VW to scale down production of evs
Discussion
TheRainMaker said:
I'm not sure that is 100% fair 
quite a few Tesla owners would have purchased one with the normally excellent charging network in mind, the first time they probably would have used it was at Christmas, and it fell over for some of them.
If it happens this year, they have no excuse.
Indeed. It's not going to be 100% fair as there would have been a few 'normals' who made a genuine mistake. quite a few Tesla owners would have purchased one with the normally excellent charging network in mind, the first time they probably would have used it was at Christmas, and it fell over for some of them.If it happens this year, they have no excuse.
We've all run out of petrol at some point or come very close to it. But there is then a divergence between those who learn and adapt and those for whom that's the rest of their life.
DonkeyApple said:
TheRainMaker said:
I'm not sure that is 100% fair quite a few Tesla owners would have purchased one with the normally excellent charging network in mind, the first time they probably would have used it was at Christmas, and it fell over for some of them.
If it happens this year, they have no excuse.
Indeed. It's not going to be 100% fair as there would have been a few 'normals' who made a genuine mistake. quite a few Tesla owners would have purchased one with the normally excellent charging network in mind, the first time they probably would have used it was at Christmas, and it fell over for some of them.If it happens this year, they have no excuse.
We've all run out of petrol at some point or come very close to it. But there is then a divergence between those who learn and adapt and those for whom that's the rest of their life.
Ok, a few may have free supercharging, or the Tesla charger may be a bit cheaper, but if it’s a choice between sitting in a queue like that photo, or paying a little more, I know exactly what I’m doing.
coetzeeh said:
And despite the doom and gloom VAG revenue grew from 180bn euros in 2012 to 270bn in 2022.
And yet they're still owing ~$190bn US. Whichever way you slice it, they're a mess.It's also worth noting (inflation aside) that you could buy a Golf TDI in 2012 for £16k. The cheapest in 2022 was £26k and a similar diesel a bit more than that.
The difference in price isn't reflected in the increase in revenue so the jury's out whether there should be any doom and gloom.
Edited by Zero Fuchs on Thursday 13th July 09:13
Frimley111R said:
TheRainMaker said:
Pointless stat though if you include all the vehicles VW sells here. They have no problem shifting cars in the UK in any case.
TheRainMaker said:
Frimley111R said:
TheRainMaker said:
Pointless stat though if you include all the vehicles VW sells here. They have no problem shifting cars in the UK in any case.
Tesla is growing its manufacturing capacity. The Model3/Y outsell most other EVs on the market. Currently they in a strong position. We are just 7 years away from the start of the mandated switch over in the UK and Europe more widely. Tesla will be in a very strong place to take a very significant portion of that market unless other European manufactures make their models more appealing.
TheRainMaker said:
It was more, there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with VAG sales. They seem more popular than ever. It must just be that either the VAG BEV offerings aren't as popular as they thought, or they overestimated how popular BEVs would be in general.
They have no problem shifting cars in the UK in any case.
VAG, and all the other mass market car makers are failing to sell enough cars to modernise the UK fleet.They have no problem shifting cars in the UK in any case.
Not just failing to turn the fleet electric, but also failing to replace Euro 4 and older cars in any reasonable time scale.
We have an ageing fleet of over 30 million cars, and the new cars we are adding are not matched by older cars being removed.
Cars generally are too expensive in relation to the earnings of the people who need them.
Modern cars are also not designed to have long enough economic lives to serve their later low-budget owners.
There is a huge gap in the market which VW and the other mainstream car makers are not serving.
They are like Triumph, Norton and BSA in the 60s, ripe to be humiliated by imports.
Nomme de Plum said:
TheRainMaker said:
Frimley111R said:
TheRainMaker said:
Pointless stat though if you include all the vehicles VW sells here. They have no problem shifting cars in the UK in any case.
Tesla is growing its manufacturing capacity. The Model3/Y outsell most other EVs on the market. Currently they in a strong position. We are just 7 years away from the start of the mandated switch over in the UK and Europe more widely. Tesla will be in a very strong place to take a very significant portion of that market unless other European manufactures make their models more appealing.
Tesla has done some amazing things, but the market share in the UK is still quite small at 2.75%
VW will move to BEV when they need to.
OutInTheShed said:
TheRainMaker said:
It was more, there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with VAG sales. They seem more popular than ever. It must just be that either the VAG BEV offerings aren't as popular as they thought, or they overestimated how popular BEVs would be in general.
They have no problem shifting cars in the UK in any case.
VAG, and all the other mass market car makers are failing to sell enough cars to modernise the UK fleet.They have no problem shifting cars in the UK in any case.
Not just failing to turn the fleet electric, but also failing to replace Euro 4 and older cars in any reasonable time scale.
We have an ageing fleet of over 30 million cars, and the new cars we are adding are not matched by older cars being removed.
Cars generally are too expensive in relation to the earnings of the people who need them.
Modern cars are also not designed to have long enough economic lives to serve their later low-budget owners.
There is a huge gap in the market which VW and the other mainstream car makers are not serving.
They are like Triumph, Norton and BSA in the 60s, ripe to be humiliated by imports.
They only make cars they think they can sell.
TheRainMaker said:
Not with only two models and a single brand they won't, people like choice.
Tesla has done some amazing things, but the market share in the UK is still quite small at 2.75%
VW will move to BEV when they need to.
Tesla's aspirations are not just the UK. We are a relatively tiny market. VW has produced some EVs. At the moment they are being outsold by Tesla. Tesla has done some amazing things, but the market share in the UK is still quite small at 2.75%
VW will move to BEV when they need to.
Tesla Model 2 Hatchback will arrive in 2025. If current trends continue people will opt for the Tesla. I don't even like the way they look but it seems their offer is compelling for many people.
VAG will not disappear but it's good there is some competition for them to need to consider.
OutInTheShed said:
VAG, and all the other mass market car makers are failing to sell enough cars to modernise the UK fleet.
Not just failing to turn the fleet electric, but also failing to replace Euro 4 and older cars in any reasonable time scale.
We have an ageing fleet of over 30 million cars, and the new cars we are adding are not matched by older cars being removed.
Cars generally are too expensive in relation to the earnings of the people who need them.
Modern cars are also not designed to have long enough economic lives to serve their later low-budget owners.
There is a huge gap in the market which VW and the other mainstream car makers are not serving.
They are like Triumph, Norton and BSA in the 60s, ripe to be humiliated by imports.
In fact the whole of the old British motor manufacturing group BMC/BL was decimated by imports. It doesn't take many years. Not just failing to turn the fleet electric, but also failing to replace Euro 4 and older cars in any reasonable time scale.
We have an ageing fleet of over 30 million cars, and the new cars we are adding are not matched by older cars being removed.
Cars generally are too expensive in relation to the earnings of the people who need them.
Modern cars are also not designed to have long enough economic lives to serve their later low-budget owners.
There is a huge gap in the market which VW and the other mainstream car makers are not serving.
They are like Triumph, Norton and BSA in the 60s, ripe to be humiliated by imports.
Nomme de Plum said:
In fact the whole of the old British motor manufacturing group BMC/BL was decimated by imports. It doesn't take many years.
The automobile industry is massively different to then. You simply can't compare a s
te company like BMC/BL etc with any of today's car companies. All of them employ top people and although some companies are doing better than others, all the main ones have more than enough skills and resources to compete long term.Frimley111R said:
Nomme de Plum said:
In fact the whole of the old British motor manufacturing group BMC/BL was decimated by imports. It doesn't take many years.
The automobile industry is massively different to then. You simply can't compare a ste company like BMC/BL etc with any of today's car companies. All of them employ top people and although some companies are doing better than others, all the main ones have more than enough skills and resources to compete long term.Nomme de Plum said:
In fact the whole of the old British motor manufacturing group BMC/BL was decimated by imports. It doesn't take many years.
I was in the industry when the very first batch of Datsun 1200's arrived in the UK, and the launch was also at the height of the regular strikes at UK car plants. But the nail in the coffin for the UK car makers was the simple fact that the Datsuns were better cars all round when compared to such offerings as the Morris Marina, Morris 1100/1300 and of course the Hillman Imp.NMNeil said:
Nomme de Plum said:
In fact the whole of the old British motor manufacturing group BMC/BL was decimated by imports. It doesn't take many years.
I was in the industry when the very first batch of Datsun 1200's arrived in the UK, and the launch was also at the height of the regular strikes at UK car plants. But the nail in the coffin for the UK car makers was the simple fact that the Datsuns were better cars all round when compared to such offerings as the Morris Marina, Morris 1100/1300 and of course the Hillman Imp.My Mum had an Imp Californian. If i remember correctly it had a derivative of the Coventry Climax engine used by the fire brigade.
The really sad thing is the Mini and then Austin/Morris 1100 were technically good cars but zero investment and poor management led to a below par product.
I like that Tesla are disrupting the market even though I'm not particularly a fan.
Nomme de Plum said:
TheRainMaker said:
Frimley111R said:
TheRainMaker said:
Pointless stat though if you include all the vehicles VW sells here. They have no problem shifting cars in the UK in any case.
Tesla is growing its manufacturing capacity. The Model3/Y outsell most other EVs on the market. Currently they in a strong position. We are just 7 years away from the start of the mandated switch over in the UK and Europe more widely. Tesla will be in a very strong place to take a very significant portion of that market unless other European manufactures make their models more appealing.
If we're talking about EV only - Tesla were European No1 for a long time, until VAG took their crown, which they've now had for the last couple of years. As I understand it, Tesla have pulled closer to VAG this year with aggressive price cuts so that they're pretty much neck and neck at the minute.
You mention Tesla growing its manufacturing capacity. If we go back to the OP of this thread, so have VW, and they are now in a position of having too much capacity. Tesla are the same, with German factory underutilised - the extra sales growth just isn't coming in the numbers Tesla and VW expected.
IMO, one of the most compelling EV's for the UK right now is the EX30 from Volvo. Made in China with the credible and well regarded Volvo badge. If I was VW head of Europe, I would be more worried about that Volvo offering than Tesla, who seem to have little interest in product development, with far too much focus on the Cybertruck for North America.
I bought an ID3 in January. Its not bad but I would drop it for the new Volvo in a heartbeat. Its just a better overall packaged car (assuming it doesn't drive like a pig) Better than MG made in China, better than pretty much everything in that price area. In fact, its better than a Model 3, which is in a more expensive price bracket than a EX30.
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