Discussion
skinnyman said:
I appreciate it's difficult to justify the real world sub 150 miles range and slow charging, but the reason I'm looking at them is because I'll charge it from home 99.9% of the time, and range is almost irrelevant as it'll be a second car, my wife has a Tuscon that we'll do anything long distance in.
I'm currently driving her old 2008 Ford Cmax, and due to the salary sacrifice cars including insurance, electric Vs petrol, tax etc etc it means than the financial difference between driving £500s worth of knackered old Cmax, and a £42k Lexus, is £150/mth.
If buying cash then it's a poor value proposition against a Mach E, Skoda Enyaq etc, but via salary sacrifice it's in the same cost bracket as a 500e, Mini, and even the E-Up.
On that basis you should totally do it. Any EV as Vs taxed salary will save you a lot of money right now.. I'm currently driving her old 2008 Ford Cmax, and due to the salary sacrifice cars including insurance, electric Vs petrol, tax etc etc it means than the financial difference between driving £500s worth of knackered old Cmax, and a £42k Lexus, is £150/mth.
If buying cash then it's a poor value proposition against a Mach E, Skoda Enyaq etc, but via salary sacrifice it's in the same cost bracket as a 500e, Mini, and even the E-Up.
And despite it being a very poor EV compared to others, as people have said, it's still a Lexus which does have certain plus points.
swisstoni said:
I’ve got one, new in March 2021. I’ve never seen another on the road.
I checked a while back and there’s about 200 in the country.
Presumably down to supply issues.
Yep - they can't supply an EV that people want to buy I checked a while back and there’s about 200 in the country.
Presumably down to supply issues.
What's the betting most of those 200 are company cars and that the majority of those were initially heavily subsidised lease deals. Throwing 200 odd cars in to a territory via cheap lease deals is perfectly typical to 'get the cars on the road' which then hopefully drives organic sales. Look like in this case, it didn't play out.
TheDeuce said:
swisstoni said:
I’ve got one, new in March 2021. I’ve never seen another on the road.
I checked a while back and there’s about 200 in the country.
Presumably down to supply issues.
Yep - they can't supply an EV that people want to buy I checked a while back and there’s about 200 in the country.
Presumably down to supply issues.
What's the betting most of those 200 are company cars and that the majority of those were initially heavily subsidised lease deals. Throwing 200 odd cars in to a territory via cheap lease deals is perfectly typical to 'get the cars on the road' which then hopefully drives organic sales. Look like in this case, it didn't play out.
swisstoni said:
TheDeuce said:
swisstoni said:
I’ve got one, new in March 2021. I’ve never seen another on the road.
I checked a while back and there’s about 200 in the country.
Presumably down to supply issues.
Yep - they can't supply an EV that people want to buy I checked a while back and there’s about 200 in the country.
Presumably down to supply issues.
What's the betting most of those 200 are company cars and that the majority of those were initially heavily subsidised lease deals. Throwing 200 odd cars in to a territory via cheap lease deals is perfectly typical to 'get the cars on the road' which then hopefully drives organic sales. Look like in this case, it didn't play out.
Your car may not be leased - but as I said, I bet most are - or at least were.
Guess I'll have to go and test drive one. It's a strange situation, if I had £42k to spend on an EV it would be nowhere near my list, but when I look at what else £300/mth gets me it's actually at the top of my list.
It's list price (especially with the premium pack taking it to £45k) means it trails far behind pretty much anything else at the same price point, but it's monthly lease cost pits it against the bottom end of the hatchback ladder.
I was waiting on the Cupr Born, but initial enquiries suggest a cost of £450/mth for the midrange model, without options. A poor value proposition for a £35k car
It's list price (especially with the premium pack taking it to £45k) means it trails far behind pretty much anything else at the same price point, but it's monthly lease cost pits it against the bottom end of the hatchback ladder.
I was waiting on the Cupr Born, but initial enquiries suggest a cost of £450/mth for the midrange model, without options. A poor value proposition for a £35k car
SWoll said:
.
Then you notice the Lexus only has 200hp, Chademo charging a 50Kw battery (yet still weighs 2.3 tonnes) and 150 miles of usable range and wonder who is going to buy this in the UK?
For a company who led the way with hybrid vehicles it's a pretty pathetic attempt for 2020?
But Toyota/Lexus have been digging their heels in the full EV stakes for years, they have literally been dragged kicking and screaming (“self charging” they scream) into full EV now before loosing their market share altogether. And the first model….they completely cock up, does make you wonder what on Earth they are thinking?Then you notice the Lexus only has 200hp, Chademo charging a 50Kw battery (yet still weighs 2.3 tonnes) and 150 miles of usable range and wonder who is going to buy this in the UK?
For a company who led the way with hybrid vehicles it's a pretty pathetic attempt for 2020?
liner33 said:
They are thinking that EV is not the future and have decided to go in a different direction
Lexus is now 'committed' to EVs. Their bread and butter is the RX and NX, especially in the US. I suspect they can see sales crashing as every other 'premium' brand now have a decent EV in those areas.But Lexus is hardly a brand to rush innovation, luckily though most Lexus owners make even the most anti-EV brigade on here look like early adopters.
The current 'hot topic' of interest in Lexus owner groups is a change in the 10 years+ extended warranty clause. There is a strom brewing in a tea cup about claiming money back etc due a change in wording..........Lexus and extended warranty??!! I didn't bother with an extended warranty on our Tesla. Who on earth would waste money on a Lexus warranty???
So Lexus probably have enough time to get their EV out, however their customer base in the UK anyways reminds me of what Honda survived on for so many years. At some stage older people will stop buying cars (especially when the cars keep going for 10 years+ with no issues).
Lexus current has as much appeal to the younger generation as a damp squid, for the reaction to our Tesla vs Lexus at school pickup couldn't be more different. If Lexus wants to build up a new customer base, they better get a move on their EVs, and come out with a USP that's better than just being reliable. There isn't that many people who can get worked up/excited about 10 year extended warranties
.
Edited by gangzoom on Sunday 20th February 07:02
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2022/02/20220219-...
Toyota is investing heavily into hydrogen
https://www.toyota.co.uk/hydrogen/
"We are working toward achieving carbon neutrality by 2050. At the same time, ‘Motor’ is in our company name and we accordingly have a strong passion for and level of commitment to the internal combustion engine"
Toyota is investing heavily into hydrogen
https://www.toyota.co.uk/hydrogen/
"We are working toward achieving carbon neutrality by 2050. At the same time, ‘Motor’ is in our company name and we accordingly have a strong passion for and level of commitment to the internal combustion engine"
gangzoom said:
liner33 said:
They are thinking that EV is not the future and have decided to go in a different direction
Lexus is now 'committed' to EVs. Their bread and butter is the RX and NX, especially in the US. I suspect they can see sales crashing as every other 'premium' brand now have a decent EV in those areas.But Lexus is hardly a brand to rush innovation, luckily though most Lexus owners make even the most anti-EV brigade on here look like early adopters.
The current 'hot topic' of interest in Lexus owner groups is a change in the 10 years+ extended warranty clause. There is a strom brewing in a tea cup about claiming money back etc due a change in wording..........Lexus and extended warranty??!! I didn't bother with an extended warranty on our Tesla. Who on earth would waste money on a Lexus warranty???
So Lexus probably have enough time to get their EV out, however their customer base in the UK anyways reminds me of what Honda survived on for so many years. At some stage older people will stop buying cars (especially when the cars keep going for 10 years+ with no issues).
Lexus current has as much appeal to the younger generation as a damp squid, for the reaction to our Tesla vs Lexus at school pickup couldn't be more different. If Lexus wants to build up a new customer base, they better get a move on their EVs, and come out with a USP that's better than just being reliable. There isn't that many people who can get worked up/excited about 10 year extended warranties
.[Img]https://www.carscoops.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Lexus-EV-Lineup-main-1024x555.jpg[/thumb]
Edited by gangzoom on Sunday 20th February 07:02
1. Toyota/Lexus seem to be doing pretty well for themselves globally.
2. All squids are damp.
liner33 said:
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2022/02/20220219-...
Toyota is investing heavily into hydrogen
https://www.toyota.co.uk/hydrogen/
"We are working toward achieving carbon neutrality by 2050. At the same time, ‘Motor’ is in our company name and we accordingly have a strong passion for and level of commitment to the internal combustion engine"
Wow - there are "over 100" hydrogen filling stations in Europe.......as compared to rapid chargers up to something like 25,000 in the EU, plus 4,000 odd in the UK, and 3,300 in Norway, and not counting 22kW or less public ones.Toyota is investing heavily into hydrogen
https://www.toyota.co.uk/hydrogen/
"We are working toward achieving carbon neutrality by 2050. At the same time, ‘Motor’ is in our company name and we accordingly have a strong passion for and level of commitment to the internal combustion engine"
Infrastructure costs for Hydrogen significantly greater than charging stations.
"Are Hydrogen expensive to own?" - not answered of course, because the answer is "Yes", even compared to EVs, ICE and hybrids.
...and so little confidence in the up coming b4hfhyseufnswid that it's not even mentioned anywhere, on a page plastered in hybrids.
Toyota flogging the sad, decaying corpse of the three-legged horse that was Hydrogen for personal transport.
JonChalk said:
liner33 said:
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2022/02/20220219-...
Toyota is investing heavily into hydrogen
https://www.toyota.co.uk/hydrogen/
"We are working toward achieving carbon neutrality by 2050. At the same time, ‘Motor’ is in our company name and we accordingly have a strong passion for and level of commitment to the internal combustion engine"
Wow - there are "over 100" hydrogen filling stations in Europe.......as compared to rapid chargers up to something like 25,000 in the EU, plus 4,000 odd in the UK, and 3,300 in Norway, and not counting 22kW or less public ones.Toyota is investing heavily into hydrogen
https://www.toyota.co.uk/hydrogen/
"We are working toward achieving carbon neutrality by 2050. At the same time, ‘Motor’ is in our company name and we accordingly have a strong passion for and level of commitment to the internal combustion engine"
Infrastructure costs for Hydrogen significantly greater than charging stations.
"Are Hydrogen expensive to own?" - not answered of course, because the answer is "Yes", even compared to EVs, ICE and hybrids.
...and so little confidence in the up coming b4hfhyseufnswid that it's not even mentioned anywhere, on a page plastered in hybrids.
Toyota flogging the sad, decaying corpse of the three-legged horse that was Hydrogen for personal transport.
Hydrogen is far more wasteful of energy too. Even if the infrastructure did exist, the bottom line is that collecting hydrogen and getting in to the car uses way more electricity than just putting the electricity straight in to a battery in the car... And the electric distribution network already extends as far as each and every home, let alone public chargers.
I lazily assumed hydrogen was the answer years ago, but when you look at how most people charge and use their EV's, most people don't rely on a public infrastructure 99% of the time anyway... Hydrogen would force them to and I honestly believe people don't want to go back to taking the car somewhere to fill up. I certainly don't miss it!
skinnyman said:
Guess I'll have to go and test drive one. It's a strange situation, if I had £42k to spend on an EV it would be nowhere near my list, but when I look at what else £300/mth gets me it's actually at the top of my list.
It's list price (especially with the premium pack taking it to £45k) means it trails far behind pretty much anything else at the same price point, but it's monthly lease cost pits it against the bottom end of the hatchback ladder.
I was waiting on the Cupr Born, but initial enquiries suggest a cost of £450/mth for the midrange model, without options. A poor value proposition for a £35k car
Out of interest - where have you seen the £300 a month deal? I've never leased a car before but that could be tempting if I get on with how it drives. It's list price (especially with the premium pack taking it to £45k) means it trails far behind pretty much anything else at the same price point, but it's monthly lease cost pits it against the bottom end of the hatchback ladder.
I was waiting on the Cupr Born, but initial enquiries suggest a cost of £450/mth for the midrange model, without options. A poor value proposition for a £35k car
Snow and Rocks said:
Out of interest - where have you seen the £300 a month deal? I've never leased a car before but that could be tempting if I get on with how it drives.
Salary sacrifice scheme with my employer, so includes insurance, servicing, maintenance, tyres etc.Down to £290 now too
You can pick these for for less than £19k now.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202401225...
Very tempting as a little local runaround. Would only ever charge at home. And range not an issue.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202401225...
Very tempting as a little local runaround. Would only ever charge at home. And range not an issue.
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