World's largest offshore windfarm starts generating
Discussion
Big Nanas said:
Essarell said:
Thanks for the detailed response, my point is we've rushed into renewables before we perfected or optimised their performance benefits. We closed down Coal way too early, under invested in Nuclear and completely neglected the National Grid, as a post above points out we signed contracts that now make renewables expensive.
I know that China invests in renewables but not at the expense of other forms of generation. Probably why their electricity is many times cheaper than ours as they've put economic performance as a priority.
You can't wait until something is 'perfected' or 'optimised' in order to use it. Technology improves in steps.I know that China invests in renewables but not at the expense of other forms of generation. Probably why their electricity is many times cheaper than ours as they've put economic performance as a priority.
Do you think that John Logie Baird looked at his invention of the TV and thought 'I can see this has shortcomings, I had better wait until I can build a 75" version that's 2cms thick with billions of pixels before I can sell it'.
You build, learn, technology improves, funding comes on sales etc etc.
It's a similar argument that the anti-EV people have "it's a stop-gap technology". But we can't skip to, what, a Star Trek style matter transporter because the technology isn't anywhere near that. But it might be in the future.
We'd all be stuck with walking with that mindset.
Essarell said:
The EV example is a good one, Uk gov brings forward a ban on ICE to then have to retreat because the infrastructure isn’t ready and the vehicles are prohibitively expensive, introduce ULEZ’s meaning perfectly serviceable vehicles have been scrapped then defer the ban by 5 years……that’s just been a waste of precious resources when supposedly the whole Green argument is to preserve.
Why are you conflating ULEZ in cities and EVs which are essentially about CO2. Obviously there is overlap but whilst BEVs are are all ULEZ complaint many ICEs are as well. Incidentally do you and your family live in a city?You opinions are your opinions but you never produce any evidence to back them up unlike many posters here rebutting your assertions.
Essarell said:
The EV example is a good one, Uk gov brings forward a ban on ICE to then have to retreat because the infrastructure isn’t ready and the vehicles are prohibitively expensive
The UK government introduced a 2030 ban on cars that could not travel a' significant distance' without producing tailpipe emissions.At no point were ICE hybrids able to travel a significant distance banned before 2035.
The UK government also introduced a ban on any tailpipe emissions after 2035, in line with the EU.
They then introduced a ZEV mandate requiring 80% of all cars sold in 2030 to be EV.
That left a maximum of 20% of new cars after 2030 as ICE hybrids, about 300,000 cars a year.
It then became apparent to the Government that of those 300,000 cars,even lifting the 2030 ban on pure ICEs, they would mostly still be hybrids anyway, making the 2030 ban a white elephant, probably conjured up by Boris to make it look like he was 'taking back control' and not just following EU policy.
Rishi took the opportunity to score points with the electorate by lifting the 2030 ban, despite that it will make naff all difference to the car manufacturers and their model range after 2030.
Everyone in Europe, which is where we buy 80% of our new cars from, has always been and will continue to work towards a 2035 European ban.
It may also be the case that the 2030 ban was confusing the hell out of everyone, as is visibly the case even here on PH....
Essarell said:
The EV example is a good one, Uk gov brings forward a ban on ICE to then have to retreat because the infrastructure isn’t ready and the vehicles are prohibitively expensive, introduce ULEZ’s meaning perfectly serviceable vehicles have been scrapped then defer the ban by 5 years……that’s just been a waste of precious resources when supposedly the whole Green argument is to preserve.
It's not a brilliant one as the 2030 date wasn't ever the date that ICE were to be banned, that was always and remains 2035. The 2030 date was just when pure ICE was proposed to be banned, ie when it just became hybrids and EVs. And it's a bit of a political trick as the ZEV mandate is still in place as are all the local authority aims so removing that 2030 element really changes almost nothing. The main thing is that the bulk of the population by the 2040s will be free of the direct economic impacts of the global oil price and its USD component. Plus, the sooner we can build our renewables the quicker households can more effectively switch to electric heating from nat gas.
It's a massive potential economic advantage over our economic peers and closest trade partners.
Nomme de Plum said:
Essarell said:
The EV example is a good one, Uk gov brings forward a ban on ICE to then have to retreat because the infrastructure isn’t ready and the vehicles are prohibitively expensive, introduce ULEZ’s meaning perfectly serviceable vehicles have been scrapped then defer the ban by 5 years……that’s just been a waste of precious resources when supposedly the whole Green argument is to preserve.
Why are you conflating ULEZ in cities and EVs which are essentially about CO2. Obviously there is overlap but whilst BEVs are are all ULEZ complaint many ICEs are as well. Incidentally do you and your family live in a city?You opinions are your opinions but you never produce any evidence to back them up unlike many posters here rebutting your assertions.
My assertions are of course just that, mine, like or feel free to rip them apart, I don’t mind but evidence? I only say what I see as I travel round the UK, we supposedly want to transit into a 22nd century economy when we haven’t even left the 20th.
plfrench said:
Essarell said:
Do wind farms (renewables) ever manage to produce their installed capacity? On paper we should easily be energy self sufficient but that’s not the reality.
As an example we’re receiving more energy via the interconnection to France (2.8Gw) than we are generating from circa 12000 UK based wind turbines (2.2Gw), looks like it’s the French that are helping to keep prices down?
Currently (3:00am) demand is low (22Gw) but the spot price is £130 Mwh even though we have circa 45Gw of installed renewable capacity with 4.5 Gw of Nuclear available.
It looks like more wind just adds more unpredictability to the grid therefore the consumer pays a higher price for electricity.
That can’t be good for heavy users like manufacturing, they have a choice, expensive energy here in Europe or relocate to other parts of the world where electricity is far cheaper and the prices much less volatile.
It’s particularly still at the moment - 10th Jan this year we were running at 21.69GW from wind alone for a 30min period. Clearly you need excessive capacity to arrive at an average point which gives sufficient supply. This is when those interconnects come in handy providing us with net income. It’s quite common for net flow to be out of the UK to our neighbours. As an example we’re receiving more energy via the interconnection to France (2.8Gw) than we are generating from circa 12000 UK based wind turbines (2.2Gw), looks like it’s the French that are helping to keep prices down?
Currently (3:00am) demand is low (22Gw) but the spot price is £130 Mwh even though we have circa 45Gw of installed renewable capacity with 4.5 Gw of Nuclear available.
It looks like more wind just adds more unpredictability to the grid therefore the consumer pays a higher price for electricity.
That can’t be good for heavy users like manufacturing, they have a choice, expensive energy here in Europe or relocate to other parts of the world where electricity is far cheaper and the prices much less volatile.
Edited by Essarell on Thursday 12th October 03:46
We're only usually exporting to Ireland. Quite to see any of the other interconnects negative whenever I look, which is most days.
Essarell said:
I do live in a city, blighted like many others across the UK by over reaching local authorities introducing bizarre schemes in the name of the environment that conversely lead to the decay of the local economy. I work in the utility sector, I cover an area from the Shetland Isles to Cornwall, just spent this week criss crossing London so I get to see every aspect of our country, its infrastructure and how that translates to our country’s productivity.
My assertions are of course just that, mine, like or feel free to rip them apart, I don’t mind but evidence? I only say what I see as I travel round the UK, we supposedly want to transit into a 22nd century economy when we haven’t even left the 20th.
It's important not to conflate local policies with the national policy. The national policy is pretty progressive and generally quite benign. Some local policies are bat sMy assertions are of course just that, mine, like or feel free to rip them apart, I don’t mind but evidence? I only say what I see as I travel round the UK, we supposedly want to transit into a 22nd century economy when we haven’t even left the 20th.
t mental and highly regressive. ChocolateFrog said:
Nearly 19GW of Gas currently, that must be a lot of gas, decent chunk of coal and that con biomass too.
That's my issue with a million wind turbines.
i'm not sure this is correct but could there be an issue withe French Interconnector? showing we are importing only 110Mw? someone tripped a breaker perhaps,maintainance? bad timing with wind off the grid.That's my issue with a million wind turbines.
Essarell said:
I do live in a city, blighted like many others across the UK by over reaching local authorities introducing bizarre schemes in the name of the environment that conversely lead to the decay of the local economy. I work in the utility sector, I cover an area from the Shetland Isles to Cornwall, just spent this week criss crossing London so I get to see every aspect of our country, its infrastructure and how that translates to our country’s productivity.
My assertions are of course just that, mine, like or feel free to rip them apart, I don’t mind but evidence? I only say what I see as I travel round the UK, we supposedly want to transit into a 22nd century economy when we haven’t even left the 20th.
Those local authorities are managed by your voted representatives. You can of course be one or contribute to the process as many of us do. Please do not complain if you are not engaged.My assertions are of course just that, mine, like or feel free to rip them apart, I don’t mind but evidence? I only say what I see as I travel round the UK, we supposedly want to transit into a 22nd century economy when we haven’t even left the 20th.
Uk productivity outside London is poor. I could say down to work ethic but people need to be motivated and we are not good at ensuring work is a fun part of life.
Renewables and EV are not really part of this issue.
Essarell said:
I do live in a city, blighted like many others across the UK by over reaching local authorities introducing bizarre schemes in the name of the environment that conversely lead to the decay of the local economy. I work in the utility sector, I cover an area from the Shetland Isles to Cornwall, just spent this week criss crossing London so I get to see every aspect of our country, its infrastructure and how that translates to our country’s productivity.
My assertions are of course just that, mine, like or feel free to rip them apart, I don’t mind but evidence? I only say what I see as I travel round the UK, we supposedly want to transit into a 22nd century economy when we haven’t even left the 20th.
We are currently in the 21st. century.My assertions are of course just that, mine, like or feel free to rip them apart, I don’t mind but evidence? I only say what I see as I travel round the UK, we supposedly want to transit into a 22nd century economy when we haven’t even left the 20th.
Happy to help.
Nomme de Plum said:
Those local authorities are managed by your voted representatives. You can of course be one or contribute to the process as many of us do. Please do not complain if you are not engaged.
Uk productivity outside London is poor. I could say down to work ethic but people need to be motivated and we are not good at ensuring work is a fun part of life.
Renewables and EV are not really part of this issue.
Productivity is mainly a function of demographics. Up to about the time of the GFC we, like most of the West, had benefited from a huge bulge in the working demographic thanks to the Boomer generation. But they are mainly retired now and the working population behind them is smaller so much of the reason why growth is now flat. The main reason that London outstrips most of the U.K. is down to immigration, whether from the regions or overseas it can draw in whatever labour supply it requires to achieve peak growth. That internal migration is a double whammy to the regions that already have inverted demographics to the point that some zones are not much more than low level labour serving non working retirees. Uk productivity outside London is poor. I could say down to work ethic but people need to be motivated and we are not good at ensuring work is a fun part of life.
Renewables and EV are not really part of this issue.
This is the precise reason why India will surpass China in the next decade or so re productivity. India has a near perfect demographic ttriangle whereas China in inverted and cannot import labour to fill the void due to being fantastically racist.
Nomme de Plum said:
Those local authorities are managed by your voted representatives. You can of course be one or contribute to the process as many of us do. Please do not complain if you are not engaged.
Uk productivity outside London is poor. I could say down to work ethic but people need to be motivated and we are not good at ensuring work is a fun part of life.
Renewables and EV are not really part of this issue.
Not engaged? that's exactly what we are doing now.....Uk productivity outside London is poor. I could say down to work ethic but people need to be motivated and we are not good at ensuring work is a fun part of life.
Renewables and EV are not really part of this issue.
UK productivity is poor outside of London due to policies that effectively decimated our industrial heritage, decisions were made to move us to a "high tech" economy (isn't that how T Blair sold it?) that's left huge sections of the North economically homeless. Again, introducing technology that by it's very design increases the cost of living does nothing to help the north.
Essarell said:
i'm not sure this is correct but could there be an issue withe French Interconnector? showing we are importing only 110Mw? someone tripped a breaker perhaps,maintainance? bad timing with wind off the grid.
It's showing 550MW now and was 640MW about 10mins ago. When you say wind is off the grid, it's windier now than it was when you flagged our lack of generation in the early hours - currently showing 5.35GW so not that bad now albeit only just over half our average for the last 12months.Big Nanas said:
Essarell said:
I do live in a city, blighted like many others across the UK by over reaching local authorities introducing bizarre schemes in the name of the environment that conversely lead to the decay of the local economy. I work in the utility sector, I cover an area from the Shetland Isles to Cornwall, just spent this week criss crossing London so I get to see every aspect of our country, its infrastructure and how that translates to our country’s productivity.
My assertions are of course just that, mine, like or feel free to rip them apart, I don’t mind but evidence? I only say what I see as I travel round the UK, we supposedly want to transit into a 22nd century economy when we haven’t even left the 20th.
We are currently in the 21st. century.My assertions are of course just that, mine, like or feel free to rip them apart, I don’t mind but evidence? I only say what I see as I travel round the UK, we supposedly want to transit into a 22nd century economy when we haven’t even left the 20th.
Happy to help.
plfrench said:
Essarell said:
i'm not sure this is correct but could there be an issue withe French Interconnector? showing we are importing only 110Mw? someone tripped a breaker perhaps,maintainance? bad timing with wind off the grid.
It's showing 550MW now and was 640MW about 10mins ago. When you say wind is off the grid, it's windier now than it was when you flagged our lack of generation in the early hours - currently showing 5.35GW so not that bad now albeit only just over half our average for the last 12months.Essarell said:
Not engaged? that's exactly what we are doing now.....
UK productivity is poor outside of London due to policies that effectively decimated our industrial heritage, decisions were made to move us to a "high tech" economy (isn't that how T Blair sold it?) that's left huge sections of the North economically homeless. Again, introducing technology that by it's very design increases the cost of living does nothing to help the north.
That is quite correct but more political rhetoric projected by the more tabloid end of the media. UK productivity is poor outside of London due to policies that effectively decimated our industrial heritage, decisions were made to move us to a "high tech" economy (isn't that how T Blair sold it?) that's left huge sections of the North economically homeless. Again, introducing technology that by it's very design increases the cost of living does nothing to help the north.
Given the reality of 2050, having deindustrialised in the 90s when there was an enormous tech boom taking place and then the last 20 years of debt expansion to create replacement employment the U.K. is in a great position versus our local economic peers who didn't see-industrialise but retained huge swathes of 20th century industry that now must be migrated to meet 2050 requirements but also cannot possibly compete against the might of North America or Asia.
If you want to have a window into how the future of the U.K. would be looking if we hadn't deindustrialised when we did then take a gander at what is happening in Germany right now and their rather grim economic outlook.
And if one really believes the rhetoric regarding Northern wastelands, starved of capital and kept in the 20th century then all one needs to do is visit one of the big Northern cities and have a look at how it compares to 50 years ago and the vast sums of money poured in to redevelop and deliver millions of replacement jobs.
Let's put it this way, there are Northern towns and cities where you can't move for Bentleys, Astons, Mercs, people shopping for non essential tat, flying all over the world and £1m manshuns. It's not grim oop north, it's just still got a bucket load of whingers gobbing off their grandad's outdated politics.
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