Best £15k used EV?

[Max5476]

I hadn't realised what was now available around for under £15,000 for EVs now. We were thinking of changing one of our cars this year, initially plan had been to replace my wifes car with a bigger family friendly car, but I might now consider replacing it with an EV for my commute (85 miles a day) for the running cost saving. We can keep the Seat Leon for the longer journeys, or perhaps just replace both the cars at once.

I had better pull together a cost spreadsheet and see what it says

I'm falling into the camp that if it's only £10,000 - £15,000 I could stomach that loss if EV depreciated to £0. As per the previous posters in this thread, when looking at a 3-year old car with some battery warranty left, 3 years should be certain, and 5 years should be reasonably realistic for a guaranteed life.

[bennno]

Max5476 said:

I hadn't realised what was now available around for under £15,000 for EVs now. We were thinking of changing one of our cars this year, initially plan had been to replace my wifes car with a bigger family friendly car, but I might now consider replacing it with an EV for my commute (85 miles a day) for the running cost saving. We can keep the Seat Leon for the longer journeys, or perhaps just replace both the cars at once.

I had better pull together a cost spreadsheet and see what it says

I'm falling into the camp that if it's only £10,000 - £15,000 I could stomach that loss if EV depreciated to £0. As per the previous posters in this thread, when looking at a 3-year old car with some battery warranty left, 3 years should be certain, and 5 years should be reasonably realistic for a guaranteed life.

Id start by looking at a larger battery 500E, or a Corsa E or the Peugeot Equivalent. Anything with 42-50kwh battery and 100kw + charging capability is relatively flexible and future proofed.

[samoht]

OutInTheShed said:

The cheapest Teslas on AT are 9 years old.
The Konas for similar money are 3 years old.

Crudely, the Kona has 9 years good life left in it and the Tesla has 3?

£15/17 or so for a 3 year old Kona with over 250 miles range looks like good value compared to older, shorter range cars.

Yes, it's more like £17k-19k I think realistically but I agree it's a bit of a sweet spot given how much extra range you get over anything cheaper.

And yes, a 3yo Hyundai with two years manufacturer warranty still remaining feels quite a different maintenance prospect to a 8-9yo Tesla.

I actually think most EVs will go on to 15-20 years like ICEs can, there doesn't yet seem to be any common failures to cause them to be scrapped apart from a fairly small proportion of battery failures. The worst are the Leafs with their uncontrolled battery temperatures, even they are mostly still usable just as a third car for nipping into town / leaving at the station, i.e. a more limited use-case. This could be proven wrong as the earliest realistic EVs haven't got to that age yet, just not seeing yet what would kill them. However given the issues with early Leafs and the risks of early Teslas, the wider choice of newer EVs seems attractive.

Max5476 said:

I hadn't realised what was now available around for under £15,000 for EVs now. We were thinking of changing one of our cars this year, initially plan had been to replace my wifes car with a bigger family friendly car, but I might now consider replacing it with an EV for my commute (85 miles a day) for the running cost saving. We can keep the Seat Leon for the longer journeys, or perhaps just replace both the cars at once.

I had better pull together a cost spreadsheet and see what it says

I'm falling into the camp that if it's only £10,000 - £15,000 I could stomach that loss if EV depreciated to £0. As per the previous posters in this thread, when looking at a 3-year old car with some battery warranty left, 3 years should be certain, and 5 years should be reasonably realistic for a guaranteed life.

Yeah, lots of negative news about the EV values crash, when I just see it as a good opportunity to buy one .

It seems that most manufacturers guarantee the battery for 8 years / 100k miles, so you should have another 5 years guaranteed if buying at 3yo. And it seems battery failures aren't common even beyond that mark.

85 miles isn't too bad, it would seem that most of the EVs discussed on this thread should do that comfortably.

bennno said:

Id start by looking at a larger battery 500E, or a Corsa E or the Peugeot Equivalent. Anything with 42-50kwh battery and 100kw + charging capability is relatively flexible and future proofed.

Even the early 28kWh Ioniq seems to do 100-120 miles at 70mph, and could do a 20-80% charge in 15-20 minutes at ~70kW.
https://insideevs.com/news/523652/hyundai-ioniq-28...


The question is, when you have a primary use-case of fairly limited range (85 mile round trip), do you just choose something that will do that one job satisfactorily, or are you tempted to spend "a bit" more for a car that will have the flexibility to tackle other journeys too.

[Sheepshanks]

Max5476 said:

I hadn't realised what was now available around for under £15,000 for EVs now. We were thinking of changing one of our cars this year, initially plan had been to replace my wifes car with a bigger family friendly car, but I might now consider replacing it with an EV for my commute (85 miles a day) for the running cost saving.

If you get on one of the EV tariffs you’ll save a reasonable size fortune - if it’s a reduced hours tariff you’ll need to charge every night though or you won’t be able to get enough juice back into the battery (at the low rate). And watch that the day rate doesn’t jump up.

[Sheepshanks]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Is that basically same as Kia Niro? I’m liking those but the latest Niro is too new so prices are high. The previous model is cheaper but against the new one it suddenly looks very dated.

Edited by Sheepshanks on Monday 24th July 12:56

[annodomini2]

HughG said:

Toaster Pilot said:

HughG said:

I’ve got a Zoe ZE50 I’ve had on lease for 2.5years. I’d agree with that, range down to about 170 in winter on the motorway being sensible. Not all come with fast (50kW) charging capability.

What’s it like for comfort / refinement on the motorway? I know it’s quite small but does it hold its own?

It’s fine, closer to a Golf than a Clio in size and driving manners. Range drops dramatically at 75-80, so I tend to sit at 65-70.

It is a Clio, mechanicals are basically the same, main difference is the floorpan and obviously the different styling.

[bennno]

annodomini2 said:

It is a Clio, mechanicals are basically the same, main difference is the floorpan and obviously the different styling.

Exactly which mechanical bits are common between a zoe and a Clio?

[TooLateForAName]

How about the Soul?

marmite looks, but owners love them and seem to be 3-4k cheaper than a niro. I think better cabin space but not so much boot space.

[samoht]

TooLateForAName said:

How about the Soul?

marmite looks, but owners love them and seem to be 3-4k cheaper than a niro. I think better cabin space but not so much boot space.

64kWh Souls seem to start at £20k (bar one example) on AT, whereas there are quite a few Konas at £16-17k. Otherwise yeah I'd probably consider the Soul alongside the Kona as they seem a similar proposition.

[kambites]

bennno said:

annodomini2 said:

It is a Clio, mechanicals are basically the same, main difference is the floorpan and obviously the different styling.

Exactly which mechanical bits are common between a zoe and a Clio?

Most of the suspension design is shared, I think.

[this is my username]

This thread got me very interested in the Kona / Niro, but then I saw the 10k mile service intervals. Having to get the car to a dealer every 4 months could be a deal-breaker for me.

[Pooh]

We have 2017 Zoe that has done 120k miles, it has mostly been charged to 100% and has been regularly run down close to zero, even on one occasion to below zero and it has lost about 15% battery capacity which I don’t think is too bad given how it has been treated.
It had a new drive motor and reduction gearbox under warranty, a new onboard charger out of warranty and now the heating/air conditioning has failed so the battery is probably the best bit.

[Max5476]

I sharpened my pencil and did some Maths, to try and estimate some running costs, to keep it simple I have just been looking at fuel. As a starting point, 18,000 miles a year in a Seat Leon at 48.5mpg (measured) diesel at 1.449, gives £225 a month just in fuel.

Taking an Ioniq, 38kW at 140 mile range (https://ev-database.org/uk/car/1165/Hyundai-IONIQ-Electric, highway mild weather) gives 0.270 kWh/mile
I'm currently with outfox the market which 28.13p a unit, so £126 a month, saving ~£100 a month.

Switching to an economy 7 tariff, at ~16p off peak, would bring that down to £75 a month, so saving ~£150, or best off octopus intelligent at 7.5p off peak to save £200 a month.

Would also need a charger so another ~£1,000 (should be a relatively simple install)

With a £1500 focus to trade in, and £15,000 to spend on the new car break even isn't for over 6 years, at best case. It only really works if I decide to buy a new car regardless. Decisions...

[annodomini2]

bennno said:

annodomini2 said:

It is a Clio, mechanicals are basically the same, main difference is the floorpan and obviously the different styling.

Exactly which mechanical bits are common between a zoe and a Clio?

Most of it, they're built on the same production line.

[stevemcs]

samoht said:

If we look at the example car in the link:
Vehicle registered: 26/08/2020 (from the ad on AT)
Date tested: 26 August 2021 (from the government MoT check website)
Date tested: 21 February 2022
Date tested: 17 August 2022

If it was an ordinary private car, its first MoT wouldn't be due until next month when it turns three years old. The fact it had a test at a year old and two more since is strong evidence of minicabbing.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Same for the others, bar the many examples advertised by Saxton 4x4 which to their credit state "Ex Private Hire" in the ads.

Taxis don’t normally have a mot, the Hackney test replaces it. They only need a mot if being used privately. It’s the same as the police.

A taxi company wouldn’t pay for an mot and Hackney test - or they don’t around here.

[samoht]

stevemcs said:

Taxis don’t normally have a mot, the Hackney test replaces it. They only need a mot if being used privately. It’s the same as the police.

A taxi company wouldn’t pay for an mot and Hackney test - or they don’t around here.

Yes and no - it seems to depend on the local authority. Some run their own testing scheme which replaces the need for MoTs just as you say, whereas others require a standard MoT but at more frequent intervals than a private car.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-testing-guide/c-de... says "Taxis and private hire vehicles that are licensed by certain authorities do not need to have an MOT certificate"

however https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-... TFL says "All taxis and private hire vehicles more than 12 months from the date of manufacture are required to pass two MOT tests as a condition of continued annual licensing"

So an anomaly either way could point to taxi use.

[mikeiow]

OutInTheShed said:

mikeiow said:

Yeah, the 90% recommendation didn’t cause us any grief.
Sure, it took about 12-13 months to get to us, but we now have a 4yr old EV with a 6-month old battery. What’s not to like?!

The fact that you've got an EV designed by a team with history of being crap at it.

Well, there are a huge number of Kona EV owners who disagree with your summary, including me, so I’m not sure your ‘fact’ adds any weight to the thread
Feel free to back it with some real world evidence.

Facts are that our 45k miles has been a fairly seamless experience, barring their battery recall.
Only other thing of note is that some owners have has 12v battery issues - ours started playing up after about 3½ years, so I fitted a £50 replacement with a 5yr warranty.
Some owners disliked the OE Nexan Ditchfinders, although we got 35k miles from ours before replacements….I think some don’t appreciate when you floor an EV, 100% of the power hits those drive wheels!

Heated and ventilated seats are decent. Adaptive cruise works like a dream. Acceleration is fine - pretty well the quickest hot hatch I’ve owned (sport mode is good, & be aware my hot hatch days were back in the 80s ), with a nippy enough 0-60 around 7s.
Boot space isn’t huge (like most small EVs), but I’ve slung my bike in the boot many times (front wheel off).

I honestly can’t see what equivalent EV we would replace ours with….perhaps why we still have it, 4yrs in!

[Vsix and Vtec]

Personally, when my time comes and i have to go the inevitable eco route, I'll be getting a Honda Insight.

[samoht]

mikeiow said:

...
I honestly can’t see what equivalent EV we would replace ours with….perhaps why we still have it, 4yrs in!

Thanks for the testimonial, sounds like pretty much what I'm hoping for :-)
Fairly straightforward to replace the tyres with MPS5s if I feel the Nexens are a limiting factor, as per https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvFVVqK-Fl4
It's hard to avoid the sense that Hyundai/Kia are a bit ahead of most companies in the low price, long range, efficiency and connectivity of their EVs, even if they've had to learn from a few mistakes on the way, as long as they're sorted under warranty.

Vsix and Vtec said:

Personally, when my time comes and i have to go the inevitable eco route, I'll be getting a Honda Insight.

The original Insight is pretty cool and a definite collector's item.

Personally though I really like the absolute precision of electric drive, the silence, smoothness, and seamless torque. So as one of two cars, it really feels for me like an opportunity to enjoy this, as well as trimming running costs.

[SWoll]

annodomini2 said:

bennno said:

annodomini2 said:

It is a Clio, mechanicals are basically the same, main difference is the floorpan and obviously the different styling.

Exactly which mechanical bits are common between a zoe and a Clio?

Most of it, they're built on the same production line.

They share suspension and braking components, and that's about it as far as I'm aware. When one has a traction battery and electric motor and the other an ICE engine, gearbox, exhaust system etc. I'd suggest that is the main difference mechanically?