MG4 Electric

[LivLL]

Since 2019 manufacturers can't get a 5 star NCAP safety rating without autonomous braking systems.

My 18' Golf is fairly well behaved and only very rarely gives the warning on the dash and I don't think has ever braked unexpectedly. I'm sure it had settings in the menu which I set to the latest reaction - not sure if the MG4 has a setting you can change or not.

From my MG4 test drive which was in Chiswick, London and surrounding area for around an hour I didn't see it go off at all. That area is choked with traffic and prime for these systems to get confused. Personally, I wouldn't turn it off unless it was going off all the time as they do help reduce accidents and I'm not sure how your insurance would react if it was logged as off and you crashed into the back of someone.

Anyone got their X-Power version yet?

[TheRainMaker]

I don't know if it is just the colour, but there seem to be loads of these kicking about.

[kambites]

I guess at least one good thing about MG is that they seem to genuinely put effort into continuing to improve their cars' electronic systems even after they have sold them. They fixed a number of issues customers complained about on the ZS via firmware updates, hopefully they'll continue to refine and improve the autonomous systems in the same way.

[otolith]

LivLL said:

Since 2019 manufacturers can't get a 5 star NCAP safety rating without autonomous braking systems.

My 18' Golf is fairly well behaved and only very rarely gives the warning on the dash and I don't think has ever braked unexpectedly. I'm sure it had settings in the menu which I set to the latest reaction - not sure if the MG4 has a setting you can change or not.

I had a Suzuki Swift on holiday which had a fit a couple of times when it misunderstood what was going on. Didn't brake, just beeped at me and flashed things on the dashboard.

[Tycho]

LivLL said:

From my MG4 test drive which was in Chiswick, London and surrounding area for around an hour I didn't see it go off at all. That area is choked with traffic and prime for these systems to get confused. Personally, I wouldn't turn it off unless it was going off all the time as they do help reduce accidents and I'm not sure how your insurance would react if it was logged as off and you crashed into the back of someone.

Anyone got their X-Power version yet?

It would be interesting to see if the insurance could legally get this info. I guess they could already do it with traction control etc on older cars if it's logged. I've got a date of end of Nov for my X-Power. Just need to sell the MX-5 now.

[TheDeuce]

Tycho said:

TheDeuce said:

Tycho said:

TheDeuce said:

Pretty much all new cars have automated safety features that default to 'on' each time you drive. It's about reducing accidents/severity and also insurance premiums - and despite being annoying sometimes, they do actually achieve those improvements.

Anyone dismissing the MG4 due to active safety features is going to struggle to find any new car that doesn't have the same. Obviously some work better than others but they all be tripped by false circumstances and do anything from nudge the steering wheel to slamming on the brakes. My new i4 has unbelievably good driver aids and I've had no problems with. My business partner has an iX with the same kit and it's also been great, apart from the other day when it emergency braked causing her daughter to hurt her neck on the seatbelt.

I think this is rapidly becoming an 'every car' problem.

My wife's A Class has done an emergency stop on me a couple of times as well. Fortunately nothing was behind either time.

Yep, it's not a cheap or EV car thing, it's now just a car thing!

Glad no one was behind you - it still would have been their fault had someone hit you though.

This is the problem though, if the car behind is looking further down the road and can't see anything that you'd brake for then they might be caught unawares especially on a clear motorway so I would have some sympathy for them.

For sure. That's an adjustment we're all going to have to make though. In theory we should all be driving in a manner where we're always ready to react to anything sudden and unexpected happening, but we're human so of course we quickly learn to second guess and predict what the driver ahead will likely do, and base what we consider safe (following distance etc) on that.

Moving forwards we simply can't make such assumptions anymore, as there is every chance the car ahead is driving fully autonomously on main roads and motorways, and whilst driving extremely reliably 99% of the time, has the potential to suddenly make a very un-human like response to a situation.

Of course it's only a matter of time before the car behind is also likely to be equipped with sensors and have the ability to emergency brake just as the car it's following does.. But in the transition period, some drivers are bound to get caught out by these systems.

[Tycho]

TheDeuce said:

For sure. That's an adjustment we're all going to have to make though. In theory we should all be driving in a manner where we're always ready to react to anything sudden and unexpected happening, but we're human so of course we quickly learn to second guess and predict what the driver ahead will likely do, and base what we consider safe (following distance etc) on that.

Moving forwards we simply can't make such assumptions anymore, as there is every chance the car ahead is driving fully autonomously on main roads and motorways, and whilst driving extremely reliably 99% of the time, has the potential to suddenly make a very un-human like response to a situation.

Of course it's only a matter of time before the car behind is also likely to be equipped with sensors and have the ability to emergency brake just as the car it's following does.. But in the transition period, some drivers are bound to get caught out by these systems.

Totally agree.

[kambites]

Tycho said:

It would be interesting to see if the insurance could legally get this info. I guess they could already do it with traction control etc on older cars if it's logged. I've got a date of end of Nov for my X-Power. Just need to sell the MX-5 now.

They don't really have any interest in it - all the insurers care about is the relative risk profile of each model of car; they don't care why each model has the risk profile it does.

I'm sure there are people who have done studies into the effectiveness of these systems. Lets not forget this isn't the first time we've had this discussion and it wont be the last - plenty of people were worried about seat-belts and then air-bags causing deaths people and indeed both seat belts and air bags do occasionally kill people but they are now accepted as saving far more lives than they cost.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 26th September 11:35

[otolith]

kambites said:

Tycho said:

It would be interesting to see if the insurance could legally get this info. I guess they could already do it with traction control etc on older cars if it's logged. I've got a date of end of Nov for my X-Power. Just need to sell the MX-5 now.

They don't really have any interest in it - all the insurers care about is the relative risk profile of each model of car; they don't care why each model has the risk profile it does.

They might become interested in it in the event of an expensive claim which could have been avoided had it been enabled - though I think they would have to have included provision for it in their documentation.

[clockworks]

This type of problem is putting me off getting an MG4.

I've got/had several cars with these mitigation systems. Only had one that gave false alerts, a 2019 Kia Picanto turbo, that sometimes got upset at one particular junction that joins the main road from the left, on a righthand bend. It would see a car waiting to pull out of the junction, and think it was a slow-moving car that was already on the main road in front of me. Only ever did it at this one junction. Just a beep, flashing warning, and backing off the power for a second.

My current 2021 Picanto never does it, so Kia have obviously resolved the issue.
My 2022 C3 Aircross behaves perfectly, only giving warnings when I get a bit close to a car that's slowing to turn left, and I'm moving to the right to "overtake". Perfectly fine with that it's just a bit too sensitive.

All the cars just give warnings, and maybe cut power. No slamming on the brakes.

Unexpected emergency braking is just downright dangerous

[Mikebentley]

In 4.5k miles mine has done it twice

[TheDeuce]

clockworks said:

This type of problem is putting me off getting an MG4.

I've got/had several cars with these mitigation systems. Only had one that gave false alerts, a 2019 Kia Picanto turbo, that sometimes got upset at one particular junction that joins the main road from the left, on a righthand bend. It would see a car waiting to pull out of the junction, and think it was a slow-moving car that was already on the main road in front of me. Only ever did it at this one junction. Just a beep, flashing warning, and backing off the power for a second.

My current 2021 Picanto never does it, so Kia have obviously resolved the issue.
My 2022 C3 Aircross behaves perfectly, only giving warnings when I get a bit close to a car that's slowing to turn left, and I'm moving to the right to "overtake". Perfectly fine with that it's just a bit too sensitive.

All the cars just give warnings, and maybe cut power. No slamming on the brakes.

Unexpected emergency braking is just downright dangerous

Most new cars do slam on the brakes under certain conditions, and soon it will very likely be all new cars:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a44067783/automa...

Also closer to home, it's no longer possible to achieve a euroncap 5 star rating without them:

https://www.thatcham.org/what-we-do/car-safety/aut...


Hence, all cars will soon have it. There is nothing unique about the MG4 in that regard so far as I can see.

ETA: That's not to say MG's system isn't more fault prone than others.. as mentioned earlier, I know someone who has struggled once with it on their new BMW, who knows which systems are truly best or most reliable?

[otolith]

TheDeuce said:

Hence, all cars will soon have it. There is nothing unique about the MG4 in that regard so far as I can see.

ETA: That's not to say MG's system isn't more fault prone than others.. as mentioned earlier, I know someone who has struggled once with it on their new BMW, who knows which systems are truly best or most reliable?

I wonder if the magazines need to start including tests of these systems in their new car reviews? Must be possible to set something up which mimics the kind of scenario they get wrong.

[jimmytheone]

clockworks said:

This type of problem is putting me off getting an MG4.

I've got/had several cars with these mitigation systems. Only had one that gave false alerts, a 2019 Kia Picanto turbo, that sometimes got upset at one particular junction that joins the main road from the left, on a righthand bend. It would see a car waiting to pull out of the junction, and think it was a slow-moving car that was already on the main road in front of me. Only ever did it at this one junction. Just a beep, flashing warning, and backing off the power for a second.

My current 2021 Picanto never does it, so Kia have obviously resolved the issue.
My 2022 C3 Aircross behaves perfectly, only giving warnings when I get a bit close to a car that's slowing to turn left, and I'm moving to the right to "overtake". Perfectly fine with that it's just a bit too sensitive.

All the cars just give warnings, and maybe cut power. No slamming on the brakes.

Unexpected emergency braking is just downright dangerous

I've not had it happen in 4000 miles - a few warning lights sometimes, usually with people turning off the main road as i continue but no emergency braking.
There have been a few instances of lane assist giving the steering a tug but nothing i worry about.

[otolith]

This is the junction and pretty much the situation where my hire car had a bit of a panic - is this the sort of thing that's upsetting the MG?

https://maps.app.goo.gl/7TaYfQLH3gK2SuGe6

[kambites]

otolith said:

I wonder if the magazines need to start including tests of these systems in their new car reviews? Must be possible to set something up which mimics the kind of scenario they get wrong.

Euro NCAP already do test them, although I don't know if they test them for false-positives or just for their effectiveness in situations where they are supposed to act. Possibly just the latter.

[AlunJ]

In 10000 miles I think mines only slammed the brakes on hard at random once… because a speed bump is obviously something you’re going to crash into….

It does love to try and swerve me into cones and barriers though.

[M4cruiser]

ChocolateFrog said:

Alex Z said:

Silvanus said:

Sounds like these new safety systems are actually capable of causing accidents. Anyone know if there any reports of this happening?

Auto braking systems have been detecting “ghosts” from the day they were introduced. If you believe some forum posts it’s a daily occurrence, but other people report no problems so it’s impossible to know for sure.

You learn to drive round the issues.

The first time I tried to back our car onto the drive, 10 minutes after it was delivered it emergency braked. It'll also pick up parked cars which would happen almost daily at first.

You almost subconsciously learn to mitigate the issues and at most now you get the warning before it actually slams on.

The way I "mitigate the issues" with the braking is to press the gas pedal, this seems to cancel the autonomous braking, but I've heard they are working on "wrong pedal" systems which don't react to the gas in this situation, because it assumes the driver is trying to press the brake but got it wrong.

[SDK]

The XPower is currently cheap on salary sacrifice - £354 per month

-> 3 years, 8k miles pa
-> fully maintained, insured and tyres
-> No initial payment

[jimmytheone]

SDK said:

The XPower is currently cheap on salary sacrifice - £354 per month

-> 3 years, 8k miles pa
-> fully maintained, insured and tyres
-> No initial payment

Is that cheap?
Its still nearly £13k over 3 years.
My ermployer has just launched a SS scheme with Octopus, they were quoting similar but i dont know if i can stomach £13k over 3 years for something i'll never own.
Then again, 430bhp...