VW to scale down production of evs
Discussion
Chippo1 said:
Wife has ordered a Renault Megane e tech , really nice and good reviews generally, but Renault couldn’t organise a party in a brewery, 5 weeks to get it delivered from a uk field to the dealer ! WHAT!
Logistical issues and haulier issues, that are beyond Renault's control I'm afraid.Sheepshanks said:
Frimley111R said:
It’s a nightmare for them as governments have told them to go EV, but customers aren’t convinced.
It's not going to be helped by things like today's front page of the Mail about pressure on the UK Government to back-off on the 2030 ICE ban.I live in semi-rural West Cheshire. Loads of VWs but ID.x are a rare sight. I am constantly amazed by how many Teslas I see though - there's a significant number of owners in our village.
Edited by Sheepshanks on Monday 3rd July 11:07
HTP99 said:
Chippo1 said:
Wife has ordered a Renault Megane e tech , really nice and good reviews generally, but Renault couldn’t organise a party in a brewery, 5 weeks to get it delivered from a uk field to the dealer ! WHAT!
Logistical issues and haulier issues, that are beyond Renault's control I'm afraid.It seems they just don't know - when we got wife's Tiguan, which we needed quickly, dealer wouldn't commit to anything under 6 wks. Car arrived in 8 days.
D4rez said:
Especially as from next year manufacturers will start being penalised for missing EV targets with a ramp up of fines up to 2030. These costs will pass through to customers of ICE vehicles and force the hand of the manufacturer to improve products and lower prices. Tesla are ahead of this with single powertrain offerings and not having to worry about a dead end legacy business.
Tesla reduced their prices and have just reported record sales of nearly 470K deliveries in the last quarter. The established MM like VW in Europe will need to up their game to compete. Silvanus said:
They obviously aren't crap, but are they actually great? I've personally not driven one but know a few ID owners who will be moving to rivals when they change. They've had niggles with various things and the infotainment sounds below average. I'd describe them as decent enough, but certainly not great.
There are many aspects that are worse than crap, that's almost a fact. As a car on the whole and squinting past the very worst bits it's OK.
It's atleast 10k overpriced. The cheapest ID3 shouldn't be much over 23/23k and even then I wouldn't buy one with my own money.
We got one on a ridiculously cheap salary sacrifice (£220 for a Pro S 200hp/58kwh)
I was thinking about it yesterday and if you factor in free insurance, no MOTs, free maintenance including tyres (1 set per year) plus halving the fuel bill (minimum) then it's essentially a free new car compared to owning a second hand ICE car.
Sheepshanks said:
I wonder if people are hanging on for much talked about cheaper models like Tesla 2 and ID.2?
People generally delay significant purchases in times of financial uncertainty - that coupled with the fact that there is a lot of conflicting (although much of it unfair) information flung around about EV ownership, also coupled with the fact that EV prices are starting to fall quite rapidly...I can well understand why anyone that was seriously thinking about buying an EV a year ago would decide to hang on for another year and see what's what.
BEV is definitely the best answer and the future solution. But as others have pointed out, it's an expensive to jump on board early and only so many people have the financial means and tech interest to make such a jump.
And clearly whoever does have deep pockets and a love of shiny new tech isn't going to be swayed by VW's very poor efforts. There are far more interesting and cheaper EV offerings.
TheDeuce said:
I can well understand why anyone that was seriously thinking about buying an EV a year ago would decide to hang on for another year and see what's what.
The problem for the industry - so including people like Frimley111R who wants more customers for charger installs, and customers who might be humming and harring about EV / ICE - is those cheaper models aren't next year, they're two years away.Sheepshanks said:
TheDeuce said:
I can well understand why anyone that was seriously thinking about buying an EV a year ago would decide to hang on for another year and see what's what.
The problem for the industry - so including people like Frimley111R who wants more customers for charger installs, and customers who might be humming and harring about EV / ICE - is those cheaper models aren't next year, they're two years away.It doesn't matter if that takes one more or two more years, people will wait and sales will level off for that period.
In this instance the fact that there is global financial uncertainty and so much else going on in the world has compounded things and some manufacturers are bound to seriously struggle as they attempt to calculate what they should be marketing/selling/investing in right now.
VW are an obvious example of turning up at the wrong time with a questionable product - this thread demonstrates why their cars specifically are struggling to sell.. But the transition to EV is a clusterf
k for all western car manufactures, it was always going to be difficult and there were always going to be some losers as the transition takes place.HTP99 said:
Chippo1 said:
Wife has ordered a Renault Megane e tech , really nice and good reviews generally, but Renault couldn’t organise a party in a brewery, 5 weeks to get it delivered from a uk field to the dealer ! WHAT!
Logistical issues and haulier issues, that are beyond Renault's control I'm afraid.Interesting to note there is a lot of talk of China in this thread. I've just got back from a 2 week business trip and while I was there I noticed that Chinese EV's are very popular now. In the cities I visited I reckon they made up 40-50% of the parc.
I was talking to a guy who works for VW while I was there and he said they are losing market share because their cars just don't appeal (especially to younger buyers) like the 'funky' brands do. I popped into a couple of stores and rode in a fair few cars and some of them are fantastic. Obviously I've not driven them, but the Xpeng P7 and BYD Han look brilliant, with an interior to match. They make a Tesla Model 3 look positively bland.
The VW ID range however, look like the interiors were supplied by fisher price. and that's the best bit!
I was talking to a guy who works for VW while I was there and he said they are losing market share because their cars just don't appeal (especially to younger buyers) like the 'funky' brands do. I popped into a couple of stores and rode in a fair few cars and some of them are fantastic. Obviously I've not driven them, but the Xpeng P7 and BYD Han look brilliant, with an interior to match. They make a Tesla Model 3 look positively bland.
The VW ID range however, look like the interiors were supplied by fisher price. and that's the best bit!
Edited by MrBig on Monday 3rd July 14:13
Sheepshanks said:
TheDeuce said:
I can well understand why anyone that was seriously thinking about buying an EV a year ago would decide to hang on for another year and see what's what.
The problem for the industry - so including people like Frimley111R who want more customers for charger installs, and customers who might be humming and harring about EV / ICE - is those cheaper models aren't next year, they're two years away.Smaller/cheaper models should help but with them comes very limited ranges in winter and whether that is a real issue or not for buyers, their perception may well say it is. Also, these new small cars will still be expensive. It's not as if we're going to see £15k cars ever again.
Had an A4 followed by a Passat up until I retired as company lease cars , both ok , but both suffered from software issues , even told by a dealer problem with hands free was because I had an I Phone , laugh ! Anyway cured with about the fourth update , A4 had software issues to especially with stop start not working intermittently. A4 loved hitting speed bumps driving around london god knows what it looked like under the front. A4 had high service costs to and dealers which were a shower.
Wife has ordered a Renault Megane e tech , really nice and good reviews generally, but Renault couldn’t organise a party in a brewery, 5 weeks to get it delivered from a uk field to the dealer ! WHAT!
Wife has ordered a Renault Megane e tech , really nice and good reviews generally, but Renault couldn’t organise a party in a brewery, 5 weeks to get it delivered from a uk field to the dealer ! WHAT!
I think they've really gone a shot themselves in the foot by ditching the golf brand.
I know a lady who really likes her golfs. Has had all the GTi's and when she went into the dealership and they showed her the ID3 as the "EV" replacement, she just thought "this is awful". Had it been a golf, with a battery, she'd have bought one. She didn't want this MPV looking thing with a natty plastic interior for the kind of money they were asking.
I reckon there is a lot of people like her, the golf has been around a long time, a lot of people know and love the golf. Its almost an "all things to all people" kind of car. Maybe the ID line are not meant for her but for younger types who don't have the affinity with the golf brand. Thing is, she has the money to buy and by and large, the "young" don't and if they do it's not going to be a VW that looks like a van. It's going to be a Tesla because they are like having the latest cool smartphone from apple.
Also the Korean options are far far more interesting and numerous and stuff like the MG4 seem to do the job better and cheaper.
I know a lady who really likes her golfs. Has had all the GTi's and when she went into the dealership and they showed her the ID3 as the "EV" replacement, she just thought "this is awful". Had it been a golf, with a battery, she'd have bought one. She didn't want this MPV looking thing with a natty plastic interior for the kind of money they were asking.
I reckon there is a lot of people like her, the golf has been around a long time, a lot of people know and love the golf. Its almost an "all things to all people" kind of car. Maybe the ID line are not meant for her but for younger types who don't have the affinity with the golf brand. Thing is, she has the money to buy and by and large, the "young" don't and if they do it's not going to be a VW that looks like a van. It's going to be a Tesla because they are like having the latest cool smartphone from apple.
Also the Korean options are far far more interesting and numerous and stuff like the MG4 seem to do the job better and cheaper.
A500leroy said:
HTP99 said:
Chippo1 said:
Wife has ordered a Renault Megane e tech , really nice and good reviews generally, but Renault couldn’t organise a party in a brewery, 5 weeks to get it delivered from a uk field to the dealer ! WHAT!
Logistical issues and haulier issues, that are beyond Renault's control I'm afraid.I've been interested in EVs since the mid-seventies when I was given a US book on DIY conversions. I cannot see myself ever buying one, though. Simply too expensive for me to even consider.
I saw a strange sight whilst attending a hospital appointment in December. A frosty day, there were a lot of older Teslas in the same large car park. I thought it unusual for there to be so many of them. I walked around the car park and they seemed to all be examples of the earliest models. Mostly quite tatty too. I then noticed one Tesla owner trying to get his remote to work. This seemed to be flashing the hazard lights of about four of the other Tesla cars. Even one tailgate automatically opened on one, but a security guard thoughtfully closed it.
I asked the guard why there were so many and he thought they were mostly from a private health company attending a training seminar and were possibly mainly company cars.
He said he believed the issue with the remote fob was that they were all fitted with aftermarket security and were possibly affected by the operation of the nearby mobile breast scanning unit. I was odd to see so many old Tesla together. Even more so when all those hazard light and horns going off together. Imagine returning to your car to find the boot wide open, contents robbed?
Then you have the issue with ALL Tesla cars. £80,000 and the indicators don't even work?
No thanks :-)
I saw a strange sight whilst attending a hospital appointment in December. A frosty day, there were a lot of older Teslas in the same large car park. I thought it unusual for there to be so many of them. I walked around the car park and they seemed to all be examples of the earliest models. Mostly quite tatty too. I then noticed one Tesla owner trying to get his remote to work. This seemed to be flashing the hazard lights of about four of the other Tesla cars. Even one tailgate automatically opened on one, but a security guard thoughtfully closed it.
I asked the guard why there were so many and he thought they were mostly from a private health company attending a training seminar and were possibly mainly company cars.
He said he believed the issue with the remote fob was that they were all fitted with aftermarket security and were possibly affected by the operation of the nearby mobile breast scanning unit. I was odd to see so many old Tesla together. Even more so when all those hazard light and horns going off together. Imagine returning to your car to find the boot wide open, contents robbed?
Then you have the issue with ALL Tesla cars. £80,000 and the indicators don't even work?
No thanks :-)
tobytronicstereophonic said:
I've been interested in EVs since the mid-seventies when I was given a US book on DIY conversions. I cannot see myself ever buying one, though. Simply too expensive for me to even consider.
I saw a strange sight whilst attending a hospital appointment in December. A frosty day, there were a lot of older Teslas in the same large car park. I thought it unusual for there to be so many of them. I walked around the car park and they seemed to all be examples of the earliest models. Mostly quite tatty too. I then noticed one Tesla owner trying to get his remote to work. This seemed to be flashing the hazard lights of about four of the other Tesla cars. Even one tailgate automatically opened on one, but a security guard thoughtfully closed it.
I asked the guard why there were so many and he thought they were mostly from a private health company attending a training seminar and were possibly mainly company cars.
He said he believed the issue with the remote fob was that they were all fitted with aftermarket security and were possibly affected by the operation of the nearby mobile breast scanning unit. I was odd to see so many old Tesla together. Even more so when all those hazard light and horns going off together. Imagine returning to your car to find the boot wide open, contents robbed?
Then you have the issue with ALL Tesla cars. £80,000 and the indicators don't even work?
No thanks :-)
None of that makes any sense at all.I saw a strange sight whilst attending a hospital appointment in December. A frosty day, there were a lot of older Teslas in the same large car park. I thought it unusual for there to be so many of them. I walked around the car park and they seemed to all be examples of the earliest models. Mostly quite tatty too. I then noticed one Tesla owner trying to get his remote to work. This seemed to be flashing the hazard lights of about four of the other Tesla cars. Even one tailgate automatically opened on one, but a security guard thoughtfully closed it.
I asked the guard why there were so many and he thought they were mostly from a private health company attending a training seminar and were possibly mainly company cars.
He said he believed the issue with the remote fob was that they were all fitted with aftermarket security and were possibly affected by the operation of the nearby mobile breast scanning unit. I was odd to see so many old Tesla together. Even more so when all those hazard light and horns going off together. Imagine returning to your car to find the boot wide open, contents robbed?
Then you have the issue with ALL Tesla cars. £80,000 and the indicators don't even work?
No thanks :-)
These days an EV can be had for £25k, most teslas are definitely not £80k
You can still buy a new ICE car for less but good luck running it for less.
I think you might not like change and have somehow justified that stance by blaming the local breast scanning unit?!??!
In reality there is no difference in security terms between an EV or ICE car. It's the same tech, all modern cars are electronic and software heavy.
Otispunkmeyer said:
A500leroy said:
HTP99 said:
Chippo1 said:
Wife has ordered a Renault Megane e tech , really nice and good reviews generally, but Renault couldn’t organise a party in a brewery, 5 weeks to get it delivered from a uk field to the dealer ! WHAT!
Logistical issues and haulier issues, that are beyond Renault's control I'm afraid.Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff