Hybrid's - to plug or not to plug

[clockworks]

ian_c_uk said:

https://www.hyundai.news/eu/articles/press-release...

My wife runs a Kia Stonic with the 1.0 TGDI MHEV - I was hugely sceptical but you can't argue with a petrol that easily surpasses 50mpg on motorway.

I believe this engine has been offered in the Bayon and Kona, so they may be talking about MHEV.

Does a mild hybrid system really make any difference at motorway speeds? I can see it helping a bit on A roads (a lot of accelerating and braking), of in traffic (improved stop/start), but what dies it do at constant speeds when there's next to no regen going on?

As for mpg, I had a C3 Aircross with the normal 1.2 petrol, and that was averaging 47mpg in mixed driving, and a Picanto with the same 1 litre turbo triple as the Stonic, (but no hybrid stuff) and that averaged 53mpg in mixed driving.

I'm really not convinced at all about the benefits of a 48v mild hybrid system, outside of the WLTP tests.

[paralla]

clockworks said:

Does a mild hybrid system really make any difference at motorway speeds? I can see it helping a bit on A roads (a lot of accelerating and braking), of in traffic (improved stop/start), but what dies it do at constant speeds when there's next to no regen going on?

As for mpg, I had a C3 Aircross with the normal 1.2 petrol, and that was averaging 47mpg in mixed driving, and a Picanto with the same 1 litre turbo triple as the Stonic, (but no hybrid stuff) and that averaged 53mpg in mixed driving.

I'm really not convinced at all about the benefits of a 48v mild hybrid system, outside of the WLTP tests.

They are much smoother than conventional starter motors when restarting so are more refined.

You get to tell all your friends and strangers on the internet that you drive a hybrid.

[Evanivitch]

ian_c_uk said:

https://www.hyundai.news/eu/articles/press-release...

My wife runs a Kia Stonic with the 1.0 TGDI MHEV - I was hugely sceptical but you can't argue with a petrol that easily surpasses 50mpg on motorway.

I believe this engine has been offered in the Bayon and Kona, so they may be talking about MHEV.

I thought Kona Hybrid was a 240V battery in the UK.

[ian_c_uk]

clockworks said:

ian_c_uk said:

https://www.hyundai.news/eu/articles/press-release...

My wife runs a Kia Stonic with the 1.0 TGDI MHEV - I was hugely sceptical but you can't argue with a petrol that easily surpasses 50mpg on motorway.

I believe this engine has been offered in the Bayon and Kona, so they may be talking about MHEV.

Does a mild hybrid system really make any difference at motorway speeds? I can see it helping a bit on A roads (a lot of accelerating and braking), of in traffic (improved stop/start), but what dies it do at constant speeds when there's next to no regen going on?

As for mpg, I had a C3 Aircross with the normal 1.2 petrol, and that was averaging 47mpg in mixed driving, and a Picanto with the same 1 litre turbo triple as the Stonic, (but no hybrid stuff) and that averaged 53mpg in mixed driving.

I'm really not convinced at all about the benefits of a 48v mild hybrid system, outside of the WLTP tests.

It just wants to turn the engine off and coast at every opportunity, whether in traffic or every slight decline, feels like every time I look down it's "sailing" according to the dash display!

As I say, I was hugely sceptical, but it's a much bigger car than her previous Picanto, and does at least as well on fuel.

(Her Picanto was a 1.25na, and mway mpg, not to mention NVH, was not helped by a 4spd auto)

Let me be clear, I massively prefer my (much heavier!) BEV, but for what it is (price \ size \ weight etc), it has impressed me.

[paralla]

ian_c_uk said:

paralla said:

Since Hyundai doesn’t have a mild hybrid in its current lineup your Hyundais are most likely hybrids that can operate without the ICE, unlike your Range Rover.

https://www.hyundai.news/eu/articles/press-releases/hyundai-48-volt-mild-hybrid-system.html

My wife runs a Kia Stonic with the 1.0 TGDI MHEV - I was hugely sceptical but you can't argue with a petrol that easily surpasses 50mpg on motorway.

I believe this engine has been offered in the Bayon and Kona, so they may be talking about MHEV.

Looks like they do a 48V Mild Hybrid Tucson. I don’t know if it’s available in the UK.
https://dmassets.hyundai.com/is/content/hyundaiaut...

[Phil.]

paralla said:

Looks like they do a 48V Mild Hybrid Tucson. I don’t know if it’s available in the UK.
https://dmassets.hyundai.com/is/content/hyundaiaut...

Glad you’ve caught up at the back! I own two of the Hyundai MHEV’s, despite your highly qualified and experienced background in green stuff asserting that they don’t exist

[Phil.]

clockworks said:

Does a mild hybrid system really make any difference at motorway speeds? I can see it helping a bit on A roads (a lot of accelerating and braking), of in traffic (improved stop/start), but what dies it do at constant speeds when there's next to no regen going on?

As for mpg, I had a C3 Aircross with the normal 1.2 petrol, and that was averaging 47mpg in mixed driving, and a Picanto with the same 1 litre turbo triple as the Stonic, (but no hybrid stuff) and that averaged 53mpg in mixed driving.

I'm really not convinced at all about the benefits of a 48v mild hybrid system, outside of the WLTP tests.

In eco mode if you ease off the throttle the engine shuts down, the clutch is disconnected and the battery keeps everything operating, meaning zero petrol use for a while. As soon as you brake, put the clutch in, or touch the throttle the engine starts again.

Generally, MHEV’s use batteries to do stuff that makes them more efficient than the equivalent ICE. Each manufacturer is different in terms of how they use the battery power although I expect the Hyundai and Kia systems to operate similarly.

[Phil.]

paralla said:

Mild hybrid - can not drive the car using just the battery and electric motor. 0 miles electric range. Basically a beefy starter motor (usually belt driven) that’s better at stop/start than a conventional starter motor.

In Land Rover products they allow the engine to stop below 17mph.
https://youtu.be/FmgXkLZJPOY?si=QgyDD3962pr43JG-

The battery and electric motor in a hybrid are big enough to move the car without the ICE

Since Hyundai doesn’t have a mild hybrid in its current lineup your Hyundais are most likely hybrids that can operate without the ICE, unlike your Range Rover.

They have a pretty clear website describing the differences.

https://www.hyundai.com/uk/en/electrification/owni...

We are 13 pages in and you are still not sure about basic definitions.

Like most of your posts, the one about me knowing the difference despite my husband owning a hybrid and me owning a PHEV isn’t clear.

In case you were questioning my knowledge on the subject, owning the two types of car the OP is considering (and knowing what they are) along with my degree in electrical engineering and my career in green tech I am quietly confident that I know what I’m talking about.

Quoted for prosperity

[paralla]

Phil. said:

paralla said:

Mild hybrid - can not drive the car using just the battery and electric motor. 0 miles electric range. Basically a beefy starter motor (usually belt driven) that’s better at stop/start than a conventional starter motor.

In Land Rover products they allow the engine to stop below 17mph.
https://youtu.be/FmgXkLZJPOY?si=QgyDD3962pr43JG-

The battery and electric motor in a hybrid are big enough to move the car without the ICE

Since Hyundai doesn’t have a mild hybrid in its current lineup your Hyundais are most likely hybrids that can operate without the ICE, unlike your Range Rover.

They have a pretty clear website describing the differences.

https://www.hyundai.com/uk/en/electrification/owni...

We are 13 pages in and you are still not sure about basic definitions.

Like most of your posts, the one about me knowing the difference despite my husband owning a hybrid and me owning a PHEV isn’t clear.

In case you were questioning my knowledge on the subject, owning the two types of car the OP is considering (and knowing what they are) along with my degree in electrical engineering and my career in green tech I am quietly confident that I know what I’m talking about.

Quoted for prosperity

Haven’t you come a long way? In such a short time as well!

Yesterday you asked what the difference is between a mild hybrid and a hybrid.

I’m genuinely pleased for you.

[TheDeuce]

Phil. said:

paralla said:

Mild hybrid - can not drive the car using just the battery and electric motor. 0 miles electric range. Basically a beefy starter motor (usually belt driven) that’s better at stop/start than a conventional starter motor.

In Land Rover products they allow the engine to stop below 17mph.
https://youtu.be/FmgXkLZJPOY?si=QgyDD3962pr43JG-

The battery and electric motor in a hybrid are big enough to move the car without the ICE

Since Hyundai doesn’t have a mild hybrid in its current lineup your Hyundais are most likely hybrids that can operate without the ICE, unlike your Range Rover.

They have a pretty clear website describing the differences.

https://www.hyundai.com/uk/en/electrification/owni...

We are 13 pages in and you are still not sure about basic definitions.

Like most of your posts, the one about me knowing the difference despite my husband owning a hybrid and me owning a PHEV isn’t clear.

In case you were questioning my knowledge on the subject, owning the two types of car the OP is considering (and knowing what they are) along with my degree in electrical engineering and my career in green tech I am quietly confident that I know what I’m talking about.

Quoted for prosperity

He probably meant prosterity, or quite possibly doesn't know the difference.

[paralla]

TheDeuce said:

He probably meant prosterity, or quite possibly doesn't know the difference.

I left it alone. At this point it’s too easy.

[Phil.]

paralla said:

TheDeuce said:

He probably meant prosterity, or quite possibly doesn't know the difference.

I left it alone. At this point it’s too easy.

That’s my dyslexia you can both laugh at.

[paralla]

Phil. said:

That’s my dyslexia you can both laugh at.

Was it your dyslexia that caused you to not know the difference between a hybrid and a mild hybrid yesterday, despite owning/leasing three of them?

[Phil.]

paralla said:

Was it your dyslexia that caused you to not know the difference between a hybrid and a mild hybrid yesterday, despite owning/leasing three of them?

I was confused by your hybrid definitions and asked for clarification. I didn’t ask for your qualifications and experience. But we have more in common than you may think as I too graduated in electrical and electronic engineering all be it more than 40 years ago. I also went on the complete a PhD in electronics. I may confuse a few words or mis-understand the written word occasionally but I’m no dunce when it comes to understanding engineering matters.

You seem to be interested whether own or lease, all my cars are owned and paid for.

[paralla]

Phil. said:

I was confused by your hybrid definitions and asked for clarification. I didn’t ask for your qualifications and experience. But we have more in common than you may think as I too graduated in electrical and electronic engineering all be it more than 40 years ago. I also went on the complete a PhD in electronics. I may confuse a few words or mis-understand the written word occasionally but I’m no dunce when it comes to understanding engineering matters.

You seem to be interested whether own or lease, all my cars are owned and paid for.

My definitions of hybrid and mild hybrid are the same as is generally accepted.

I’m not at all interested if you own or lease your cars but your posting history shows that you like to focus in on any minor point that is in no way associated with the core subject but might not be 100% the truth or accurate to push back on.

I included the lease comment so you couldn’t come back with something like “shows how ignorant you are, all my cars are leased, Ha Ha!” I’m imagining you’d do it in the voice of Nelson Muntz from The Simpsons.

Now I know you are disabled I’ll back off.

Edited to add : Handbags at dawn is the correct homophonic slur rather than “flounce off”.

Edited by paralla on Wednesday 26th June 17:55

[ajprice]

paralla said:

Now I know you are disabled I’ll back off.

[TheDeuce]

Phil. said:

paralla said:

Was it your dyslexia that caused you to not know the difference between a hybrid and a mild hybrid yesterday, despite owning/leasing three of them?

I was confused by your hybrid definitions and asked for clarification. I didn’t ask for your qualifications and experience. But we have more in common than you may think as I too graduated in electrical and electronic engineering all be it more than 40 years ago. I also went on the complete a PhD in electronics. I may confuse a few words or mis-understand the written word occasionally but I’m no dunce when it comes to understanding engineering matters.

You seem to be interested whether own or lease, all my cars are owned and paid for.

Owned and paid for... All depreciating assets are effectively a lease.

All that matters is the cars net cost for the period of its use

[Evanivitch]

Phil. said:

I was confused by your hybrid definitions and asked for clarification. .

I appreciate it's a complex term that has only been used for a decade.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/alterna...

[Phil.]

TheDeuce said:

Owned and paid for... All depreciating assets are effectively a lease.

All that matters is the cars net cost for the period of its use

Agreed.

[Phil.]

Evanivitch said:

Phil. said:

I was confused by your hybrid definitions and asked for clarification. .

I appreciate it's a complex term that has only been used for a decade.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/alterna...

I’m quite clear about hybrid definitions for cars but the way in which they were being used on this thread was becoming confusing, as are most PH posts eventually.