Discussion
DMZ said:
So 1,800kg, 0-60 in 3.8 secs. If it drives well then it will be a bit uncomfortable further up the food chain. Performance is getting completely democratised. This was of course always coming as lots of power is now something that can be added to pretty much any car and by any manufacturer. Perhaps range is the real differentiator (for now) hence all the posts about it and chances are range is more important than the time it takes to hit the speed limit for most people.
I genuinely think that it's as simple as the first reaction to a battery car being: 'how far can it go'...'how long does it take to fill up'...Which I get, I completely understand that. I felt that way for about a decade.
But I had that view as a petrol car driver and I didn't see the flip side. I just assumed an electric car was the same deal until it ran out of juice and then I'd plug it in at the services and take the following day off work! Several years of EV later, of course it isn't like that. I charge at home so the car is always ready.
But the first reaction of the masses is what the motoring press will play upon, so therefore every EV is judged by its range. How stupid is that!? The Escort cosworth 2000 was not judged by its mpg.. A 944 turbo is not a s
t joke of a car because the back seats are useless...MG (the new MG) built a perfectly good family hatch which sells well and people like. They have now done the most PH thing possible and doubled the power, sorted out the chassis and invited the world to get excited.
The response from PH... 'what about the range'.
What about the bloody car??? We don't even know if it drives well yet! Assuming it does, I seriously doubt it's legacy will come down to range. I also dispute the fact that EV power being cheap and easy (which it is) means the only other aspect of the car worth considering is range. These are still cars, they're all unique and deserve to be discussed as cars - range is just one factor, one that is far less important than the naysayers or media obsess over.
ChunkyloverSV said:
SWoll said:
Too many people obsessed with "what if?" scenarios and horror stories about charging which the manufacturers and media play on constantly is what fuels the range anxiety fire.
And it all depends on what you consider a long distance? Plenty of EV's now that will do 300 miles to charge, or 5-6 hours of driving in the UK. They'll be more refined, easier to drive and likely considerably cheaper per mile than an ICE alternative so many benefits.
Been driving for 30 years, the last 4 in EV's and done many long trips in both types of car. Despite limited range I'd still pick an EV every time unless we're talking cross continent GT driving. They just need a little more planning in some circumstances.
There is no avoiding the fact that with a ICE car 5 minutes filling up and you are good for many hundreds of miles. The same cannot be said for an EV. And it all depends on what you consider a long distance? Plenty of EV's now that will do 300 miles to charge, or 5-6 hours of driving in the UK. They'll be more refined, easier to drive and likely considerably cheaper per mile than an ICE alternative so many benefits.
Been driving for 30 years, the last 4 in EV's and done many long trips in both types of car. Despite limited range I'd still pick an EV every time unless we're talking cross continent GT driving. They just need a little more planning in some circumstances.
Not everyone wants to be limited by a couple of hours driving then having to spend an hour charging rinse and repeat.
Will sell one soon (10k less than paid in 2015)
Buy EV, probably Tesla
Keep the other one for the twice annual 300 mile + trips & occasional time we need to use both at the same time. The old diesel owes us nothing & zilch to run (under 10p a mile in fuel/£39 tax/£200 insurance)
Will use EV mostly , will get home charger & 4 hours free charging daily at work, go there once or twice a month !
As I said earlier I don’t see the point, a quick hatch with limited range even when driven slowly. How useful is that when you’re out for the day enjoying some nice roads and pushing on? Range will plummet and you’ll spend the day planning where to stop based purely on availability of charging points not actually where you want to stop.
As for someone above who says he stops for lunch or dinner anyway on a 160 mile trip - do you have worms or something?
Ok the face of it, a quickly accelerating EV hatch under the price of a Golf GTi sounds appealing but unfortunately they seem to be taking a good car and making it mostly worse for the sake of some headline 0-60 times.
Who is the target market ? I just don’t get it.
As for someone above who says he stops for lunch or dinner anyway on a 160 mile trip - do you have worms or something?
Ok the face of it, a quickly accelerating EV hatch under the price of a Golf GTi sounds appealing but unfortunately they seem to be taking a good car and making it mostly worse for the sake of some headline 0-60 times.
Who is the target market ? I just don’t get it.
My M140i had less than 300 mile range when driven sedately. Giving it the beans resulted in less than 200 miles. This doesn't seem to be much different really, except the MG is quicker 0-60.
The big difference will be that this won't be £60 to fill up a 40 litre tank but about £5. Guilt free hooning!
For context I hoon around in my i3s and it only has a 120 mile range.
The big difference will be that this won't be £60 to fill up a 40 litre tank but about £5. Guilt free hooning!
For context I hoon around in my i3s and it only has a 120 mile range.
LivLL said:
As I said earlier I don’t see the point, a quick hatch with limited range even when driven slowly. How useful is that when you’re out for the day enjoying some nice roads and pushing on? Range will plummet and you’ll spend the day planning where to stop based purely on availability of charging points not actually where you want to stop.
As for someone above who says he stops for lunch or dinner anyway on a 160 mile trip - do you have worms or something?
Ok the face of it, a quickly accelerating EV hatch under the price of a Golf GTi sounds appealing but unfortunately they seem to be taking a good car and making it mostly worse for the sake of some headline 0-60 times.
Who is the target market ? I just don’t get it.
It's pretty much impossible to drive fast enough on public roads to be able to have a considerable affect on efficiency IME. Even pushing on this car will average around 150 miles I'm sure, and who's driving further than that on a regular basis in order to enjoy some "nice roads"? As for someone above who says he stops for lunch or dinner anyway on a 160 mile trip - do you have worms or something?
Ok the face of it, a quickly accelerating EV hatch under the price of a Golf GTi sounds appealing but unfortunately they seem to be taking a good car and making it mostly worse for the sake of some headline 0-60 times.
Who is the target market ? I just don’t get it.
On longer runs 160 miles is 3+ hours of driving in the UK as average speeds rarely get above 50mph. I don't think stopping every 3-3.5 hours for a break and some refreshment is unusual personally, I used to do exactly that when driving an ICE car anyway and I doubt that's unusual.
Tempted to agree with you on the target market question. I don't see the MG4 even in XPower form as being an aspirational car for the hot hatch brigade, in the same way I don't see MG shifting many Cybersters at £50k+ to existing Boxster buyers, but I guess we'll see.
SWoll said:
It's pretty much impossible to drive fast enough on public roads to be able to have a considerable affect on efficiency IME. Even pushing on this car will average around 150 miles I'm sure, and who's driving further than that on a regular basis in order to enjoy some "nice roads"?
On longer runs 160 miles is 3+ hours of driving in the UK as average speeds rarely get above 50mph. I don't think stopping every 3-3.5 hours for a break and some refreshment is unusual personally, I used to do exactly that when driving an ICE car anyway and I doubt that's unusual.
Tempted to agree with you on the target market question. I don't see the MG4 even in XPower form as being an aspirational car for the hot hatch brigade, in the same way I don't see MG shifting many Cybersters at £50k+ to existing Boxster buyers, but I guess we'll see.
Odd post. Not yours but the previous. I live around the only place in the UK where you can give a car some serious beans regularly (Milton Keynes) but even then I'd be hard pushed to do so for 150 miles. If I did, there are a lot of 100kW + chargers (we have up to 350kW on the doorstep) so a top up wouldn't be an issue with some refreshment.On longer runs 160 miles is 3+ hours of driving in the UK as average speeds rarely get above 50mph. I don't think stopping every 3-3.5 hours for a break and some refreshment is unusual personally, I used to do exactly that when driving an ICE car anyway and I doubt that's unusual.
Tempted to agree with you on the target market question. I don't see the MG4 even in XPower form as being an aspirational car for the hot hatch brigade, in the same way I don't see MG shifting many Cybersters at £50k+ to existing Boxster buyers, but I guess we'll see.
I don't know though. This looks very interesting as a company car and especially now that corporation tax has gone up. Effectively around £27k after write down. My only reservation is that it's 1800kg and I'm pretty sniffy about mass and performance. Personally I don't get how the MG5 estate is alleged 1500kg. That's a big difference.
But this is the same price as the new longer range version and not much more than the trophy. I think this'll be popular car and especially when ICE hot hatches are dying a death.
ChunkyloverSV said:
There is no avoiding the fact that with a ICE car 5 minutes filling up and you are good for many hundreds of miles. The same cannot be said for an EV.
The last long drive we did from Loch Lomond to Leicester at half term was a 5hr long single stint in the EV. In total it took us 9 (NINE) hours to get home, thanks to traffic, overturned lorries etc. In total we stopped twice in those 9 hours, only one of them was an essential fuel stop which we timed with dinner (after the 5hr stint).It doesn't matter how much range you have in your car, in the UK, if you are using the car like any normal family would (so traveling at school holiday time), you aren't going to cover even 100 miles in 2hrs.
LivLL said:
As I said earlier I don’t see the point, a quick hatch with limited range even when driven slowly. How useful is that when you’re out for the day enjoying some nice roads and pushing on? .....
You seem to be living in a different country from the rest of us. The only time I can remember in the last decade when I would say I could drive in the way you have suggest (as in like car adverts) was in the trip to Norway. Going up and down Trollstigen at 5am with no traffic.......absolutely amazing. Guess what, I did that in our EV, no issues with range or charge, just pure motoring heaven 
TheDeuce said:
DMZ said:
So 1,800kg, 0-60 in 3.8 secs. If it drives well then it will be a bit uncomfortable further up the food chain. Performance is getting completely democratised. This was of course always coming as lots of power is now something that can be added to pretty much any car and by any manufacturer. Perhaps range is the real differentiator (for now) hence all the posts about it and chances are range is more important than the time it takes to hit the speed limit for most people.
I genuinely think that it's as simple as the first reaction to a battery car being: 'how far can it go'...'how long does it take to fill up'...Which I get, I completely understand that. I felt that way for about a decade.
But I had that view as a petrol car driver and I didn't see the flip side. I just assumed an electric car was the same deal until it ran out of juice and then I'd plug it in at the services and take the following day off work! Several years of EV later, of course it isn't like that. I charge at home so the car is always ready.
But the first reaction of the masses is what the motoring press will play upon, so therefore every EV is judged by its range. How stupid is that!? The Escort cosworth 2000 was not judged by its mpg.. A 944 turbo is not a s
t joke of a car because the back seats are useless...MG (the new MG) built a perfectly good family hatch which sells well and people like. They have now done the most PH thing possible and doubled the power, sorted out the chassis and invited the world to get excited.
The response from PH... 'what about the range'.
What about the bloody car??? We don't even know if it drives well yet! Assuming it does, I seriously doubt it's legacy will come down to range. I also dispute the fact that EV power being cheap and easy (which it is) means the only other aspect of the car worth considering is range. These are still cars, they're all unique and deserve to be discussed as cars - range is just one factor, one that is far less important than the naysayers or media obsess over.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
When I am on a road trip I want to get to my destination. At most I will stop at a services for a pee & to grab a drink/sandwich. 5 minutes stretch my legs and I want to be off again. I don't understand these people that need to take an hours break having a three course meal at Road Chef to cope with their vehicle having to charge. James6112 said:
2 x 9 year old diesel cars here. Both totally reliable / £30 tax / 60 mpg
Will sell one soon (10k less than paid in 2015)
Buy EV, probably Tesla
Keep the other one for the twice annual 300 mile + trips & occasional time we need to use both at the same time. The old diesel owes us nothing & zilch to run (under 10p a mile in fuel/£39 tax/£200 insurance)
Will use EV mostly , will get home charger & 4 hours free charging daily at work, go there once or twice a month !
If you buy a Tesla, 300 mile trips are p*ss easy, so I reckon you'll take that instead. I have done several 900 mile trips in mine to collect/deliver my daughter and all her crap for uni. It is a great road trip car.Will sell one soon (10k less than paid in 2015)
Buy EV, probably Tesla
Keep the other one for the twice annual 300 mile + trips & occasional time we need to use both at the same time. The old diesel owes us nothing & zilch to run (under 10p a mile in fuel/£39 tax/£200 insurance)
Will use EV mostly , will get home charger & 4 hours free charging daily at work, go there once or twice a month !
ChunkyloverSV said:
The difference is that if a ICE car has poor MPG, 5 minutes at a petrol station the tank is full again.
Bit more than 5 minutes with the normal queues near me and of course a bit of a dent in the wallet. In comparison with the EV overall. I would say though if a persons Life/time management is so poor that they can ensure that their EV is reasonably well charged at the beginning of a trip and accept a relatively short stop every 3 hours or so then they definately should not be buying an EV.
There are plenty of years between now and when it really matters for battery power density to increase sufficiently to enable longer journeys for the minority of people that consider it an issue.
ChunkyloverSV said:
Out of interest which EV will let me do 280 miles ish on a charge?
There's a handful, although none of them will give you any chance from £50k. I think it's relatively rare because the huge majority of buyers have no need or desire for a range that large. Generally the focus for mainstream cars recently has been on increasing charging speeds rather than extending the range beyond about 250 miles. ChunkyloverSV said:
When I am on a road trip I want to get to my destination.
Where and when was your last road trip? How long did it take? Where you and explore in the combustion car that you think an EV would have got stuck? - There is a few occasions, like going game hunting in winter off road etc, but that's not a situation most families find themselves in often . In the last 12 months we've used our EV for Leicester to Scotland, Leicester to Norway, Leicester to Devon, and Leicester to Milford Haven - We live in Leicester
. This Friday we are off to Lake Como and coming back via Stelvio. Instead of talking about dream/fantasy land where there is no traffic, road works, families, its far better to work out how cars are actually used in real life. For us, EVs have not hindered the ability for road trips - quite the opposite infact.
gangzoom said:
ChunkyloverSV said:
When I am on a road trip I want to get to my destination.
Where and when was your last road trip? How long did it take? etc.In the last 12 months we've used our EV for Leicester to Scotland, Leicester to Norway, Leicester to Devon, and Leicester to Milford Haven - We live in Leicester
. This Friday we are off to Lake Como and coming back via Stelvio. Instead of talking about dream/fantasy land where there is no traffic, road works, families, its far better to work out how cars are actually used in real life. For us, EVs have not hindered the ability for road trips - quite the opposite infact.
I am not saying they are not doable, just that its more difficult in an EV.
ChunkyloverSV said:
Would it be quicker/easier/more convenient to do such a journey in a ICE car in 99.99% cases I would always say yes.
I am not saying they are not doable, just that its more difficult in an EV.
So where/when was your last road trip? How long did it take to do? Why couldn't you do it in a MG4 that could can to 60 in under 4 seconds and potentially cost far to refuel> I am not saying they are not doable, just that its more difficult in an EV.
Just went on the MG webstie to find out if anything had changed, and quite unbelievably given the current climate they're actually doing 0% APR on PCP.
It is 30% deposit up front, which works out to be between ~£8200 to ~£10k depending on model chosen, but the monthly payments are incredible. £129 for the cheapest model and only £189 for the Trophy.
If you amortise the deposit (which no one ever really does) then it's ~£580 a month for the top model, and ~£457 for the lowest one. That seems very good to me?
It is 30% deposit up front, which works out to be between ~£8200 to ~£10k depending on model chosen, but the monthly payments are incredible. £129 for the cheapest model and only £189 for the Trophy.
If you amortise the deposit (which no one ever really does) then it's ~£580 a month for the top model, and ~£457 for the lowest one. That seems very good to me?
Durzel said:
Just went on the MG webstie to find out if anything had changed, and quite unbelievably given the current climate they're actually doing 0% APR on PCP.
It is 30% deposit up front, which works out to be between ~£8200 to ~£10k depending on model chosen, but the monthly payments are incredible. £129 for the cheapest model and only £189 for the Trophy.
If you amortise the deposit (which no one ever really does) then it's ~£580 a month for the top model, and ~£457 for the lowest one. That seems very good to me?
It is this sort of pricing and finance offers which many will find compelling. It will also put pressure on legacy MMs to better their offer. It is 30% deposit up front, which works out to be between ~£8200 to ~£10k depending on model chosen, but the monthly payments are incredible. £129 for the cheapest model and only £189 for the Trophy.
If you amortise the deposit (which no one ever really does) then it's ~£580 a month for the top model, and ~£457 for the lowest one. That seems very good to me?
Durzel said:
If you amortise the deposit (which no one ever really does) then it's ~£580 a month for the top model, and ~£457 for the lowest one. That seems very good to me?
As always the 0% APR is a fallacy given you can buy one for a healthy discount off list if you’re not taking the finance It’s just a 2 year PCP at that rate too, so either hand it back having kissed goodbye to £14k or pay the £17k final payment.
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