV start-ups with State funding (unlike the US and EU there was no domestic private finance to fulfil that role so a state is the only option and even today private equity and finance in China remains decades away from being anything remotely like even small, less developed Western markets like Frankfurt).
MG's and BYD's key EVs were destined from the outside to export around the globe and to displace incumbent manufacturers at the bottom of the EV market. Their ICE weren't. They were built and designed for locals and have just been patched over to get them to bare minimum export grade.
Our neighbour has just bought one of those large MG SUV's. £25k or something like that. They live in a 4 bed semi, worth about £450k, so they're not poor.
It looks a stonking pice of kit to be fair. The interior looks like it's taken cues from more upmarket brands but that's no criticsim. Outside it's pretty nondescript but smart enough. Not everyone is into how a car perfoms and for their family, it looks a no-brainer. 2 kids in the back. Loads of room for luggage and cheap as chips. I belive it's a PHEV so even cheaper for short runs.
Given a Duster is £18k nowadays, is less of a car and is unlikely to drive any better, this MG looks great.
It looks a stonking pice of kit to be fair. The interior looks like it's taken cues from more upmarket brands but that's no criticsim. Outside it's pretty nondescript but smart enough. Not everyone is into how a car perfoms and for their family, it looks a no-brainer. 2 kids in the back. Loads of room for luggage and cheap as chips. I belive it's a PHEV so even cheaper for short runs.
Given a Duster is £18k nowadays, is less of a car and is unlikely to drive any better, this MG looks great.
Zero Fuchs said:
Our neighbour has just bought one of those large MG SUV's. £25k or something like that. They live in a 4 bed semi, worth about £450k, so they're not poor.
It looks a stonking pice of kit to be fair. The interior looks like it's taken cues from more upmarket brands but that's no criticsim. Outside it's pretty nondescript but smart enough. Not everyone is into how a car perfoms and for their family, it looks a no-brainer. 2 kids in the back. Loads of room for luggage and cheap as chips. I belive it's a PHEV so even cheaper for short runs.
Given a Duster is £18k nowadays, is less of a car and is unlikely to drive any better, this MG looks great.
Being a PHEV does mean it'll generally be aimed at people able to plug it in though. It looks a stonking pice of kit to be fair. The interior looks like it's taken cues from more upmarket brands but that's no criticsim. Outside it's pretty nondescript but smart enough. Not everyone is into how a car perfoms and for their family, it looks a no-brainer. 2 kids in the back. Loads of room for luggage and cheap as chips. I belive it's a PHEV so even cheaper for short runs.
Given a Duster is £18k nowadays, is less of a car and is unlikely to drive any better, this MG looks great.
You raise an interesting aspect re interiors. China seems to have a less condescending opinion of lower end Western consumers and does seem to be giving their entry level vehicles smarter looking interiors. One of the things you'll often see commented on about the Seal is people liking the cabin space. People do like a bit of opulence even if they're buying cheap. I've no idea whether these interiors will be as rugged as others but that isn't the immediate issue for new sales.
DonkeyApple said:
Zero Fuchs said:
Our neighbour has just bought one of those large MG SUV's. £25k or something like that. They live in a 4 bed semi, worth about £450k, so they're not poor.
It looks a stonking pice of kit to be fair. The interior looks like it's taken cues from more upmarket brands but that's no criticsim. Outside it's pretty nondescript but smart enough. Not everyone is into how a car perfoms and for their family, it looks a no-brainer. 2 kids in the back. Loads of room for luggage and cheap as chips. I belive it's a PHEV so even cheaper for short runs.
Given a Duster is £18k nowadays, is less of a car and is unlikely to drive any better, this MG looks great.
Being a PHEV does mean it'll generally be aimed at people able to plug it in though. It looks a stonking pice of kit to be fair. The interior looks like it's taken cues from more upmarket brands but that's no criticsim. Outside it's pretty nondescript but smart enough. Not everyone is into how a car perfoms and for their family, it looks a no-brainer. 2 kids in the back. Loads of room for luggage and cheap as chips. I belive it's a PHEV so even cheaper for short runs.
Given a Duster is £18k nowadays, is less of a car and is unlikely to drive any better, this MG looks great.
You raise an interesting aspect re interiors. China seems to have a less condescending opinion of lower end Western consumers and does seem to be giving their entry level vehicles smarter looking interiors. One of the things you'll often see commented on about the Seal is people liking the cabin space. People do like a bit of opulence even if they're buying cheap. I've no idea whether these interiors will be as rugged as others but that isn't the immediate issue for new sales.
Personally I think they've got a decent business model. The lower end of the market doesn't need to be an advertisement that you've got less money and let's face it, lots of people in China have less money than we do, so they're catering for a big segment.
Here's a pic of the interior. Vents are a bit Merc and I'm sure some plastics are naff but for £25k, who's arguing?
Edited by Zero Fuchs on Tuesday 13th February 10:00
SV_WDC said:
BYD's core business is batteries.
Chinese EV manufacturers are a decade ahead of Western brands.
Throw into that the cheap cost of labour, materials (as they have a lot of the supply chain secured), tooling etc & the Western brands have a problem.
I would never buy a Chinese car of any description regardless of how cheap it was Vs others. I'm amazed that they seem to sell to people in the West.Chinese EV manufacturers are a decade ahead of Western brands.
Throw into that the cheap cost of labour, materials (as they have a lot of the supply chain secured), tooling etc & the Western brands have a problem.
TX.
Terminator X said:
I would never buy a Chinese car of any description regardless of how cheap it was Vs others. I'm amazed that they seem to sell to people in the West.
I feel similar (but never say never), however they may be quite handy in keeping prices down.Some "Western" manufacturers are selling Chinese built cars anyway.
Zero Fuchs said:
Yeah, I sometimes see them trailing a cable from their kitchen window as they don't have a wall box. Although you don't need to buy the plug in. The base model is £23,995 and a 1.5 turbo (not sure if petrol or diesel). I lie though, sorry. I think the PHEV is £32k.
Personally I think they've got a decent business model. The lower end of the market doesn't need to be an advertisement that you've got less money and let's face it, lots of people in China have less money than we do, so they're catering for a big segment.
Here's a pic of the interior. Vents are a bit Merc and I'm sure some plastics are naff but for £25k, who's arguing?
And according to the customer profile detailed by an earlier poster, who's going to notice engine flat spots or cornering ability if you're high on aerosol gas and one's XL Bully is busy tearing the MiL to bits in the back?Personally I think they've got a decent business model. The lower end of the market doesn't need to be an advertisement that you've got less money and let's face it, lots of people in China have less money than we do, so they're catering for a big segment.
Here's a pic of the interior. Vents are a bit Merc and I'm sure some plastics are naff but for £25k, who's arguing?
Edited by Zero Fuchs on Tuesday 13th February 10:00
Nice looking interior, long warranty, low price and pretty lax credit risk.
Plus, it's not named after a fish as apparently the Seal and Dolphin are!!
DonkeyApple said:
And according to the customer profile detailed by an earlier poster, who's going to notice engine flat spots or cornering ability if you're high on aerosol gas and one's XL Bully is busy tearing the MiL to bits in the back?
Nice looking interior, long warranty, low price and pretty lax credit risk.
Plus, it's not named after a fish as apparently the Seal and Dolphin are!!
Nice looking interior, long warranty, low price and pretty lax credit risk.
Plus, it's not named after a fish as apparently the Seal and Dolphin are!!
I PMSL when you replied "fish?" earlier but felt a bit cruel as DMZ wrote a sensible post and I agreed with him/her overall (no offence DMZ but for some juvenile reason it tickled me).
Zero Fuchs said:
Our neighbour has just bought one of those large MG SUV's. £25k or something like that. They live in a 4 bed semi, worth about £450k, so they're not poor.
One of the guys I work with on £100k+ a year has an MG EV on a salary sacrifice lease, having ditched an ID3 mid term. He's not bothered about the badge and it's a cheap way of ferrying his family around. Zero Fuchs said:
Our neighbour has just bought one of those large MG SUV's. £25k or something like that. They live in a 4 bed semi, worth about £450k, so they're not poor.
It looks a stonking pice of kit to be fair. The interior looks like it's taken cues from more upmarket brands but that's no criticsim. Outside it's pretty nondescript but smart enough. Not everyone is into how a car perfoms and for their family, it looks a no-brainer. 2 kids in the back. Loads of room for luggage and cheap as chips. I belive it's a PHEV so even cheaper for short runs.
Given a Duster is £18k nowadays, is less of a car and is unlikely to drive any better, this MG looks great.
I don't need to assume that you haven't driven either, it sounds like you haven't even sat in either.It looks a stonking pice of kit to be fair. The interior looks like it's taken cues from more upmarket brands but that's no criticsim. Outside it's pretty nondescript but smart enough. Not everyone is into how a car perfoms and for their family, it looks a no-brainer. 2 kids in the back. Loads of room for luggage and cheap as chips. I belive it's a PHEV so even cheaper for short runs.
Given a Duster is £18k nowadays, is less of a car and is unlikely to drive any better, this MG looks great.
The Duster is 10x the car.
I'd rather travel everywhere using only my eyelids than use the MG, the Duster on the other hand is a great car and exceptional value even now.
Having driven my sisters MG a few times you couldn't pay me to have one.
ChocolateFrog said:
Zero Fuchs said:
Our neighbour has just bought one of those large MG SUV's. £25k or something like that. They live in a 4 bed semi, worth about £450k, so they're not poor.
It looks a stonking pice of kit to be fair. The interior looks like it's taken cues from more upmarket brands but that's no criticsim. Outside it's pretty nondescript but smart enough. Not everyone is into how a car perfoms and for their family, it looks a no-brainer. 2 kids in the back. Loads of room for luggage and cheap as chips. I belive it's a PHEV so even cheaper for short runs.
Given a Duster is £18k nowadays, is less of a car and is unlikely to drive any better, this MG looks great.
I don't need to assume that you haven't driven either, it sounds like you haven't even sat in either.It looks a stonking pice of kit to be fair. The interior looks like it's taken cues from more upmarket brands but that's no criticsim. Outside it's pretty nondescript but smart enough. Not everyone is into how a car perfoms and for their family, it looks a no-brainer. 2 kids in the back. Loads of room for luggage and cheap as chips. I belive it's a PHEV so even cheaper for short runs.
Given a Duster is £18k nowadays, is less of a car and is unlikely to drive any better, this MG looks great.
The Duster is 10x the car.
I'd rather travel everywhere using only my eyelids than use the MG, the Duster on the other hand is a great car and exceptional value even now.
Having driven my sisters MG a few times you couldn't pay me to have one.
Ultimately the customers buying either aren't looking for driving dynamics but bang for buck.
But if it were my money I'd buy neither and get a Jimny, even in LCV guise. It doesn't drive that well, has a wheezy engine and lower rent interior than both but is, well, a Jimny.
DonkeyApple said:
And according to the customer profile detailed by an earlier poster, who's going to notice engine flat spots or cornering ability if you're high on aerosol gas and one's XL Bully is busy tearing the MiL to bits in the back?
Nice looking interior, long warranty, low price and pretty lax credit risk.
Plus, it's not named after a fish as apparently the Seal and Dolphin are!!
No, that’s your inference. I said estate, you decided that must mean Moss Side rather than new build.Nice looking interior, long warranty, low price and pretty lax credit risk.
Plus, it's not named after a fish as apparently the Seal and Dolphin are!!
Your usual word soup about living on the never never and obsessive buying of chattels would have been more apt.
ChocolateFrog said:
Zero Fuchs said:
Our neighbour has just bought one of those large MG SUV's. £25k or something like that. They live in a 4 bed semi, worth about £450k, so they're not poor.
It looks a stonking pice of kit to be fair. The interior looks like it's taken cues from more upmarket brands but that's no criticsim. Outside it's pretty nondescript but smart enough. Not everyone is into how a car perfoms and for their family, it looks a no-brainer. 2 kids in the back. Loads of room for luggage and cheap as chips. I belive it's a PHEV so even cheaper for short runs.
Given a Duster is £18k nowadays, is less of a car and is unlikely to drive any better, this MG looks great.
I don't need to assume that you haven't driven either, it sounds like you haven't even sat in either.It looks a stonking pice of kit to be fair. The interior looks like it's taken cues from more upmarket brands but that's no criticsim. Outside it's pretty nondescript but smart enough. Not everyone is into how a car perfoms and for their family, it looks a no-brainer. 2 kids in the back. Loads of room for luggage and cheap as chips. I belive it's a PHEV so even cheaper for short runs.
Given a Duster is £18k nowadays, is less of a car and is unlikely to drive any better, this MG looks great.
The Duster is 10x the car.
I'd rather travel everywhere using only my eyelids than use the MG, the Duster on the other hand is a great car and exceptional value even now.
Having driven my sisters MG a few times you couldn't pay me to have one.
SJfW said:
No, that’s your inference. I said estate, you decided that must mean Moss Side rather than new build.
Your usual word soup about living on the never never and obsessive buying of chattels would have been more apt.
To be fair, you didn't specify age of buildings and spoke mainly of truly terrible people so whether a new or old estate the place you spoke of is clearly ghastly. Your usual word soup about living on the never never and obsessive buying of chattels would have been more apt.
DonkeyApple said:
DMZ said:
Why do they even bother with dealers seeing as the only realistic path to sales is SS lease?
Brand awareness? It's not like these are stupid businesses but they do understand stupid consumers. If a punter is sifting through the list of what their employer offers then max prestige and brand are huge components of the process. People don't start at Toyota, they typically end up there after a thought journey that began in a different place. From BYD's perspective being in a few showrooms near to some things with shiny Merc badges and big numbers is no bad thing. Even if no one walks in and buys one it's the value association and brand awareness that is at work.
The bit I can't work out is why retain the 'Seal' name for the U.K. market where it is typically essential to have names so macho they're originally taken from all male sex shop products, like Warrior, Probe, Invader, Intruder or power letters such 'X'. The soft cuddly names are usually the reserve of cars patronisingly aimed at women by blokes still strapped in the 20th century like Adam or Funky Cat.
This is a big man's wagon with a price tag and usage case that typically fits GenX or older who don't seem a brilliant demographic for punting overtly Chinese products with overtly girly naming?
Again, it's hard to believe they haven't invested in researching whether a name change was needed so it's interesting and intriguing that they've stuck with it. Being mid sized mayne the research showed the most likely market is the under 45s where masking toxic masculinity is seen as important? Don't know but the name retention is the intriguing bit in my view.
Better than meaningless numbers.
I heard a BMW ad on the radio earlier.
For the latest EV model.
Well that had a proper dumbass name:-
BMW iX1 xDrive30
Number soup !
In the good old days you knew what a 3/5 series was.
The MG (any MG) in my mind suits someone who has zero interest in driving - think the original Nissan Micra (only my opinion).
The frightening thing is if buyers actually think they are buying a resurrected MG brand rather than some Chinese state owned tat.
What is more frightening is that I actually really like the styling of the latest Kia Sportage (yes I know it’s South Korean) - my views may have been tainted as currently in South Africa and there is so much really naff Japanese tat, in particular Nissan and Toyota that I’m assuming are SA only market as never seen them in the UK.
Then we have Chery and Haval here that are also Chinese state owned making big inroads into the SA market - they actually look half decent but no EV’s as the power supply ain’t great!
The frightening thing is if buyers actually think they are buying a resurrected MG brand rather than some Chinese state owned tat.
What is more frightening is that I actually really like the styling of the latest Kia Sportage (yes I know it’s South Korean) - my views may have been tainted as currently in South Africa and there is so much really naff Japanese tat, in particular Nissan and Toyota that I’m assuming are SA only market as never seen them in the UK.
Then we have Chery and Haval here that are also Chinese state owned making big inroads into the SA market - they actually look half decent but no EV’s as the power supply ain’t great!
Boxster5 said:
The MG (any MG) in my mind suits someone who has zero interest in driving - think the original Nissan Micra (only my opinion).
The frightening thing is if buyers actually think they are buying a resurrected MG brand rather than some Chinese state owned tat.
What is more frightening is that I actually really like the styling of the latest Kia Sportage (yes I know it’s South Korean) - my views may have been tainted as currently in South Africa and there is so much really naff Japanese tat, in particular Nissan and Toyota that I’m assuming are SA only market as never seen them in the UK.
Then we have Chery and Haval here that are also Chinese state owned making big inroads into the SA market - they actually look half decent but no EV’s as the power supply ain’t great!
I guess they suit 99% of people here in the UK, I know very few people who actually care about 'driving'. Although you are right regarding MG being a resurrected brand, I've had a couple of people make comments along those lines regarding mine.The frightening thing is if buyers actually think they are buying a resurrected MG brand rather than some Chinese state owned tat.
What is more frightening is that I actually really like the styling of the latest Kia Sportage (yes I know it’s South Korean) - my views may have been tainted as currently in South Africa and there is so much really naff Japanese tat, in particular Nissan and Toyota that I’m assuming are SA only market as never seen them in the UK.
Then we have Chery and Haval here that are also Chinese state owned making big inroads into the SA market - they actually look half decent but no EV’s as the power supply ain’t great!
Although the MG4 Trophy and upcoming Cyberster look like they'll appeal to those that enjoy driving. There are a few Chinese only MGs that are definitely aimed at petrolheads.
Silvanus said:
Boxster5 said:
The MG (any MG) in my mind suits someone who has zero interest in driving - think the original Nissan Micra (only my opinion).
The frightening thing is if buyers actually think they are buying a resurrected MG brand rather than some Chinese state owned tat.
What is more frightening is that I actually really like the styling of the latest Kia Sportage (yes I know it’s South Korean) - my views may have been tainted as currently in South Africa and there is so much really naff Japanese tat, in particular Nissan and Toyota that I’m assuming are SA only market as never seen them in the UK.
Then we have Chery and Haval here that are also Chinese state owned making big inroads into the SA market - they actually look half decent but no EV’s as the power supply ain’t great!
I guess they suit 99% of people here in the UK, I know very few people who actually care about 'driving'. Although you are right regarding MG being a resurrected brand, I've had a couple of people make comments along those lines regarding mine.The frightening thing is if buyers actually think they are buying a resurrected MG brand rather than some Chinese state owned tat.
What is more frightening is that I actually really like the styling of the latest Kia Sportage (yes I know it’s South Korean) - my views may have been tainted as currently in South Africa and there is so much really naff Japanese tat, in particular Nissan and Toyota that I’m assuming are SA only market as never seen them in the UK.
Then we have Chery and Haval here that are also Chinese state owned making big inroads into the SA market - they actually look half decent but no EV’s as the power supply ain’t great!
Although the MG4 Trophy and upcoming Cyberster look like they'll appeal to those that enjoy driving. There are a few Chinese only MGs that are definitely aimed at petrolheads.
Any MG EV is 10x better than the original non-state owned junk!
Silvanus said:
Boxster5 said:
The MG (any MG) in my mind suits someone who has zero interest in driving - think the original Nissan Micra (only my opinion).
The frightening thing is if buyers actually think they are buying a resurrected MG brand rather than some Chinese state owned tat.
What is more frightening is that I actually really like the styling of the latest Kia Sportage (yes I know it’s South Korean) - my views may have been tainted as currently in South Africa and there is so much really naff Japanese tat, in particular Nissan and Toyota that I’m assuming are SA only market as never seen them in the UK.
Then we have Chery and Haval here that are also Chinese state owned making big inroads into the SA market - they actually look half decent but no EV’s as the power supply ain’t great!
I guess they suit 99% of people here in the UK, I know very few people who actually care about 'driving'. Although you are right regarding MG being a resurrected brand, I've had a couple of people make comments along those lines regarding mine.The frightening thing is if buyers actually think they are buying a resurrected MG brand rather than some Chinese state owned tat.
What is more frightening is that I actually really like the styling of the latest Kia Sportage (yes I know it’s South Korean) - my views may have been tainted as currently in South Africa and there is so much really naff Japanese tat, in particular Nissan and Toyota that I’m assuming are SA only market as never seen them in the UK.
Then we have Chery and Haval here that are also Chinese state owned making big inroads into the SA market - they actually look half decent but no EV’s as the power supply ain’t great!
Although the MG4 Trophy and upcoming Cyberster look like they'll appeal to those that enjoy driving. There are a few Chinese only MGs that are definitely aimed at petrolheads.
Not everyone is a petrol head.
The jury is out on the MG4 et al - I’ll await the reviews with interest but they will have zero bragging rights I suppose?
In 1969 I was chatting to my sales manager in the showroom and a Daihatsu drove by.
We both agreed, Japanese cars will never catch on.
Tinny things that were rusty before they left the boat.
9 years later I was very happy selling Sunny, Cherry, Laurel, Violet and Cedric by the bucket load in the shadow of Longbridge.
I'm sure Chinese cars with similarly odd names will follow the same pattern.
We both agreed, Japanese cars will never catch on.
Tinny things that were rusty before they left the boat.
9 years later I was very happy selling Sunny, Cherry, Laurel, Violet and Cedric by the bucket load in the shadow of Longbridge.
I'm sure Chinese cars with similarly odd names will follow the same pattern.
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