Hybrid's - to plug or not to plug

[paralla]

I'm glad we've been able to be super helpfull for the OP and have cleared everything up for him.

[clockworks]

Phil. said:

Unlike the success Ford is having focussed almost solely on EV’s?

Toyota are presently the Nigel Farage of car companies in their views but are lead by true car enthusiasts with a heritage of success. Will be interesting to see if they’ve bet on the right direction of power trains in a few years time.

I thought Ford only currently had one BEV passenger car - Mustang - and the Kuga plug-in hybrid? Couple of electric commercials maybe?

They are planning more pure electrics, but isn't their current bad position due to dropping ICE models before the electric equivalents are ready?

Toyota's lack of BEV choice must be harming European sales. Maybe they are quietly admitting that they can't compete with the Chinese, and will either just sell to Africa and the climate deniers in America, or stick Toyota badges on Chinese cars?

[Evanivitch]

Phil. said:

I find it ironic that you appear comfortable offshoring CO2 emissions to facilitate your use of EV’s in the UK and at the same time are more concerned about local emissions. Surely it’s the global emissions impact that you should be concerned about?

Well firstly my use of an EV reduces overalls emissions compared to ICE. Secondly, my car and batteries are South Korean, which whilst higher than the UK has a grid intensity lower than China. The choice of UK and EU cars and batteries in my budget were slim.

Phil. said:

I reiterate that the % carbon footprint of the UK is negligible globally.

Repeating yourself doesn't make it a fact. UK consumer is 1.5% of global CO2e emissions.

With a population less than 70 million that's quite absurd.

Phil. said:

Individually in the UK we are so insignificant in our emissions footprint that we are wasting our time changing anything as it will have zero impact globally. Buying EV’s in the UK makes zero difference globally either. That’s if you believe that CO2 is the enemy.

Park your ICE in garage. Close door. Turn engine on. Report back. It's not all about CO2e emissions, and I've been clear on that.

[Phil.]

paralla said:

I'm glad we've been able to be super helpfull for the OP and have cleared everything up for him.

I think you have been super helpful to the OP sharing your knowledge of hybrids and I’ve learned few things

But the thread has taken the direction of most EV/CO2 emissions threads which go on forever as the two sides argue their extreme beliefs are true.

I look forward to seeing how the Toyota hybrid strategy evolves and whether it’s a success for them over the coming years.

[Jimjimhim]

Presumably you don't all go on foreign holidays?

[Ankh87]

Phil. said:

paralla said:

I'm glad we've been able to be super helpfull for the OP and have cleared everything up for him.

I think you have been super helpful to the OP sharing your knowledge of hybrids and I’ve learned few things

But the thread has taken the direction of most EV/CO2 emissions threads which go on forever as the two sides argue their extreme beliefs are true.

I look forward to seeing how the Toyota hybrid strategy evolves and whether it’s a success for them over the coming years.

I've pretty much understood now the options. Still aren't sure exactly which would be best or which the better half would want. Would only know on a car by car basis really. There's no point on hybrid if say it only uses the EV up to like 10mph. That seems pointless to me and just means there's not really going to be any cost benefit.

[Phil.]

Just came across this Telegraph article today:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/06/20/el...

‘’Official figures show that sales for new EVs fell by 30pc in Germany last month, which led to a broader fall of 12.5pc across the Continent.’’

‘’the European Automobile Manufacturers Association on Thursday revealed that the year-on-year market share of fully electric cars fell from 13.8pc to 12.5pc in May.’’

Most interestingly for this thread:

‘’the market share of hybrid EVs increased from 25pc to 29.9pc’’

[clockworks]

Ankh87 said:

I've pretty much understood now the options. Still aren't sure exactly which would be best or which the better half would want. Would only know on a car by car basis really. There's no point on hybrid if say it only uses the EV up to like 10mph. That seems pointless to me and just means there's not really going to be any cost benefit.

I'm pretty sure that most (if not all) plug-in hybrids will drive at least as fast as the legal limit purely on the battery - as long as actually charge it with the plug.
Once the range is down to zero, it will do slow traffic on the battery, maybe a bit faster after a period of regen braking.

That's how my XC40 plug-in does it - easily does 80mph on the battery, no problem with hills, easily keeps up with normal traffic away from junctions.

Apart from the reduced range, and the lower power, it drives exactly like a full BEV.
If I want to accelerate faster or drive further, the ICE fires up, seamlessly.

Mild and non-plug-in "normal" hybrids are a different matter, more about improving mpg over a basic ICE.

Maybe you should be looking at suitable car models, then deciding which powertrain to go for, rather than picking a powertrain then finding a car that uses it?

[plfrench]

Phil. said:

Just came across this Telegraph article today:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/06/20/el...

‘’Official figures show that sales for new EVs fell by 30pc in Germany last month, which led to a broader fall of 12.5pc across the Continent.’’

‘’the European Automobile Manufacturers Association on Thursday revealed that the year-on-year market share of fully electric cars fell from 13.8pc to 12.5pc in May.’’

Most interestingly for this thread:

‘’the market share of hybrid EVs increased from 25pc to 29.9pc’’

So why are Toyota doing so badly in the UK this year?

2023 Sales May YTD = 46,604
2024 Sales May YTD = 40,049
2024 Sales May YTD if matching overall market growth of +7.13% = 49,926

So, they're nearly 10k sales down compared to where they should be based on last year's performance. A significant drop.

[Phil.]

plfrench said:

So why are Toyota doing so badly in the UK this year?

2023 Sales May YTD = 46,604
2024 Sales May YTD = 40,049
2024 Sales May YTD if matching overall market growth of +7.13% = 49,926

So, they're nearly 10k sales down compared to where they should be based on last year's performance. A significant drop.

The article is based on the EU not the UK.

Edited to add that Toyota sold more than 11m cars in 2023 and if the UK accounts for less than 50k then Toyota are not going to base their hybrid strategy on UK sales potential!

Edited by Phil. on Thursday 20th June 15:09

[paralla]

Ankh87 said:

Phil. said:

paralla said:

I'm glad we've been able to be super helpfull for the OP and have cleared everything up for him.

I think you have been super helpful to the OP sharing your knowledge of hybrids and I’ve learned few things

But the thread has taken the direction of most EV/CO2 emissions threads which go on forever as the two sides argue their extreme beliefs are true.

I look forward to seeing how the Toyota hybrid strategy evolves and whether it’s a success for them over the coming years.

I've pretty much understood now the options. Still aren't sure exactly which would be best or which the better half would want. Would only know on a car by car basis really. There's no point on hybrid if say it only uses the EV up to like 10mph. That seems pointless to me and just means there's not really going to be any cost benefit.

A 1.5TSI Petrol VW T-Roc has 150bhp, is rated at 47.1mpg combined and will do 40mpg in the real World.
A 2.0 Hybrid Toyota CH-R has 181bhp is rated at 54mpg combined and will do 54mpg in the real World.

You put petrol in both, you put less in the hybrid Toyota to go the same distance as the non hybrid VW. That's the poiont.

[Phil.]

Ankh87 said:

I've pretty much understood now the options. Still aren't sure exactly which would be best or which the better half would want. Would only know on a car by car basis really. There's no point on hybrid if say it only uses the EV up to like 10mph. That seems pointless to me and just means there's not really going to be any cost benefit.

Ankh87 said:

She's after one of those Toyota CHR things. Not a huge fan myself but for her I don't actually care. With the Toyota there isn't anything to plug-in which is better as she can't forget. So I'm thinking might be a better option than say a Mini Countryman Plug-in.

She’s told you what she wants, hassle free economical motoring, and you’re ignoring her.

[Ankh87]

Phil. said:

Ankh87 said:

I've pretty much understood now the options. Still aren't sure exactly which would be best or which the better half would want. Would only know on a car by car basis really. There's no point on hybrid if say it only uses the EV up to like 10mph. That seems pointless to me and just means there's not really going to be any cost benefit.

Ankh87 said:

She's after one of those Toyota CHR things. Not a huge fan myself but for her I don't actually care. With the Toyota there isn't anything to plug-in which is better as she can't forget. So I'm thinking might be a better option than say a Mini Countryman Plug-in.

She’s told you what she wants, hassle free economical motoring, and you’re ignoring her.

Her mind changes all the time. She likes the Juke Nismo RS but until I pointed out it's not hybrid she wasn't bothered. So I'm more thinking she's into the fact of hybrid than the car itself.

[Evanivitch]

Phil. said:

But the thread has taken the direction of most EV/CO2 emissions threads which go on forever as the two sides argue their extreme beliefs are true.

Phil. said:

Just came across this Telegraph article today:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/06/20/el...

‘’Official figures show that sales for new EVs fell by 30pc in Germany last month, which led to a broader fall of 12.5pc across the Continent.’’

‘’the European Automobile Manufacturers Association on Thursday revealed that the year-on-year market share of fully electric cars fell from 13.8pc to 12.5pc in May.’’

Most interestingly for this thread:

‘’the market share of hybrid EVs increased from 25pc to 29.9pc’’

[Evanivitch]

Ankh87 said:

I've pretty much understood now the options. Still aren't sure exactly which would be best or which the better half would want. Would only know on a car by car basis really. There's no point on hybrid if say it only uses the EV up to like 10mph. That seems pointless to me and just means there's not really going to be any cost benefit.

If you can run a decent PHEV in electric the majority of the time (I.e. it has sufficient range AND power) then it's a much better experience than a hybrid.

An Ampera for example running on electric is more responsive and less harsh on electric, but a pain when the generator has to be used.

The ioniq hybrid we have is a good car, but when you realise it's a DCT searching for the right gear, hesitant down shifts or just generally more harsh. It's a bit of a crap game eeking out the "EV" range in urban traffic or when coasting on motorway.

[Phil.]

Evanivitch said:

Phil. said:

But the thread has taken the direction of most EV/CO2 emissions threads which go on forever as the two sides argue their extreme beliefs are true.

Phil. said:

Just came across this Telegraph article today:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/06/20/el...

‘’Official figures show that sales for new EVs fell by 30pc in Germany last month, which led to a broader fall of 12.5pc across the Continent.’’

‘’the European Automobile Manufacturers Association on Thursday revealed that the year-on-year market share of fully electric cars fell from 13.8pc to 12.5pc in May.’’

Most interestingly for this thread:

‘’the market share of hybrid EVs increased from 25pc to 29.9pc’’

Why post this?

The Telegraph article (which I doubt you read) was directly related to the discussion here about hybrids and PHEV/EV’s.

I didn’t respond to your previous post because it was thread slip and full of your usual BS EV promoting arguments such as ‘it must be correct because the government says so’. I can’t respond to such ignorance after what has happened over the past few years. Do you really believe everything the government says is correct or is it selective reasoning when it meets with your EV positive beliefs, which you will never change or debate reasonably? Give it a rest.

[Phil.]

Evanivitch said:

If you can run a decent PHEV in electric the majority of the time (I.e. it has sufficient range AND power) then it's a much better experience than a hybrid.

An Ampera for example running on electric is more responsive and less harsh on electric, but a pain when the generator has to be used.

The ioniq hybrid we have is a good car, but when you realise it's a DCT searching for the right gear, hesitant down shifts or just generally more harsh. It's a bit of a crap game eeking out the "EV" range in urban traffic or when coasting on motorway.

Have you not read the OP’s requirements? He and his missies don’t want the hassle of a plugin especially as they’ll be using a 13amp plug through the letter box probably at peak electric prices!

Not every answer to, which car should I buy, has to end in buy and EV’ because I like them.

[Evanivitch]

Phil. said:

Why post this?

The Telegraph article (which I doubt you read) was directly related to the discussion here about hybrids and PHEV/EV’s.

[Evanivitch]

Phil. said:

Have you not read the OP’s requirements? He and his missies don’t want the hassle of a plugin especially as they’ll be using a 13amp plug through the letter box probably at peak electric prices!
.

To which the obvious answer to everyone but yourself was an outside socket...

[Phil.]

Evanivitch said:

Phil. said:

Why post this?

The Telegraph article (which I doubt you read) was directly related to the discussion here about hybrids and PHEV/EV’s.

Feel free to respond to this too!

I didn’t respond to your previous post because it was thread slip and full of your usual BS EV promoting arguments such as ‘it must be correct because the government says so’. I can’t respond to such ignorance after what has happened over the past few years. Do you really believe everything the government says is correct or is it selective reasoning when it meets with your EV positive beliefs, which you will never change or debate reasonably?

Or just give it a rest because there is nothing funny about your posting.