VW to scale down production of evs

[TheDeuce]

TheRainMaker said:

Nomme de Plum said:

TheRainMaker said:

Nomme de Plum said:

Tesla reduced their prices and have just reported record sales of nearly 470K deliveries in the last quarter.

And will be doing the same again as they have 32000 undelivered cars to shift.

It would be great if they did but Model Y sales 1st quarter 2023 top BEV sales in Europe at 71.6K and Model 3 at 19.6K

Which is superb, but they still have an oversupply of 32000 which need to go.

It's like they need to dial back production

Or they could just keep selling them with larger and larger discounts damaging residuals for current owners.

Obviously annoying for existing owners but I think Tesla need to reduce the prices and accept the margin on each car will be a lot less.

The big buzz around the launch of the model 3 & Y was the fact there were finally Tesla's that everyone could afford. The problem is that now the Chinese are showing Tesla their idea of a well equipped, affordable EV and theirs is a lot cheaper.

[Nomme de Plum]

TheRainMaker said:

Which is superb, but they still have an oversupply of 32000 which need to go.

It's like they need to dial back production

Or they could just keep selling them with larger and larger discounts damaging residuals for current owners.

There shares are up so investors seem relatively unconcerned.

It could be that in the USA they have a tracking issue for their inventory or shift in model popularity.

I'm not a lover of their inofencive designs but as in America buyers seem to be happy with some of the ugliest cars on the planet maybe they don't see it as an issue.

[Nomme de Plum]

TheDeuce said:

They are cutting the prices still, heavily - just not the headline RRP.

They're pushing stock into the lease market at crazy low prices. If you're a company car driver you can now get a rwd model y for about £300+vat a month.

Needless to say, that's proving quite popular! I alone know two people who have taken advantage.

Bit of a shame for those of us that cannot access that benefit and pay cash or maybe a straighforward loan for our cars.

[Sheepshanks]

Nomme de Plum said:

Bit of a shame for those of us that cannot access that benefit and pay cash or maybe a straighforward loan for our cars.

Presumably used ones will cost buttons when they all come off lease and private buyers are still reticent.

[TheRainMaker]

TheDeuce said:

They're pushing stock into the lease market at crazy low prices. If you're a company car driver you can now get a rwd model y for about £300+vat a month.

That must be with a massive deposit and 5000 miles a year, I can't find anything close to that number

[Nomme de Plum]

Sheepshanks said:

Nomme de Plum said:

Bit of a shame for those of us that cannot access that benefit and pay cash or maybe a straighforward loan for our cars.

Presumably used ones will cost buttons when they all come off lease and private buyers are still reticent.

I prefer the look of the old BMW i3s.

I'm seeing a few used EVs appearing locally so maybe the reticence is reducing and maybe just has to fit into car swop time in a family.

[TheDeuce]

TheRainMaker said:

TheDeuce said:

They're pushing stock into the lease market at crazy low prices. If you're a company car driver you can now get a rwd model y for about £300+vat a month.

That must be with a massive deposit and 5000 miles a year, I can't find anything close to that number

9 months down

https://email.selectcarleasing.co.uk/incredible-fo...

Indeed 5k a year, although a surprising number of daily drivers won't even do that in a year.

Edited by TheDeuce on Tuesday 4th July 15:55

[86]

Chinese EV’s are going to knock the stuffing out of European manufacturers from 2024 onwards. It will test the EU to see if they have to bring in controls. These EV’s will be far cheaper than people like VW can build just as good quality and they will ramp up
Production quickly

[DonkeyApple]

TheRainMaker said:

Nomme de Plum said:

TheRainMaker said:

Nomme de Plum said:

Tesla reduced their prices and have just reported record sales of nearly 470K deliveries in the last quarter.

And will be doing the same again as they have 32000 undelivered cars to shift.

It would be great if they did but Model Y sales 1st quarter 2023 top BEV sales in Europe at 71.6K and Model 3 at 19.6K

Which is superb, but they still have an oversupply of 32000 which need to go.

It's like they need to dial back production

Or they could just keep selling them with larger and larger discounts damaging residuals for current owners.

That's the key. Tesla don't own those cars so if used values drop the loss isn't on their book. Meanwhile their new stock has got such fat margins they can discount to whatever level gets the stock sold. Any losses fall on the shoulders of owners as you say but I'm not sure Musk cares? Won't consumers just take it in the 'Arris and then punch their granny to get another one?

[TheDeuce]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

[TheDeuce]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Because the schemes are BS!

[David87]

Interesting to note that VW haven’t officially signed up to swap over to Tesla’s NACS charging plugs in North America. Most of the other big names have by this point (Ford were first), although I imagine they will shortly.

[nd0000]

Otispunkmeyer said:

I think they've really gone a shot themselves in the foot by ditching the golf brand.

If you trust Autocar, VW are backtracking on that decision. It must be true, there's a highly believable Photoshop.

[ashenfie]

DonkeyApple said:

TheRainMaker said:

Nomme de Plum said:

TheRainMaker said:

Nomme de Plum said:

Tesla reduced their prices and have just reported record sales of nearly 470K deliveries in the last quarter.

And will be doing the same again as they have 32000 undelivered cars to shift.

It would be great if they did but Model Y sales 1st quarter 2023 top BEV sales in Europe at 71.6K and Model 3 at 19.6K

Which is superb, but they still have an oversupply of 32000 which need to go.

It's like they need to dial back production

Or they could just keep selling them with larger and larger discounts damaging residuals for current owners.

That's the key. Tesla don't own those cars so if used values drop the loss isn't on their book. Meanwhile their new stock has got such fat margins they can discount to whatever level gets the stock sold. Any losses fall on the shoulders of owners as you say but I'm not sure Musk cares? Won't consumers just take it in the 'Arris and then punch their granny to get another one?

Most manufacturers manage the used car market as it key to the new car market in that if your car drop by 60% then the lease/pcp costs are higher than if you manage the used car prices and can reduce the to say 45% over a 3 year period.
That why ford direct schemes exist, the can afford to hold stock of cars and control prices.
I suspect the tesla don’t understand the supply and demand element of the car market. They have this ideal that it good to have inventory when made to order avoid a lot of the issues Tesla face.

[Sheepshanks]

ashenfie said:

Most manufacturers manage the used car market as it key to the new car market in that if your car drop by 60% then the lease/pcp costs are higher than if you manage the used car prices and can reduce the to say 45% over a 3 year period.
That why ford direct schemes exist, the can afford to hold stock of cars and control prices.
I suspect the tesla don’t understand the supply and demand element of the car market. They have this ideal that it good to have inventory when made to order avoid a lot of the issues Tesla face.

I think this "change at 3yrs" is quite a British thing isn't it?

Colleagues in the rest of Europe and the US seem happy to run cars fro much longer than we do. Used prices have always seemed much higher in those markets, although possible ours have caught up recently. Maybe theirs are even higher now - I've not discussed it with colleagues for a while.

[kambites]

Sheepshanks said:

I think this "change at 3yrs" is quite a British thing isn't it?

Yes, the British model where almost all new cars are rented out by either the manufacturer or a private lease company for the first few years and then sold to their first private owner after that is very unusual.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 5th July 09:55

[Terminator X]

ruggedscotty said:

if public has choice, ev or ice they are picking ice as i is cheaper to purchase/......


if parity was made then you would be selling EV's imagine -

45%\ tax on an ICE. and punitive annual charge.... soon have folks getting EVs....

at present VW know profit is in ice. not EV. whole automotive trade is struggling.

Stop the ICE sales. and you ill get folks buying evs.....

If that ever came to pass hopefully the buying public would just stick up 2 fingers and keep their existing car.

TX.

[Sheepshanks]

kambites said:

Sheepshanks said:

I think this "change at 3yrs" is quite a British thing isn't it?

Yes, the British model where almost all new cars are rented out by either the manufacturer or a private lease company for the first few years and then sold to their first private owner after that is very unusual.

So it's likely that, at the manufacturer level, they're not that worried about residual values.

The UK importers might be in that it could affect their sales targets etc, but in global terms someone like Tesla won't give a toss about used car prices in the UK.

[Nomme de Plum]

Terminator X said:

ruggedscotty said:

if public has choice, ev or ice they are picking ice as i is cheaper to purchase/......


if parity was made then you would be selling EV's imagine -

45%\ tax on an ICE. and punitive annual charge.... soon have folks getting EVs....

at present VW know profit is in ice. not EV. whole automotive trade is struggling.

Stop the ICE sales. and you ill get folks buying evs.....

If that ever came to pass hopefully the buying public would just stick up 2 fingers and keep their existing car.

TX.

Fuel taxes will be ramped up to persuade people out of their ICE cars when we get into the 2030s 1.4M cars are scrapped annually anyway so it won't be too difficult to ensure the ICE is replaced by an EV over the next decade or so. The Chinese are already introducing much more competitively priced EVs and economies of scale will drive prices even lower.

One way or another we will either drive an EV or not drive a car at all, by mid 2040s /early50s

[DonkeyApple]

Sheepshanks said:

kambites said:

Sheepshanks said:

I think this "change at 3yrs" is quite a British thing isn't it?

Yes, the British model where almost all new cars are rented out by either the manufacturer or a private lease company for the first few years and then sold to their first private owner after that is very unusual.

So it's likely that, at the manufacturer level, they're not that worried about residual values.

The UK importers might be in that it could affect their sales targets etc, but in global terms someone like Tesla won't give a toss about used car prices in the UK.

To a point. If you look at the balance sheets of most mainstream manufacturers the bulk of the assets are used cars and the bulk of the liabilities is the debt on them.

Tesla is unusual in that when they sell a freshly minted car they genuinely sell it so they can smash used values and the cost falls onto the third party owner. Others will retain ultimate ownership of the car not just through the first three year loan cycle but often for the next cycle after that. This is integral for controlling the value of the car at three years in advance so that the financing at the front end can be as competitive as possible.

The simple solution is for the FCA to ban car vendors from dealing in finance and for customers to be free to use the open and competitive market for their borrowing needs.

Or, if you really wanted to promote EVs without needing any grants, subsidies or legislation you'd cap manufacturing funding at £20k for ICe but no such cap on EVs.

But consumers would benefit if manufacturers had no reason to worry about the value of stock that they've built and sold and for the free market to operate.