VW to scale down production of evs

[ashenfie]

paradigital said:

tr7v8 said:

Finally someone has seen VAG for the turds they are. My boss & a colleague in Ireland both serial VAG owners, Audi etc. rejected their electrics as crap & have bought Teslas. There are loads around in NW Kent as their HQ is in Dartford at the bottom of the Dartford bridge.

We were a serial VAG household since 2010, with a 2008 A6, two A4s (2012 and 2013), an S3 (2016), a Lupo (2002), a Polo (2010), a Yeti (2015), and a Passat GTE (2018).

I couldn’t bring myself to buy a VAG EV (at the time, I could be swayed by a Taycan/eTron GT) as they were awful, so bought the Model 3. The biggest issue of the VAG EV offerings isn’t the vehicle build quality, price, or anything like that, it’s the software. Both in-car and the mobile apps, they just suck.

Controlling our Passat GTE vs the Tesla is like comparing dial-up internet to WiFi based FTTP, it’s night and day.

Seams long gone the day that you can put a key in the ignition and just drive off.
Making a sub £30k that people want to buy should be the goal the VW should be aiming for.
The issue is that Tesla have been making ev’s that work, the joke is people criticise the car, when in fact its very good and praise the company when really pretty Crap.

[Silvanus]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Don't doubt it, do you have the link to the figures? I know the model Y currently the 2nd best selling car in Europe, but can't find total VW EV sales.

[kambites]

Silvanus said:

Don't doubt it, do you have the link to the figures? I know the model Y currently the 2nd best selling car in Europe, but can't find total VW EV sales.

VAG outsold Tesla about three to two last year, but of course that's across tens of models over several brands where as Tesla have four models (two of which are very expensive) and a single brand. Individually the Model-3 and Model-Y both outsold each individual VAG model (and indeed everything else) by some margin.

[Silvanus]

kambites said:

Silvanus said:

Don't doubt it, do you have the link to the figures? I know the model Y currently the 2nd best selling car in Europe, but can't find total VW EV sales.

VAG outsold Tesla about three to two last year, but of course that's across tens of models over several brands where as Tesla have four models (two of which are very expensive) and a single brand. Individually the Model-3 and Model-Y both outsold each individual VAG model (and indeed everything else) by some margin.

It's the EV sales figures for VW I couldn't find

[kambites]

Is the "VW" which is going to scale down production in this case actually "VW" the brand or "VAG" the company?

[TikTak]

kambites said:

Is the "VW" which is going to scale down production in this case actually "VW" the brand or "VAG" the company?

With the amount of parts with the main group branding on in other marques you'd assume this would filter down.

[Silvanus]

TikTak said:

kambites said:

Is the "VW" which is going to scale down production in this case actually "VW" the brand or "VAG" the company?

With the amount of parts with the main group branding on in other marques you'd assume this would filter down.

I guess that would depend on how well the other brands EVs are selling, could just be the I.D range not hitting expectations. The are loads of Audi EVs around these parts.

[kurokawa]

TheDeuce said:

Thankfull for this thread. All these years I thought I was the only one that thought the cars were bizarrely crappy but it turns out even those that drive one feel the same way.

VW, you shafted yourself.

I look at the ID.3 when I want a replacement for my i3
ID.3 was very disappointing, especially when a Golf GTi next to it in the showroom
I do not understand VW strategy, walk into Kia, Hyundai, Renault, BMW, none of their EV feel worse than the ICE counterpart

[kambites]

Silvanus said:

TikTak said:

kambites said:

Is the "VW" which is going to scale down production in this case actually "VW" the brand or "VAG" the company?

With the amount of parts with the main group branding on in other marques you'd assume this would filter down.

I guess that would depend on how well the other brands EVs are selling, could just be the I.D range not hitting expectations. The are loads of Audi EVs around these parts.

Quite. For example it might be that VW are scaling back because the Enyaq is taking more sales from the ID4 than expected.

[Zero Fuchs]

kurokawa said:

TheDeuce said:

Thankfull for this thread. All these years I thought I was the only one that thought the cars were bizarrely crappy but it turns out even those that drive one feel the same way.

VW, you shafted yourself.

I look at the ID.3 when I want a replacement for my i3
ID.3 was very disappointing, especially when a Golf GTi next to it in the showroom
I do not understand VW strategy, walk into Kia, Hyundai, Renault, BMW, none of their EV feel worse than the ICE counterpart

Exactly.

Although I think you have a tough time trying to better your i3 and especially with an id3. I have this exact problem. Not that I'm in a hurry to change, as I'm not, but whilst a bit flawed, my i3s is in a class of its own. Even after all these years, I'm disappointed that other manufacturers haven't gone down the low mass route, possibly because it's so difficult.

If I were to change I'd buy an Ionic 5, Nitro, Kona or EV6. But whilst I'd appreciate the quality and range, would miss the nimble, fun and off the line pace of the i3s.

[kambites]

Zero Fuchs said:

Even after all these years, I'm disappointed that other manufacturers haven't gone down the low mass route, possibly because it's so difficult.

Was the i3 actually ever sold at a per-unit profit?

[TheDeuce]

kurokawa said:

TheDeuce said:

Thankfull for this thread. All these years I thought I was the only one that thought the cars were bizarrely crappy but it turns out even those that drive one feel the same way.

VW, you shafted yourself.

I look at the ID.3 when I want a replacement for my i3
ID.3 was very disappointing, especially when a Golf GTi next to it in the showroom
I do not understand VW strategy, walk into Kia, Hyundai, Renault, BMW, none of their EV feel worse than the ICE counterpart

I know right, and the craziest bit is at the ID3 launch they positioned the car as the successor to the Golf. So I'm sure thousands of people made their way to the showrooms to see 'the new Golf' and were confused to find a car that looks like it was designed by someone who has never even seen a Golf.

"Don't worry sir, it costs a lot more and hasn't got an interior, but at least it's slower than your old Golf"

[coetzeeh]

On balance you could add that Tesla decided not to grow production at its Berlin plant. Currently at 50% of intended run rate.

I’d be interested to see what BEV growth figures are in Europe so far this year.

[Zero Fuchs]

kambites said:

Zero Fuchs said:

Even after all these years, I'm disappointed that other manufacturers haven't gone down the low mass route, possibly because it's so difficult.

Was the i3 actually ever sold at a per-unit profit?

I've no idea to be honest, but as with all things, refining and developing will eventually result in more economic and efficient production methods (in theory anyway). I worked on the A350 and it was a bit of a disaster but don't think CFRP will be abandoned in the quantities used on future aircraft. They'll just do it better next time.

I don't think manufacturers have to use huge amounts of CFRP but it makes sense to improve efficiency by having harder mass targets. Better structural optimisation and material choices is where (I think) we should be heading.

[DonkeyApple]

Zero Fuchs said:

I worked on the A350 and it was a bit of a disaster

Unusually honest for PH.

[Zero Fuchs]

DonkeyApple said:

Zero Fuchs said:

I worked on the A350 and it was a bit of a disaster

Unusually honest for PH.

not me I might add (honest guv!) but the project was a fking joke. I vowed never to set foot in one.

As for the interiors.......

[Nomme de Plum]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I stated VW not VAG. They are not the same in exactly same way Lotus sales are not the same as Geely sales.

This article is interesting:

https://www.carscoops.com/2023/04/tesla-model-y-wa...

Fully electric cars accounted for 13.4% of the total new car registrations in Europe in Q1 2023, with 430,700 units. This was the highest-ever first-quarter performance for BEVs, attributed to the larger number of options, the more affordable prices, and the appealing incentives.

Tesla got the largest piece of the pie with a 22% share in BEV registrations, topping the previous year’s record. VW Group occupied second place in the BEV ranking by a small margin, despite surpassing Tesla’s growth in March and having the ID.3 and the ID.4 in the 3rd and 4th place of the rankings respectively."

[Nomme de Plum]

TheRainMaker said:

Nomme de Plum said:

Tesla reduced their prices and have just reported record sales of nearly 470K deliveries in the last quarter.

And will be doing the same again as they have 32000 undelivered cars to shift.

It would be great if they did but Model Y sales 1st quarter 2023 top BEV sales in Europe at 71.6K and Model 3 at 19.6K

[TheDeuce]

Nomme de Plum said:

TheRainMaker said:

Nomme de Plum said:

Tesla reduced their prices and have just reported record sales of nearly 470K deliveries in the last quarter.

And will be doing the same again as they have 32000 undelivered cars to shift.

It would be great if they did but Model Y sales 1st quarter 2023 top BEV sales in Europe at 71.6K and Model 3 at 19.6K

They are cutting the prices still, heavily - just not the headline RRP.

They're pushing stock into the lease market at crazy low prices. If you're a company car driver you can now get a rwd model y for about £300+vat a month.

Needless to say, that's proving quite popular! I alone know two people who have taken advantage.

[TheRainMaker]

Nomme de Plum said:

TheRainMaker said:

Nomme de Plum said:

Tesla reduced their prices and have just reported record sales of nearly 470K deliveries in the last quarter.

And will be doing the same again as they have 32000 undelivered cars to shift.

It would be great if they did but Model Y sales 1st quarter 2023 top BEV sales in Europe at 71.6K and Model 3 at 19.6K

Which is superb, but they still have an oversupply of 32000 which need to go.

It's like they need to dial back production

Or they could just keep selling them with larger and larger discounts damaging residuals for current owners.