Discussion
What immediately hits is the price. Ouch!
Specs and performance aren't enough, does Polestar have the brand/badge power to attract £90K+ for their cars? As many have pointed out, that's Taycan territory.
It's interesting to see how and where they are positioning the Polestar brand. It's 'luxury performance'. A fully specced iPace, eTron and iX hit the mark too and I can't say I'd get a poverty spec Polestar over those no matter how well it performs.
The EV market is highly competitive right now and it's only just starting. I can see many casualties in the next decade - some legacy, some new like the Lucids and Nios - as a "new order" is established. The market simply can't sustain 30+ brands. We'll end up with various segments and probably 3-5 big winners. Polestar appears to be after a sizable niche. Good luck to them.
Specs and performance aren't enough, does Polestar have the brand/badge power to attract £90K+ for their cars? As many have pointed out, that's Taycan territory.
It's interesting to see how and where they are positioning the Polestar brand. It's 'luxury performance'. A fully specced iPace, eTron and iX hit the mark too and I can't say I'd get a poverty spec Polestar over those no matter how well it performs.
The EV market is highly competitive right now and it's only just starting. I can see many casualties in the next decade - some legacy, some new like the Lucids and Nios - as a "new order" is established. The market simply can't sustain 30+ brands. We'll end up with various segments and probably 3-5 big winners. Polestar appears to be after a sizable niche. Good luck to them.
silent ninja said:
A fully specced iPace, eTron and iX hit the mark too and I can't say I'd get a poverty spec Polestar over those no matter how well it performs.
.
That's the point you missed - The P3 is not poverty spec as standard !.
Those other cars - the iX, eTrons, Taycan's need £20k+ of options (or list price over) to bring them up to the same spec.
The Taycan doesn't even have heated front seats as standard. If you bought a Taycan 4S for£86k it would be poverty spec.
SDK said:
silent ninja said:
A fully specced iPace, eTron and iX hit the mark too and I can't say I'd get a poverty spec Polestar over those no matter how well it performs.
.
That's the point you missed - The P3 is not poverty spec as standard !.
Those other cars - the iX, eTrons, Taycan's need £20k+ of options (or list price over) to bring them up to the same spec.
The Taycan doesn't even have heated front seats as standard. If you bought a Taycan 4S for£86k it would be poverty spec.
A Taycan CT 4S with black paint, matrix lights, two tone leather, upgraded wheels, heated seats and a Bose stereo upgrade comes in at £98k.
The Taycan has 800v architecture and is considerably quicker. And it's a Posche.
The P3 is too expensive for a jacked up EV Volvo estate IMHO and isn't an SUV rival for the likes of the iX or etron based on videos like the one below from TLBS.
At that price I'd be holding out for the Lotus Electre personally.
Edited by SWoll on Friday 14th October 11:00
SWoll said:
As mentioned earlier a P3 with the performance pack, black paint, matrix lights, and leather comes in at £93k
A Taycan CT 4S with black paint, matrix lights, two tone leather, upgraded wheels, heated seats and a Bose stereo upgrade comes in at £98k.
The Taycan has 800v architecture and is considerably quicker. And it's a Posche.
The P3 is too expensive for a jacked up EV Volvo estate IMHO and isn't an SUV rival for the likes of the iX or etron based on videos like the one below from TLBS.
At that price I'd be holding out for the Lotus Electre personally.
You are missing a load of options on that Porsche though - it's still poverty spec ! A Taycan CT 4S with black paint, matrix lights, two tone leather, upgraded wheels, heated seats and a Bose stereo upgrade comes in at £98k.
The Taycan has 800v architecture and is considerably quicker. And it's a Posche.
The P3 is too expensive for a jacked up EV Volvo estate IMHO and isn't an SUV rival for the likes of the iX or etron based on videos like the one below from TLBS.
At that price I'd be holding out for the Lotus Electre personally.
Pano roof (£1.2k), adaptative cruise (£1.2k), 360 cameras, head-up display (£1.1k), parking sensors/assist (£550), soft close doors, adaptive air suspension (£2.3k), heated steering wheel (£200), ambient lighting (£300), comfort access (£770), privacy glass (£350), blind spot monitoring (£500) electric memory seats, electric mirrors. The Burnmester sound system is like-for-like to the P3 Bowers and Wilkins setup (£4.2k)
Probably another £10k+ to add onto your £98k.
...and it has about 100 miles less range.
Also - RRP pricing is mostly irrelevant these days. Deals on Porsches - nope !
My lease order for a Polestar 3 is £850 a month - A Taycan 4S with the options mentioned above is over double that - £1,860 per month
The Lotus will be well over £130k, so another cost league up!
Edited by SDK on Friday 14th October 11:37
SDK said:
SWoll said:
As mentioned earlier a P3 with the performance pack, black paint, matrix lights, and leather comes in at £93k
A Taycan CT 4S with black paint, matrix lights, two tone leather, upgraded wheels, heated seats and a Bose stereo upgrade comes in at £98k.
The Taycan has 800v architecture and is considerably quicker. And it's a Posche.
The P3 is too expensive for a jacked up EV Volvo estate IMHO and isn't an SUV rival for the likes of the iX or etron based on videos like the one below from TLBS.
At that price I'd be holding out for the Lotus Electre personally.
You are missing a load of options on that Porsche though - it's still poverty spec ! A Taycan CT 4S with black paint, matrix lights, two tone leather, upgraded wheels, heated seats and a Bose stereo upgrade comes in at £98k.
The Taycan has 800v architecture and is considerably quicker. And it's a Posche.
The P3 is too expensive for a jacked up EV Volvo estate IMHO and isn't an SUV rival for the likes of the iX or etron based on videos like the one below from TLBS.
At that price I'd be holding out for the Lotus Electre personally.
Pano roof, adaptative cruise, 360 cameras, head-up display, soft close doors, adaptive air suspension, heated steering wheel, ambient lighting, comfort access, electric memory seats, electric mirrors - those are the ones off the top of my head.
Probably another £10k to add onto your £93k
SWoll said:
Sorry, the £98k already included a pano roof. You have a very different definition to poverty spec than I do it would appear as most of what you list I would consider superflous and only there to drive up the price.
Whatever your thoughts on spec - the Porsche comes with nothing ! No heated seats or heated steering wheel on an EV costing over £90k 
That's essential ! Yes they are cheap to add but that's not the point, it's just profit gouging.Regardless - the cost to lease a Porsche Taycan is approx double of the Polestar 3.
Edited by SDK on Friday 14th October 11:42
SDK said:
Whatever your thoughts on spec - the Porsche comes with nothing ! No heated seats or heated steering wheel on an EV costing over £90k That's essential ! Yes they are cheap to add but that's not the point, it's just profit gouging.
Regardless - the cost to lease a Porsche Taycan is approx double of the Polestar 3.
Heated seats and steering wheel add £500 to the cost of the Taycan, probably wouldn't worry too much about that. That's essential ! Yes they are cheap to add but that's not the point, it's just profit gouging.Regardless - the cost to lease a Porsche Taycan is approx double of the Polestar 3.
Edited by SDK on Friday 14th October 11:42
Your leasing numbers look a country mile away from reality I'm afraid.
The Polestar website suggests a 4 year, 10k mile per year lease on a completely standard P3 costs £1013 a month with £12k down with adds up to £1250 a month. A car specced to £91k (same price as a taycan CT 4S) they quote £1200 a month with £14,400 down, or £1475 a month. Good luck getting a confirmed deal at £850 a month I'd suggest?
A £91k Taycan CT 4S on the same terms can be had for £1250 a month BTW according to leasing.com, and the P3 is £1400 on there (both cheapest provider quotes). The Polestar is 10% more expensive..
ETA - And the suggested tarting price from the Eletre is £100k according to every source so far. Your numbers all look well off so not sure where they are coming from TBH?
Edited by SWoll on Friday 14th October 12:28
SWoll said:
SDK said:
silent ninja said:
A fully specced iPace, eTron and iX hit the mark too and I can't say I'd get a poverty spec Polestar over those no matter how well it performs.
.
That's the point you missed - The P3 is not poverty spec as standard !.
Those other cars - the iX, eTrons, Taycan's need £20k+ of options (or list price over) to bring them up to the same spec.
The Taycan doesn't even have heated front seats as standard. If you bought a Taycan 4S for£86k it would be poverty spec.
A Taycan CT 4S with black paint, matrix lights, two tone leather, upgraded wheels, heated seats and a Bose stereo upgrade comes in at £98k.
The Taycan has 800v architecture and is considerably quicker. And it's a Posche.
The P3 is too expensive for a jacked up EV Volvo estate IMHO and isn't an SUV rival for the likes of the iX or etron based on videos like the one below from TLBS.
At that price I'd be holding out for the Lotus Electre personally.
Edited by SWoll on Friday 14th October 11:00
Murph7355 said:
Like it a lot, but our next car is also going to need 7-seats (probably the last we have that will). So no good for us.
EV9for the 7 seats .... it's not too far off the cost of a P3.I'm tempted by the P3 - it comes with Pilot and Plus Pack as stnd at the moment so you get the B&W sound, 21" wheels and Head up display.
Extra 1600 for the HD LED lights though.... I'd prob pay the extra 1000 for the colour change.. I'm liking the midnight!
£80k is a kick in the teeth, but any similar car is not too different in price.
Delivery in Q2 2024 when I called Zenith who do my SS via work.
Cupid-stunt said:
Delivery in Q2 2024 when I called Zenith who do my SS via work.
The delay on this will hurt Polestar - it was supposed to be available from Q4 2023 but software issues pushed this back a year.I cancelled my order and went for a BMW iX.
The Lotus Eletre would also probably be my choice over the P3 now.
Thanks for the video reviews - looks very interesting and as an ex iPace owner, I'm seeing a few such styling cues on this, which is a good thing!
I'd defintely consider one if a decent lease deal emerges, I particularly like the embedded sensor/camera tech they've thrown at the car - it could be very dependable as a 'self driving' car in most situations.
My only hang-up is that I'm used to faster EV's - and I can't quite see how this car isn't a bit quicker given it's power/torque/weight stats. Do Polestar have a habit of reigning things in for safety reasons?
I'd defintely consider one if a decent lease deal emerges, I particularly like the embedded sensor/camera tech they've thrown at the car - it could be very dependable as a 'self driving' car in most situations.
My only hang-up is that I'm used to faster EV's - and I can't quite see how this car isn't a bit quicker given it's power/torque/weight stats. Do Polestar have a habit of reigning things in for safety reasons?
TheDeuce said:
My only hang-up is that I'm used to faster EV's - and I can't quite see how this car isn't a bit quicker given it's power/torque/weight stats. Do Polestar have a habit of reigning things in for safety reasons?
Not based on the stats for the P4. I know EVs have skewed performance expectations but a heavy SUV doing 0 to 60 in 4.5 secs isn't exactly slow.I'd guess the claimed stats are on the conservative side as P2 performance pack cars have been timed at sub 4 secs to 60 and not with the inbuilt app that can't count.
Edited by Basil Brush on Tuesday 11th June 15:41
Basil Brush said:
TheDeuce said:
My only hang-up is that I'm used to faster EV's - and I can't quite see how this car isn't a bit quicker given it's power/torque/weight stats. Do Polestar have a habit of reigning things in for safety reasons?
Not based on the stats for the P4. I know EVs have skewed performance expectations but a heavy SUV doing 0 to 60 in 4.5 secs isn't exactly slow.I'd guess the claimed stats are on the conservative side as P2 performance pack cars have been timed at sub 4 secs to 60 and not with the inbuilt app that can't count.
Edited by Basil Brush on Tuesday 11th June 15:41
It wouldn't be a deal breaker for me (it's obviously 'fast enough'..), I'm just surprised that this SUV is only a little heavier than my i4, roughly the same power/torque and AWD, yet they claim 4.7 seconds to 60 vs the i4's 3.7, which is irl more like 3.4 by tests. Or the iPace SUV which is just 400bhp, lower torque but manages 4.5 seconds.
The final gearing of the Polestar can't be that different either, it's got a 130mph top speed, slightly higher than the jag, slightly lower than the beemer.
Maybe a boffin can run the numbers - but to my back of fag packet maths brain, it seems like the car is pegged back a little.
How many times do you get to utilise the 0-60 before you get bored?
Sure if you are racing at every set of lights.... but for the most, I guess it is the 30-50 and 50-70 that I would use most.
What I was most impressed about was the comparison of WLTP to 'real life' driving (as much as that is the case in a warm Madrid) ... 85%.
So assuming there is 107 usable kW, that brings it near enough 310 range. Whilst you will undoubtably stop before emptying the battery, I could feasibly do the 490 mile trip from my place to my folks with one stop. That works for me!
I'm sue mine in Sept, just in time for the colder weather in Scotland so reckon 220 - 250 mile range.....
Sure if you are racing at every set of lights.... but for the most, I guess it is the 30-50 and 50-70 that I would use most.
What I was most impressed about was the comparison of WLTP to 'real life' driving (as much as that is the case in a warm Madrid) ... 85%.
So assuming there is 107 usable kW, that brings it near enough 310 range. Whilst you will undoubtably stop before emptying the battery, I could feasibly do the 490 mile trip from my place to my folks with one stop. That works for me!
I'm sue mine in Sept, just in time for the colder weather in Scotland so reckon 220 - 250 mile range.....
Cupid-stunt said:
How many times do you get to utilise the 0-60 before you get bored?
Sure if you are racing at every set of lights.... but for the most, I guess it is the 30-50 and 50-70 that I would use most.
What I was most impressed about was the comparison of WLTP to 'real life' driving (as much as that is the case in a warm Madrid) ... 85%.
So assuming there is 107 usable kW, that brings it near enough 310 range. Whilst you will undoubtably stop before emptying the battery, I could feasibly do the 490 mile trip from my place to my folks with one stop. That works for me!
I'm sue mine in Sept, just in time for the colder weather in Scotland so reckon 220 - 250 mile range.....
I think 490 miles with a one stop would suit anyone in the UK! I know some folk come up with truly bizarre weekly journeys that make an EV 'impossible', but when you get north of 300 miles real world range then you have enough to get anywhere in the UK provided you can take a 10-15 stop along the route. If you went any further, in any direction, you'll end up driving into the sea.. I think that's the point at which people need to give up the 'more range' demands!Sure if you are racing at every set of lights.... but for the most, I guess it is the 30-50 and 50-70 that I would use most.
What I was most impressed about was the comparison of WLTP to 'real life' driving (as much as that is the case in a warm Madrid) ... 85%.
So assuming there is 107 usable kW, that brings it near enough 310 range. Whilst you will undoubtably stop before emptying the battery, I could feasibly do the 490 mile trip from my place to my folks with one stop. That works for me!
I'm sue mine in Sept, just in time for the colder weather in Scotland so reckon 220 - 250 mile range.....
Yes agree entirely about the 30-50/50-70 ranges, they're what I actually use - but the 0-60 is a standard point of reference test and if a car is fast 0-60, that tells you plenty about how it'll do 30-50 etc too.
I used to say overtaking was stupidly easy in my iPace with 400hp. Do I need the extra 150hp the i4 offers to overtake..? No, I do not. But it does make overtaking even easier, and by extension safer - so long as you remain sensible and thoughtful. I would miss the level of power and pace I have today, even if I can't claim it's a 'need' or even particularly important.
TheDeuce said:
Cupid-stunt said:
How many times do you get to utilise the 0-60 before you get bored?
Sure if you are racing at every set of lights.... but for the most, I guess it is the 30-50 and 50-70 that I would use most.
What I was most impressed about was the comparison of WLTP to 'real life' driving (as much as that is the case in a warm Madrid) ... 85%.
So assuming there is 107 usable kW, that brings it near enough 310 range. Whilst you will undoubtably stop before emptying the battery, I could feasibly do the 490 mile trip from my place to my folks with one stop. That works for me!
I'm sue mine in Sept, just in time for the colder weather in Scotland so reckon 220 - 250 mile range.....
I think 490 miles with a one stop would suit anyone in the UK! I know some folk come up with truly bizarre weekly journeys that make an EV 'impossible', but when you get north of 300 miles real world range then you have enough to get anywhere in the UK provided you can take a 10-15 stop along the route. If you went any further, in any direction, you'll end up driving into the sea.. I think that's the point at which people need to give up the 'more range' demands!Sure if you are racing at every set of lights.... but for the most, I guess it is the 30-50 and 50-70 that I would use most.
What I was most impressed about was the comparison of WLTP to 'real life' driving (as much as that is the case in a warm Madrid) ... 85%.
So assuming there is 107 usable kW, that brings it near enough 310 range. Whilst you will undoubtably stop before emptying the battery, I could feasibly do the 490 mile trip from my place to my folks with one stop. That works for me!
I'm sue mine in Sept, just in time for the colder weather in Scotland so reckon 220 - 250 mile range.....
Yes agree entirely about the 30-50/50-70 ranges, they're what I actually use - but the 0-60 is a standard point of reference test and if a car is fast 0-60, that tells you plenty about how it'll do 30-50 etc too.
I used to say overtaking was stupidly easy in my iPace with 400hp. Do I need the extra 150hp the i4 offers to overtake..? No, I do not. But it does make overtaking even easier, and by extension safer - so long as you remain sensible and thoughtful. I would miss the level of power and pace I have today, even if I can't claim it's a 'need' or even particularly important.
I think it has a heated steering wheel as well .... but I'm not telling her just yet.
As for charging, range &keeping it clean, her participation is close to zero.
483bhp will be plenty enough for the school run. I didn't spend extra for the performance pack as I prefer the added range.
The kids will love the 25 speaker B&W setup.
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