Congestion charge exemption for EV's being removed
Discussion
James6112 said:
KingGary said:
Discombobulate said:
Quite happy to pay, but, like you, pleased with the free lunch while it lasted. As for the future, who knows? But the outlook for EVs in cities looks far brighter than it does for ICE.
Not according to the mayor of London. Congestion charge - takes up the same space, fair enough. Free for the next 18 months.
Ulez - EV will be at the bottom of the list, newer ICE cars will roll into Ulez
So- EV has a better outlook in cities, financially & pumping out less/negligible pollution at the point of use. So a benefit to residents.
A bright future.
At some point the financial benefits/incentives are bound to cease - although also ICE costs are likely to mildly increase in various ways over the same timeframe.
But 'if' for some reason all the benefits and incentives disappeared 'tomorrow', would I still want the EV...? Well, yes - I definitely would. 4 years of driving EV full time and the inherent benefits of the powertrain and convenience of use make would make it feel like a big step back to return to ICE at this point. I also was never motivated in the least by trying to help the environment, but now when I get a whiff of a load of ICE engines running on a busy street with crawling traffic, I do start to think 'we really don't need to be poisoning the residents of this street anymore do we!?' - Of course, I did my bit to poison town centres for over 20 years, and I never thought about it because I never imagined there would be a serious alternative! But now I know there is an altenrative, it's actually quite hard not to think about it from time to time!
Terminator X said:
Nomme de Plum said:
KingGary said:
Thank goodness, now we can put the whole EV thing behind us!
Don’t hold your breath. That path has already been made. China has gone from just under 8M in 2021 to over 13M in 2022 and were exporting circa 1M EVs but that’s also increasing at a similar rate.
If you are I. Fear of the EV think you can buy a nice new ICE right up until 2035 if there are any available at that time. You can run an older model for as long as you wish.
k all really.TX.
We bought a total of 1.9M cars last year and the Chinese 13M EVs alone. Who do you think the marketeeers will focus on?
James6112 said:
KingGary said:
Discombobulate said:
Quite happy to pay, but, like you, pleased with the free lunch while it lasted. As for the future, who knows? But the outlook for EVs in cities looks far brighter than it does for ICE.
Not according to the mayor of London. Congestion charge - takes up the same space, fair enough. Free for the next 18 months.
Ulez - EV will be at the bottom of the list, newer ICE cars will roll into Ulez
So- EV has a better outlook in cities, financially & pumping out less/negligible pollution at the point of use. So a benefit to residents.
A bright future.
Congestion charging is correctly being applied to EVs, like other cars. Oh, and my 23 year old, 4.0 Range Rover meets ULEZ standards so I don’t pay it either. Where’s the difference? So the answer is, buy a 14 mpg V8, it’s more interesting too
KingGary said:
Right!
Congestion charging is correctly being applied to EVs, like other cars. Oh, and my 23 year old, 4.0 Range Rover meets ULEZ standards so I don’t pay it either. Where’s the difference? So the answer is, buy a 14 mpg V8, it’s more interesting too
But most people don't want your Range Rover in their town, let alone a city, irrespective of the legislation. My guess is dirty, unnecessarily thirsty cars will eventually be legislated out of urban areas. And their drivers increasingly seen as pariahs. Congestion charging is correctly being applied to EVs, like other cars. Oh, and my 23 year old, 4.0 Range Rover meets ULEZ standards so I don’t pay it either. Where’s the difference? So the answer is, buy a 14 mpg V8, it’s more interesting too
However it is a free world so enjoy yours while you can. My skin isn't thick enough to drive a Range Rover around Piccadilly, but perhaps I should man up...
TheDeuce said:
I bet most EV drivers feel the same in terms of logic, even if it has been nice to have a free lunch for a while.
Yep. EV commuter here - I cause just as much congestion as the next man. As far as I am aware, the Congestion Charge was never about Polar Bears - it was about congestion.In my case there is no convenient public transport solution - the one that does exist is long-winded, expensive, filthy and unreliable. There is also no parking available at my local station (the usual 'build more houses, don't consider the infrastructure' morons in charge). So it's a case of having no alternatives other than driving in - and paying whatever is levied.
TheDeuce said:
I always think...
At some point the financial benefits/incentives are bound to cease - although also ICE costs are likely to mildly increase in various ways over the same timeframe.
But 'if' for some reason all the benefits and incentives disappeared 'tomorrow', would I still want the EV...? Well, yes - I definitely would. 4 years of driving EV full time and the inherent benefits of the powertrain and convenience of use make would make it feel like a big step back to return to ICE at this point. I also was never motivated in the least by trying to help the environment, but now when I get a whiff of a load of ICE engines running on a busy street with crawling traffic, I do start to think 'we really don't need to be poisoning the residents of this street anymore do we!?' - Of course, I did my bit to poison town centres for over 20 years, and I never thought about it because I never imagined there would be a serious alternative! But now I know there is an altenrative, it's actually quite hard not to think about it from time to time!
What are you doing here? You’re way too rational and considerate for PH.At some point the financial benefits/incentives are bound to cease - although also ICE costs are likely to mildly increase in various ways over the same timeframe.
But 'if' for some reason all the benefits and incentives disappeared 'tomorrow', would I still want the EV...? Well, yes - I definitely would. 4 years of driving EV full time and the inherent benefits of the powertrain and convenience of use make would make it feel like a big step back to return to ICE at this point. I also was never motivated in the least by trying to help the environment, but now when I get a whiff of a load of ICE engines running on a busy street with crawling traffic, I do start to think 'we really don't need to be poisoning the residents of this street anymore do we!?' - Of course, I did my bit to poison town centres for over 20 years, and I never thought about it because I never imagined there would be a serious alternative! But now I know there is an altenrative, it's actually quite hard not to think about it from time to time!
Discombobulate said:
KingGary said:
Right!
Congestion charging is correctly being applied to EVs, like other cars. Oh, and my 23 year old, 4.0 Range Rover meets ULEZ standards so I don’t pay it either. Where’s the difference? So the answer is, buy a 14 mpg V8, it’s more interesting too
But most people don't want your Range Rover in their town, let alone a city, irrespective of the legislation. My guess is dirty, unnecessarily thirsty cars will eventually be legislated out of urban areas. And their drivers increasingly seen as pariahs. Congestion charging is correctly being applied to EVs, like other cars. Oh, and my 23 year old, 4.0 Range Rover meets ULEZ standards so I don’t pay it either. Where’s the difference? So the answer is, buy a 14 mpg V8, it’s more interesting too
However it is a free world so enjoy yours while you can. My skin isn't thick enough to drive a Range Rover around Piccadilly, but perhaps I should man up...
I’d argue all cars are unnecessary in a place like London, which has a great public transport system. Likewise, I’m too self conscious to be seen driving a 4 wheeled chest freezer, which your average EV is perceived to be by some.
Besides, I don’t drive it into London, just pointing out that I can to illustrate how ridiculous the system is. At the end of it all, it will come down to money collected through taxes vs affordability by motorists vs commercial viability for manufacturers of EVs and charging infrastructure. It’s by no means a done deal.
Edited by KingGary on Wednesday 3rd July 10:49
Nomme de Plum said:
We bought a total of 1.9M cars last year and the Chinese 13M EVs alone. Who do you think the marketeeers will focus on?
And BYD has recently overtaken Tesla's sales figures.I reckon many people will be happy to buy electric once there are more cheaper models on the market, which essentially means Chinese. Unfortunately for consumers, Western markets are already talking about a punitive tariff of up to 100% on Chinese cars.
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlantic...
I am not sure of the logic there. I have taxi/bus/car/bike/train/subway options but many people don't. Many places you are far more limited and in some a car is consider vital. Your are never really in a position to give up your car and wait for someone to setup a bus service.
The next upset for EV drivers will be paying the equivalent of Fuel duty and VAT
The next upset for EV drivers will be paying the equivalent of Fuel duty and VAT
ashenfie said:
I am not sure of the logic there. I have taxi/bus/car/bike/train/subway options but many people don't. Many places you are far more limited and in some a car is consider vital. Your are never really in a position to give up your car and wait for someone to setup a bus service.
The next upset for EV drivers will be paying the equivalent of Fuel duty and VAT
I have none of the options you mention - a car is vital where I live.The next upset for EV drivers will be paying the equivalent of Fuel duty and VAT
I suspect road pricing is the only option to tax EV owners - which is bound to capture ICE drivers too. VED is coming soon though - although it's currently based on emissions, so that might need a rejig. The VED on my EV will be a higher price than my other half's ICE, based on, er, emissions?
ashenfie said:
I am not sure of the logic there. I have taxi/bus/car/bike/train/subway options but many people don't. Many places you are far more limited and in some a car is consider vital. Your are never really in a position to give up your car and wait for someone to setup a bus service.
The next upset for EV drivers will be paying the equivalent of Fuel duty and VAT
Sure some places you need a car, so you have to just pay whatever the cost is to run one. It's still a good thing that ancient dirty cars are going to become increasingly expensive to run pet mile.The next upset for EV drivers will be paying the equivalent of Fuel duty and VAT
When you say 'the next' upset for EV drivers, what was the last upset? We've had RFL, lux car tax and now congestion charge... But I haven't seen an upset at all. It's just predictable stuff happening.
If EV's cost the same as equivalent ICE cars they'd still be preferable for most people.
KingGary said:
I don’t know, it’s a lovely old thing and I get complements wherever I go on its condition and lovely V8 burble. It’s a classic and people like classic cars.
I’d argue all cars are unnecessary in a place like London, which has a great public transport system. Likewise, I’m too self conscious to be seen driving a 4 wheeled chest freezer, which your average EV is perceived to be by some.
Besides, I don’t drive it into London, just pointing out that I can to illustrate how ridiculous the system is. At the end of it all, it will come down to money collected through taxes vs affordability by motorists vs commercial viability for manufacturers of EVs and charging infrastructure. It’s by no means a done deal.
Of course it’s a done deal.I’d argue all cars are unnecessary in a place like London, which has a great public transport system. Likewise, I’m too self conscious to be seen driving a 4 wheeled chest freezer, which your average EV is perceived to be by some.
Besides, I don’t drive it into London, just pointing out that I can to illustrate how ridiculous the system is. At the end of it all, it will come down to money collected through taxes vs affordability by motorists vs commercial viability for manufacturers of EVs and charging infrastructure. It’s by no means a done deal.
Edited by KingGary on Wednesday 3rd July 10:49
The U.K. is not the centre of the Universe.
The ULEZ thing is just like the smoking ban. Much resistance for a while then suddenly people could enjoy a meal out or attending a concert or more importantly sit in an office without being subjected to a seriously unpleasant environment and going home feeling dirty and clothes that smelled of smoke.
TheDeuce said:
In fairness, if all the people that enjoy cheap motoring by running quarter century old st boxes found their vehicles priced off the road, they would be forced to start using public transport and public transport might get a lot better 
You must know nothing about the wealth and determination required to run a 25 year old Range Rover! We are the ones with options.t boxes found their vehicles priced off the road, they would be forced to start using public transport and public transport might get a lot better As new and shiny as newer EVs are, they’re rented by skin flints who shop at Lidl
Nomme de Plum said:
Of course it’s a done deal.
The U.K. is not the centre of the Universe.
The ULEZ thing is just like the smoking ban. Much resistance for a while then suddenly people could enjoy a meal out or attending a concert or more importantly sit in an office without being subjected to a seriously unpleasant environment and going home feeling dirty and clothes that smelled of smoke.
Where do you work, a bus depot? The U.K. is not the centre of the Universe.
The ULEZ thing is just like the smoking ban. Much resistance for a while then suddenly people could enjoy a meal out or attending a concert or more importantly sit in an office without being subjected to a seriously unpleasant environment and going home feeling dirty and clothes that smelled of smoke.
It’s simple logic - adoption of EVs needs to be subsidised in a free market, otherwise, all things being equal, nobody would be driving them. Smoking ban cost the taxpayer nothing, EVs on the other hand need billions in subsidies to even exist in a global economy where the consumer has no money. No different to countries rowing back on net zero in spite of the evidence that it’s going to hurt us later on.
KingGary said:
Nomme de Plum said:
Of course it’s a done deal.
The U.K. is not the centre of the Universe.
The ULEZ thing is just like the smoking ban. Much resistance for a while then suddenly people could enjoy a meal out or attending a concert or more importantly sit in an office without being subjected to a seriously unpleasant environment and going home feeling dirty and clothes that smelled of smoke.
Where do you work, a bus depot? The U.K. is not the centre of the Universe.
The ULEZ thing is just like the smoking ban. Much resistance for a while then suddenly people could enjoy a meal out or attending a concert or more importantly sit in an office without being subjected to a seriously unpleasant environment and going home feeling dirty and clothes that smelled of smoke.
It’s simple logic - adoption of EVs needs to be subsidised in a free market, otherwise, all things being equal, nobody would be driving them. Smoking ban cost the taxpayer nothing, EVs on the other hand need billions in subsidies to even exist in a global economy where the consumer has no money. No different to countries rowing back on net zero in spite of the evidence that it’s going to hurt us later on.
You conveniently forget the fossil fuel industry has had tax breaks for decades.
I have no tax break and no subsidy but I drive an EV because it is a pleasant environment in which to drive and amazingly cheap to run. Plenty of my friends are in exactly the same position.
We will see what our next government does with regard to decarbonisation and EV roll out.
EVs and pollution reduction in cities will see a positive impact to health both from reduced pollution and noise reduction which impacts many negatively. It will even benefit young children’s brain development which are susceptible to certain pollutants. Is that a bit too esoteric?
Even where I’m currently situated in the USA the move to EVs is happening.
If you are a dyed in the wold ICE guy and over 50 it doesn’t really need to impact you. But rest assured it is happening.
In 2035 there will be 15M EVs in the U.K. and a much more viable used market. In 2030 that number will be circa 7M.
KingGary said:
Where do you work, a bus depot?
It’s simple logic - adoption of EVs needs to be subsidised in a free market, otherwise, all things being equal, nobody would be driving them. Smoking ban cost the taxpayer nothing, EVs on the other hand need billions in subsidies to even exist in a global economy where the consumer has no money. No different to countries rowing back on net zero in spite of the evidence that it’s going to hurt us later on.
Not strictly true. The smoking ban started a progressive reduction in receipts from tobacco products as people drew away from them, and that income had to be replaced from other sources.It’s simple logic - adoption of EVs needs to be subsidised in a free market, otherwise, all things being equal, nobody would be driving them. Smoking ban cost the taxpayer nothing, EVs on the other hand need billions in subsidies to even exist in a global economy where the consumer has no money. No different to countries rowing back on net zero in spite of the evidence that it’s going to hurt us later on.
Pica-Pica said:
Not strictly true. The smoking ban started a progressive reduction in receipts from tobacco products as people drew away from them, and that income had to be replaced from other sources.
Which will lead to significant cost savings for the NHS as health outcomes improve for those smoking less. Another type of net zero Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff