VW to scale down production of evs

[TheRainMaker]

Nomme de Plum said:

TheRainMaker said:

Total waffle.

A car with a range of 150 miles with a reliable network would be totally fine for ANY journey within the UK.

I don't understand how this is the fault of the EV user, most would have no idea what the network is like until they try it, and this will always be after they have purchased the car.

I have found the charging network to be the most disappointing part of EV ownership.

When we rolled out mobile phones the infrastructure was well short of adequate back in the early 90s. Did it work for you back then? We just had to accept that coverage would take time.

You have an unrealistic expectation which does not align the general plan.

EVs have been on sale for 10+ years, with massive growth over the last 5 years.

How long do we have to wait?

[ashenfie]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Your 1901 motoring experiences are hardly relevant. Going back there were far more petrol stations even out in remote places. Never an issue.
Run out of petrol and its a walk buy petrol and a little green can and all sorted. I often fill up when the range guide say 0miles. It safe as I know there always be a station nearby.
I have to Agee that unless you have home charging or a work I would not recommend an ev.

[Merry]

TheRainMaker said:

EVs have been on sale for 10+ years, with massive growth over the last 5 years.

How long do we have to wait?

I had an EV in 2017. The difference between the infrastructure then and now is massive. Things have moved on very, very quickly.

If you think it hasn't you're not looking very hard.

[TheRainMaker]

Merry said:

TheRainMaker said:

EVs have been on sale for 10+ years, with massive growth over the last 5 years.

How long do we have to wait?

I had an EV in 2017. The difference between the infrastructure then and now is massive. Things have moved on very, very quickly.

If you think it hasn't you're not looking very hard.

Where did I say it hasn't moved on?

It is still very unreliable, though.

[Nomme de Plum]

TheRainMaker said:

EVs have been on sale for 10+ years, with massive growth over the last 5 years.

How long do we have to wait?

We have just 800K EVs out of a total car stock of over 33M so less than 2.5%.

The question is why you would expect the infrastructure to be here today and who do you think should pay for it?

[TheRainMaker]

Nomme de Plum said:

TheRainMaker said:

EVs have been on sale for 10+ years, with massive growth over the last 5 years.

How long do we have to wait?

We have just 800K EVs out of a total car stock of over 33M so less than 2.5%.

The question is why you would expect the infrastructure to be here today and who do you think should pay for it?

Now TBH, because if it's not, sales will stall even more than they are at the moment. People seem to come up with all sorts of arguments about why they shouldn't get an EV; IMO, this is the only real one which holds any water. At what point do you think the network should be reliable and up to the same standard and usability as ICE?

Who should pay for it? That is simply the user.

I would be quite happy to pay more if the network was 100% reliable.

[Nomme de Plum]

ashenfie said:

Your 1901 motoring experiences are hardly relevant. Going back there were far more petrol stations even out in remote places. Never an issue.
Run out of petrol and its a walk buy petrol and a little green can and all sorted. I often fill up when the range guide say 0miles. It safe as I know there always be a station nearby.
I have to Agee that unless you have home charging or a work I would not recommend an ev.

Not sure why you stated 1901 but the car owner then would have had to wait just 12 years until the first petrol pumps existed . A station came 6 years later.

[Glosphil]

I currently drive a 1.4TSi car. I regularly drive from Gloucestershire to Sheffield. With a bit of driving around total mileage will be around 350 miles. If I fill up at one of the 6 petrol stations between home & the M5 my car will have a range close to 500 miles; so no need to buy petrol until a few days after I have returned home.

With an EV I can't recharge at my daughter's house in Sheffield as her terrace house is seperated from the road by a front garden & a wide pavement. The nearest public chargers are approx a mile away & a nearby friend tells me are not available after 8pm & often out of order. So I would need to stop at a motorway services on the way home to recharge.

No problem using an EV for shorter journeys as we could easily have a charger at home as we have a double garage with power & our 2 cars can be parked side by side on the drive.

So short term we could keep my car & wife could have an EV we use for shorter journeys which would be, at the most, 50 miles there & back. However, even counting the trips we do together, the EV's annual milage would less than 5k - we often use both cars as we are going to different places. With the current high cost of EVs it is impossible to justify purchasing one when her current 4 year old car cost us £12k & does well over 40mpg despite many short trips. Unlike many on Pistonheads we can't purchase via a company or salary sacrifice.

Also my wife also hates changing her car - had the last car 11 years. Won't drive my car as, "It's too complicated" - DSG, Autohold & Electronic Handbrake are complicated!

As we are both in our mid-70s, & our annual mileage is dropping, we can probably continue to drive ICE cars until we give up driving.

[Nomme de Plum]

Glosphil said:

I currently drive a 1.4TSi car. I regularly drive from Gloucestershire to Sheffield. With a bit of driving around total mileage will be around 350 miles. If I fill up at one of the 6 petrol stations between home & the M5 my car will have a range close to 500 miles; so no need to buy petrol until a few days after I have returned home.

With an EV I can't recharge at my daughter's house in Sheffield as her terrace house is seperated from the road by a front garden & a wide pavement. The nearest public chargers are approx a mile away & a nearby friend tells me are not available after 8pm & often out of order. So I would need to stop at a motorway services on the way home to recharge.

No problem using an EV for shorter journeys as we could easily have a charger at home as we have a double garage with power & our 2 cars can be parked side by side on the drive.

So short term we could keep my car & wife could have an EV we use for shorter journeys which would be, at the most, 50 miles there & back. However, even counting the trips we do together, the EV's annual milage would less than 5k - we often use both cars as we are going to different places. With the current high cost of EVs it is impossible to justify purchasing one when her current 4 year old car cost us £12k & does well over 40mpg despite many short trips. Unlike many on Pistonheads we can't purchase via a company or salary sacrifice.

Also my wife also hates changing her car - had the last car 11 years. Won't drive my car as, "It's too complicated" - DSG, Autohold & Electronic Handbrake are complicated!

As we are both in our mid-70s, & our annual mileage is dropping, we can probably continue to drive ICE cars until we give up driving.

I see no reason why you should not carry on driving the cars you have if you are happy with them. All being well you should have at least another decade of motoring and should not feel guilty that you have not gone EV.

It's only new car purchases which are impacted post 2030/35.

At some point you may want to try one though. They are very compelling. The effortless acceleration and relative quietness is rather pleasant. They are also incredibly simple to drive with no gears to consider.

With regard to your daughter i think local authorities will need to get their act together to allow cross pavement ducts for safe cable connections.

Edited by Nomme de Plum on Saturday 8th July 11:17

[SpeckledJim]

Glosphil said:

I currently drive a 1.4TSi car. I regularly drive from Gloucestershire to Sheffield. With a bit of driving around total mileage will be around 350 miles. If I fill up at one of the 6 petrol stations between home & the M5 my car will have a range close to 500 miles; so no need to buy petrol until a few days after I have returned home.

With an EV I can't recharge at my daughter's house in Sheffield as her terrace house is seperated from the road by a front garden & a wide pavement. The nearest public chargers are approx a mile away & a nearby friend tells me are not available after 8pm & often out of order. So I would need to stop at a motorway services on the way home to recharge.

No problem using an EV for shorter journeys as we could easily have a charger at home as we have a double garage with power & our 2 cars can be parked side by side on the drive.

So short term we could keep my car & wife could have an EV we use for shorter journeys which would be, at the most, 50 miles there & back. However, even counting the trips we do together, the EV's annual milage would less than 5k - we often use both cars as we are going to different places. With the current high cost of EVs it is impossible to justify purchasing one when her current 4 year old car cost us £12k & does well over 40mpg despite many short trips. Unlike many on Pistonheads we can't purchase via a company or salary sacrifice.

Also my wife also hates changing her car - had the last car 11 years. Won't drive my car as, "It's too complicated" - DSG, Autohold & Electronic Handbrake are complicated!

As we are both in our mid-70s, & our annual mileage is dropping, we can probably continue to drive ICE cars until we give up driving.

You certainly can. Don't think any more about it. Stay as you are.

[Sheepshanks]

Nomme de Plum said:

Sheepshanks said:

Sure, and for people whose lives are very organised it’ll be fine. But life isn’t always like that and it’s going to require a degree of planning that’s unnecessary with an ICE car.

That's nonsense, even in an ICE you do a degree of planning unless you regularly top up your tank form a canister in your garage.

My point (about it being a bit of a faff if you have two EVs and one parking space) seemed to be taken up by people who may need to do ad-hoc transcontinental drives.

I was thinking more of everyday families who are going to have to think about what they expect to use their EV for over the next couple of days and then shuffle them around if it's the other one that needs charging.

It's a bit like "how much cash should you keep in the bank?" question - what's a reasonable reserve to keep in the car? Does it vary in hot / cold weather?

[Nomme de Plum]

Sheepshanks said:

My point (about it being a bit of a faff if you have two EVs and one parking space) seemed to be taken up by people who may need to do ad-hoc transcontinental drives.

I was thinking more of everyday families who are going to have to think about what they expect to use their EV for over the next couple of days and then shuffle them around if it's the other one that needs charging.

It's a bit like "how much cash should you keep in the bank?" question - what's a reasonable reserve to keep in the car? Does it vary in hot / cold weather?

I think given time it will become second nature like many processes for daily life. I find it fascination that quite a few of the youngsters I know mid 20 types out of uni and maybe just getting into the family thing have no interest in cars at all and just see them as necessary tool.

[OutInTheShed]

Sheepshanks said:

...
It's a bit like "how much cash should you keep in the bank?" question - what's a reasonable reserve to keep in the car? Does it vary in hot / cold weather?

A good analogy.
It's always comforting knowing you've got enough in the bank to cover what you want to do and a margin for cock-ups.

[GT9]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

So you are complaining because 2% of the cars of the road are currently unsuitable for 50% of the population….

We are decades away from 50% of cars being EVs. I think your problem is that you come from a generation of people who are hooked on instant gratification. Electrification is a collective effort, it’s not about individuals, some people will just have to wait it out before it suits them.

Also, I doubt your 50% number is based on any data, here is actual data regarding the proportion of distances covered each day in the UK.

99% are below 200 miles and 95% are below 100 miles…

For small cars it’s even more minuscule % that do more than these distances.

[SpeckledJim]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Given only about 15% of car purchasing events involve a new car, and there are precious few EVs in the used car parc, I think it's probably impossible that 50% of next car events could be EV even if people wanted it to be.

We're at the start of the process. Anyone who regularly needs en route charging is probably jumping the gun if they get one now.

There are still millions of people who do a moderate, predictable mileage in a new car, starting and finishing on a drive at home, who are much more 'ripe' for making the switch before anyone doing unpredictable long distances should be getting all anxious about whether it works for them yet.

[Nomme de Plum]

Car sales June 23 versus June 22


https://media.smmt.co.uk/june-2023-new-car-registr...

Relative to pure petrol engined cars the various EVs forms are increasing sales at a greater rate.

[Nomme de Plum]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I would say my criticism is that you are expecting a service to be much further advanced at a time when patently that is not feasible.

Now we can criticise the government for not spreading grants to subsidise the initial infrastructure but that does not come without complications quite apart from the rather parlous state of our economy. The market is not always the best place to leave such a major shift but that's is where we are.

A decade is nothing in then scheme of things. Sales of all EV types are increasing at a greater rate than pure petrol so at the moment even at a time of tight finances people are still buying new cars and EVs at ever increasing rates.

Notwithstanding what is your solution and how should it be funded?

[Nomme de Plum]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

There were 31,700 BEVs sold last month. Up 40% from the same month last year. IMO it was a mistake to remove the purchase subsidy so soon and the announcement of RFL on EVs very premature. At some point we need to move to some sort of road pricing.

If there its an issue it's because the government have been too hands off and unfortunately that's not going to change.

Furthermore I don't see a labour government doing any better. Way too timid and unambitious.

We currently do not have a serious grid issue. Peak demand however is an issue. Ultimately BEVs will help balance this out.

I'm not sure how the old petrol stations will fare but expect further rationalisation. All the infrastructure that previously supported creating and moving petrol will become largely redundant and capacity retuned to the grid.

The charge network providers committed to double charge points within a year. I'm not sure if they're delivering against that promise.

[TheRainMaker]

Nomme de Plum said:

Car sales June 23 versus June 22


https://media.smmt.co.uk/june-2023-new-car-registr...

Relative to pure petrol engined cars the various EVs forms are increasing sales at a greater rate.

Over the last four years, pure ICE as a percentage of registrations has been in a fairly major decline; this has been taken up mainly by Hybrid cars which have by far the largest growth.



BEV growth by a percentage of market share has stalled over the last 12 months, growing only 1.7% year to date over 2022.

[raspy]

Glosphil said:

I currently drive a 1.4TSi car. I regularly drive from Gloucestershire to Sheffield. With a bit of driving around total mileage will be around 350 miles. If I fill up at one of the 6 petrol stations between home & the M5 my car will have a range close to 500 miles; so no need to buy petrol until a few days after I have returned home.

With an EV I can't recharge at my daughter's house in Sheffield as her terrace house is seperated from the road by a front garden & a wide pavement. The nearest public chargers are approx a mile away & a nearby friend tells me are not available after 8pm & often out of order. So I would need to stop at a motorway services on the way home to recharge.

No problem using an EV for shorter journeys as we could easily have a charger at home as we have a double garage with power & our 2 cars can be parked side by side on the drive.

So short term we could keep my car & wife could have an EV we use for shorter journeys which would be, at the most, 50 miles there & back. However, even counting the trips we do together, the EV's annual milage would less than 5k - we often use both cars as we are going to different places. With the current high cost of EVs it is impossible to justify purchasing one when her current 4 year old car cost us £12k & does well over 40mpg despite many short trips. Unlike many on Pistonheads we can't purchase via a company or salary sacrifice.

Also my wife also hates changing her car - had the last car 11 years. Won't drive my car as, "It's too complicated" - DSG, Autohold & Electronic Handbrake are complicated!

As we are both in our mid-70s, & our annual mileage is dropping, we can probably continue to drive ICE cars until we give up driving.

You can pick up a 2 year old EV (top spec Hyundai Ioniq) with 13k miles for £15k today. Is that much more expensive than your 4 year old car?

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202307069...