VW to scale down production of evs
Discussion
Frimley111R said:
TheDeuce said:
Frimley111R said:
Nomme de Plum said:
coetzeeh said:
Nomme de Plum said:
For a newish company I'd say that's pretty spectacular.
True, however Tesla margin was 29% two years ago. Year after year there have been predictions on PH of Tesla's demise yet they are still here and doing more than OK.
Other traditional car manufacturers are playing catch up and when 2030/35 arrives unless they up their game they will really struggle.
Maybe Chinese car manufactures will pose a bigger threat.
Nomme de Plum said:
I believe Tesco has been in business about a century. Tesla 20 years.
Year after year there have been predictions on PH of Tesla's demise yet they are still here and doing more than OK.
Other traditional car manufacturers are playing catch up and when 2030/35 arrives unless they up their game they will really struggle.
Maybe Chinese car manufactures will pose a bigger threat.
So much of what we buy in the west is produced in the far east. There is no reason to think cars should be immune from going the same direction before long - I think we can already see the tip of the iceberg tbh. When the Chinese can sell a brand new EV for £25k and virtually all reviewers say 'it's really good, actually', the western manufacturers clearly have a rocky future looming.Year after year there have been predictions on PH of Tesla's demise yet they are still here and doing more than OK.
Other traditional car manufacturers are playing catch up and when 2030/35 arrives unless they up their game they will really struggle.
Maybe Chinese car manufactures will pose a bigger threat.
It's our own fault. We chose high levels of human and worker rights but want to buy the same stuff at a price we like. The upshot of that is that the manufacturing business gets shunted to parts of the world where labour is far cheaper and the average worker has a lower level of rights/protection/pay.
I'm not saying we shouldn't have made the decisions we have made about rights and quality of life etc - but we made them and there are always costs for such luxuries. When I say luxury, I am comparing to the majority of people on the planet that don't enjoy the same high standards.
Pica-Pica said:
ruggedscotty said:
Stop the ICE sales. and you ill get folks buying evs.....
I think people will probably hold on to their ICEs for longer, it won’t immediately increase EV sales.I can see many holding onto to their ICE vehicles as long as they can.
Vipers said:
Pica-Pica said:
ruggedscotty said:
Stop the ICE sales. and you ill get folks buying evs.....
I think people will probably hold on to their ICEs for longer, it won’t immediately increase EV sales.I can see many holding onto to their ICE vehicles as long as they can.
Granted, as EV's become cheaper used ICE cars will likely become cheaper still - but then EV is cheaper to run and that's bound to remain the case at least until the scales tip as the powers that be really do want ICE cars off the roads in the medium-long term.
I seriously doubt that prices will remain high enough to lock the average person looking to buy a new/2nd/3rd hand EV out of the market after a few more years.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
You and I are relatively early adopters - arguably anyone who has an EV today is in that bracket as the cars are still thin on the ground with regard to setting up a fast and competitive used market.Another few years and the market will be flooded with 5-10 year old EV's and there is no shortage of evidence that the cars at that age are perfectly useable still, they will be seen as good used car options - once public confidence catches up with reality...
It's only a matter of time.
The ULEZ expansion and introduction in major cities will shake up the future buying decisions of a significant number of drivers too.
As long as it is an incredibly inconvenient proposition to run an electric vehicle for most of the population, no place to charge it, range anxiety, why would anyone buy a bad one? If it becomes the norm and you can pretty much run one anywhere, then price will dictate a huge market for cheaper if inferior vehicles which is where VW comes into its own as pretty good as a second class consumer vehicle. That day is not today or tomorrow so why should VW abandon their current franchise for a similar but new one that does not yet exist?Today, personally, I would only buy an electric car under duress and would insist on alleviating my pain by buying a really good one that at least performs beautifully where I can use it and partially if not entirely offsets the inconvenience. When the time comes that all EVs are easy to keep charged and get you distances without angst, the technologies will be available and reliable and VW can adopt them and perhaps rise as the mid low point supplier of EVs, similar to the niche it enjoys in regular cars today. (Sorry, I cannot bring myself to call a regular petrol engine powered car an ICE... it is a car.). Their pause seems sensible. Why should a mass market producer of mid level cars aspire to be the leader in EV technology? Makes no sense.
l354uge said:
Bayley2016 said:
I’ll keep my ice as long as I can get fuel for it. In the UK the infrastructure is simply miles away from being ready for electric vehicles . Add in range phobia, disposal of the old batteries and the awful process for getting the raw materials for the batteries and the green argument starts to wobble. I think and hope that alternative fuels for ice vehicles will be the enduring answer. I’ve tried electric vehicles and they are glorified milk floats not for me thanks ??
This almost reads like a copy and paste from a Facebook comment
LP Shapiro said:
As long as it is an incredibly inconvenient proposition to run an electric vehicle for most of the population, no place to charge it, range anxiety, why would anyone buy a bad one? If it becomes the norm and you can pretty much run one anywhere, then price will dictate a huge market for cheaper if inferior vehicles which is where VW comes into its own as pretty good as a second class consumer vehicle. That day is not today or tomorrow so why should VW abandon their current franchise for a similar but new one that does not yet exist?Today, personally, I would only buy an electric car under duress and would insist on alleviating my pain by buying a really good one that at least performs beautifully where I can use it and partially if not entirely offsets the inconvenience. When the time comes that all EVs are easy to keep charged and get you distances without angst, the technologies will be available and reliable and VW can adopt them and perhaps rise as the mid low point supplier of EVs, similar to the niche it enjoys in regular cars today. (Sorry, I cannot bring myself to call a regular petrol engine powered car an ICE... it is a car.). Their pause seems sensible. Why should a mass market producer of mid level cars aspire to be the leader in EV technology? Makes no sense.
Flawed Pov. At least 65% of homes can have home charging installed which covers most drivers charging needs.Factor in that a significant number of homes where home charging isn't possible (flats, terraced houses) often can't afford or choose not to have a car in any case, and you end up with far higher % of those that actually can or want to have a car being able to charge it at home.
Then add in legislation and guidance to local councils to add more street level charging in areas that have a high density of homes that can't fit their own...
So really no problems with potential customer base. But there is a problem with VW's offering as it doesn't appeal in terms of price, tech, kit or driver satisfaction vs cheaper eastern cars that get better reviews these days.
The Chinese make the ultimate people's EV's right now, today. The 'peoples car' company (VW) have been out peopled.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Unable or unwilling? Given its upwards of 4 figures to get a home charger installed now I would suspect some have weighed it up and decided it isn't worth it.
They may have provision to charge elsewhere, such as at work too, I have a charger at home but I've only used it for my EV twice in the last 6 months as all my charging gets done at work. It's mainly used for my wife's PHEV - but to be fair that could be done from a granny charger.
Luckily our charger was free when we bought a Leaf donkeys ago, but with that sort of usage I'd be thinking twice about the outlay of fitting one now.
Sheepshanks said:
I agree and even those with one convenient parking space - so that’s most of the houses on the new estate in our village, for example - are going to struggle when they’re a two EV family.
That's assumes they will both need charging daily. For most this won't be the case. Merry said:
Sheepshanks said:
I agree and even those with one convenient parking space - so that’s most of the houses on the new estate in our village, for example - are going to struggle when they’re a two EV family.
That's assumes they will both need charging daily. For most this won't be the case. Sheepshanks said:
Sure, and for people whose lives are very organised it’ll be fine. But life isn’t always like that and it’s going to require a degree of planning that’s unnecessary with an ICE car.
If you aren't both doing 200+ miles per day, every day, the level of planning will be miniscule.
Edited by SWoll on Friday 7th July 08:15
Merry said:
Sheepshanks said:
I agree and even those with one convenient parking space - so that’s most of the houses on the new estate in our village, for example - are going to struggle when they’re a two EV family.
That's assumes they will both need charging daily. For most this won't be the case. We have already upgraded the cables and consumer unit in the garage to have the capacity for two external chargers and an internal one in the garage.
The only thing missing is the chargers
we don't need them just yet, and there will probably be better ones out by the time we do.When we finally go fully electric, we will also get a new connection from the grid to power the garage.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I note it says they do not have a charge point not that they cannot have one so surely the inference is they do not need one. "44% of the EV drivers in our survey this year said they do not have a charge point installed at home - up 11% from last year."
It is unclear if a 13amp connection is called a charge point. I would assume not.
Merry said:
TheRainMaker said:
It will still be a pain in the ass having to move cars around, remembering who needs to park where etc.
It's only the same amount of faff as you'd have parking on any 2 car/single width driveway.As 1st World problems go it's right up there.
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