Hybrid's - to plug or not to plug
Discussion
paralla said:
No, you don’t understand correctly. We get it, you don’t like PHEV’s. I gave up arguing with strangers on the internet years ago, have fun shouting at clouds, I’m out.
Edited to add: Using your metric of app reported figures my husbands hybrid CH-R does over 100mpg.
Your husband’s mild/full Toyota hybrid is massively efficient which is great. Edited to add: Using your metric of app reported figures my husbands hybrid CH-R does over 100mpg.
Edited by paralla on Monday 24th June 09:56
Phil. said:
If I understand correctly the only thing PHEV’s do better than a mild-hybrid or EV is to shift the tailpipe emissions somewhere else whilst on a short journey, because they produce tailpipe emissions on longer journeys?
In order to achieve this phenomenon PHEV’s lug massive batteries around all of the time making them less efficient than mild-hybrids and producing more tailpipe emissions than an EV.
As others have highlighted PHEV’s really only make financial sense if they are owned as a company car, and that’s only because of the current political taxation system which will change at some point.
As for my tractor, you might want to drive one because I can guarantee it’s engine is far quieter than your 4 pot Mazda petrol is when dragging your 2 tonne battery laden PHEV away from the peage
Edited to add that I managed over 50mpg on one part of a tour of Scotland last year and as I said 40mpg+ is normal on longer journeys for my tractor.
That's a fair old elevation drop from Glencoe (3635ft) to Fort William (692 ft). What was the return journey consumption?In order to achieve this phenomenon PHEV’s lug massive batteries around all of the time making them less efficient than mild-hybrids and producing more tailpipe emissions than an EV.
As others have highlighted PHEV’s really only make financial sense if they are owned as a company car, and that’s only because of the current political taxation system which will change at some point.
As for my tractor, you might want to drive one because I can guarantee it’s engine is far quieter than your 4 pot Mazda petrol is when dragging your 2 tonne battery laden PHEV away from the peage
Edited to add that I managed over 50mpg on one part of a tour of Scotland last year and as I said 40mpg+ is normal on longer journeys for my tractor.
Edited by Phil. on Monday 24th June 09:45
plfrench said:
That's a fair old elevation drop from Glencoe (3635ft) to Fort William (692 ft). What was the return journey consumption?
It was in holiday traffic too, stop/start traffic with the stop/start function switched off as I dislike it. We averaged more than 40mpg over the 1,000 mile trip from the West Midlands to Fort William to north of Inverness down to Keswick and then back to the West Midlands.
Phil. said:
paralla said:
Phil. said:
It does make me smile all this fawning over a PHEV when most mild-hybrids will perform similarly in terms of mpg without having to recharge on a longer journey.
My 2.5 tonne D350 FFRR would have completed the 14hr journey with one fill up and averaged over 40mpg, including the peage sprints.
Please remind me what PHEV’s do better than mild hybrids or EV’s?
You produce no tailpipe emissions and enjoy a very smooth, very quiet experience on short, local journeys unlike mild hybrids. My 2.5 tonne D350 FFRR would have completed the 14hr journey with one fill up and averaged over 40mpg, including the peage sprints.
Please remind me what PHEV’s do better than mild hybrids or EV’s?
You don’t have to suffer at the mercy of public chargers on long journeys like you do with an EV.
A D350 FFRR does an identical 5.8 Second 0-60 mpg as a PHEV CX-60 but it has a WLTP fuel economy of 34 - 34.8 mpg and sounds like a tractor. You are doing well to better the WLTP mpg. I’m glad you like your car.
Edit to add: I didn’t have to charge my PHEV on the longer journey.
Edited by paralla on Sunday 23 June 22:29
In order to achieve this phenomenon PHEV’s lug massive batteries around all of the time making them less efficient than mild-hybrids and producing more tailpipe emissions than an EV.
As others have highlighted PHEV’s really only make financial sense if they are owned as a company car, and that’s only because of the current political taxation system which will change at some point.
As for my tractor, you might want to drive one because I can guarantee it’s engine is far quieter than your 4 pot Mazda petrol is when dragging your 2 tonne battery laden PHEV away from the peage
Edited to add that I managed over 50mpg on one part of a tour of Scotland last year and as I said 40mpg+ is normal on longer journeys for my tractor.
Edited by Phil. on Monday 24th June 09:45
The PHEV is a whole 90kgs heavier than the non plug-in version.
I live in Scotland which has a very clean grid, so the ‘moving emissions elsewhere’ point in null
I do 90% of my driving on battery charged on a cheap overnight tariff, the rest I run on petrol.
Means I don’t have to deal with the unreliable charging public charging network which is now more expensive than petrol in most places.
Edited by Phunk on Monday 24th June 10:24
Phil. said:
If I understand correctly the only thing PHEV’s do better than a mild-hybrid or EV is to shift the tailpipe emissions somewhere else whilst on a short journey, because they produce tailpipe emissions on longer journeys?
In order to achieve this phenomenon PHEV’s lug massive batteries around all of the time making them less efficient than mild-hybrids and producing more tailpipe emissions than an EV.
As others have highlighted PHEV’s really only make financial sense if they are owned as a company car, and that’s only because of the current political taxation system which will change at some point.
As for my tractor, you might want to drive one because I can guarantee it’s engine is far quieter than your 4 pot Mazda petrol is when dragging your 2 tonne battery laden PHEV away from the peage
Edited to add that I managed over 50mpg on one part of a tour of Scotland last year and as I said 40mpg+ is normal on longer journeys for my tractor.
The battery in my XC40 PHEV weighs around 160kg.In order to achieve this phenomenon PHEV’s lug massive batteries around all of the time making them less efficient than mild-hybrids and producing more tailpipe emissions than an EV.
As others have highlighted PHEV’s really only make financial sense if they are owned as a company car, and that’s only because of the current political taxation system which will change at some point.
As for my tractor, you might want to drive one because I can guarantee it’s engine is far quieter than your 4 pot Mazda petrol is when dragging your 2 tonne battery laden PHEV away from the peage
Edited to add that I managed over 50mpg on one part of a tour of Scotland last year and as I said 40mpg+ is normal on longer journeys for my tractor.
Edited by Phil. on Monday 24th June 09:45
It probably saves a fair bit or weight over the 2 litre diesel version by using a lighter 3 cylinder petrol engine.
The heaviest XC40 (leaving aside the full BEV) weighs around 200kg more than the lightest. A lot of that weight will be from all the extra "toys" in the top trim levels, and the heavier 4 cylinder engines.
There really isn't that much of a weight penalty in the average plug-in.
Phil. said:
plfrench said:
That's a fair old elevation drop from Glencoe (3635ft) to Fort William (692 ft). What was the return journey consumption?
It was in holiday traffic too, stop/start traffic with the stop/start function switched off as I dislike it. We averaged more than 40mpg over the 1,000 mile trip from the West Midlands to Fort William to north of Inverness down to Keswick and then back to the West Midlands.
Auto Express managed 38.2mpg over 18800 miles in their long term D350.
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/land-rover/range-rov...
Edited by paralla on Monday 24th June 10:41
Phil. said:
It was in holiday traffic too, stop/start traffic with the stop/start function switched off as I dislike it.
We averaged more than 40mpg over the 1,000 mile trip from the West Midlands to Fort William to north of Inverness down to Keswick and then back to the West Midlands.
40mpg? Is that all? You must enjoy wasting money on fuel!We averaged more than 40mpg over the 1,000 mile trip from the West Midlands to Fort William to north of Inverness down to Keswick and then back to the West Midlands.
Phil. said:
As others have highlighted PHEV’s really only make financial sense if they are owned as a company car, and that’s only because of the current political taxation system which will change at some point.
Googling lease prices for the RAV4, the PHEV is for some reason slightly cheaper than the plain old hybrid. If your daily mileage is within the EV range of the thing, running it on electricity will be cheaper than running it on petrol. Why would you choose the more expensive option that can't do that?otolith said:
Googling lease prices for the RAV4, the PHEV is for some reason slightly cheaper than the plain old hybrid. If your daily mileage is within the EV range of the thing, running it on electricity will be cheaper than running it on petrol. Why would you choose the more expensive option that can't do that?
In that specific scenario the PHEV would appear to be the logical choice, but not otherwise. Plus in that scenario what would be the relative cost of an equivalent EV? 
This isn't a debate on what's better phev or EV. It's each to it's own because if you got a phev there's clear benefits such as if you run out of juice you just fill up and go, in a matter of minutes. With an EV it's generally cheaper to run most of the time.
What I were asking really were the differences and benefits of hybrids.
After talking to the gf, she's still not really sold on the idea of plugging anything in even though I've explained the difference.
My plan were to get her into a plug-in then eventually smooth her into an EV once she's ready.
For how little she actually drives mileage wise, the cost of general fuel or electricity is negligible really. She just needs a newish car really as her 2009 is really starting to age now. Mechanically its fine, it's the cosmetics and lack of any sort of infotainment system.
I'm still going to try push her into plug-in and we'll look to get either an outdoor 3 pin or proper charger.
What I were asking really were the differences and benefits of hybrids.
After talking to the gf, she's still not really sold on the idea of plugging anything in even though I've explained the difference.
My plan were to get her into a plug-in then eventually smooth her into an EV once she's ready.
For how little she actually drives mileage wise, the cost of general fuel or electricity is negligible really. She just needs a newish car really as her 2009 is really starting to age now. Mechanically its fine, it's the cosmetics and lack of any sort of infotainment system.
I'm still going to try push her into plug-in and we'll look to get either an outdoor 3 pin or proper charger.
Phil. said:
The PHEV above only managed 40mpg over a long run through France, so in your book they must enjoy wasting their money on fuel too!
40mpg on petrol is of course cheaper than 40mpg on diesel (in the UK at least) and even cheaper than a full EV doing public charging.The difference is if most use for the PHEV is short journeys, school runs, commutes etc then it can run purely on electric, which if using home charging is maybe 20% of the cost of 40mpg.
It's almost like different powertrain options suit different people.
We have a PHEV and an EV. A diesel would be terrible for us due to our usage profile (would almost certainly kill the DPF). Diesel is however the best option for some people.
I switched to a plug in hybrid a couple of months ago (BMW 330e) and it all depends on the nature of driving you do as to whether it's worthwhile. Typically my commute to work is about 17 miles so I can get here just on electric, charge at work all day then get home on electric. I'm on the Octopus Intelligent EV tariff so it's costing about £1.50 - £2.50 per night to charge.
All good, but if I need to go on a longer journey during the day you're basically just driving a 2.0 turbo petrol so 45mpg at best with a steady throttle on a motorway.
All good, but if I need to go on a longer journey during the day you're basically just driving a 2.0 turbo petrol so 45mpg at best with a steady throttle on a motorway.
Ankh87 said:
What I were asking really were the differences and benefits of hybrids.
After talking to the gf, she's still not really sold on the idea of plugging anything in even though I've explained the difference.
My plan were to get her into a plug-in then eventually smooth her into an EV once she's ready.
Honestly, the effort to plug a tethered cable (I wouldn't suggest anyone gets a cable out of their boot every day) in is really, really over exaggerated by those that haven't done it.After talking to the gf, she's still not really sold on the idea of plugging anything in even though I've explained the difference.
My plan were to get her into a plug-in then eventually smooth her into an EV once she's ready.
In a circa 10kWh PHEV she'd have reasonable range and wouldn't be hugely at a loss on petrol. And if she found petrol running expensive then she'd soon plug in!
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