600LT Spider + Vanquish S or go peak standalone McLaren
Discussion
Currently have a 600LT Spider but have a serious
itch for a V12 Aston namely a Vanquish S Coupe.
At the same time I look at a 765LT coupe or a 675LT Spider and think that's absolute peak McLaren and I could run either on their own or the other two combined.
By the same measure I think a Vanquish S Coupe is close to peak Aston and a 600LT Spider is almost peak McLaren (depending who you ask!). I've owned a V12VS previously and loved the engine and the general feelgood factor of having an Aston. Of course many Mclaren owners have had Astons previously and plenty run both which is the ideal position to be in ...I'm a big fan of both marques if that wasn't obvious!
itch for a V12 Aston namely a Vanquish S Coupe.
At the same time I look at a 765LT coupe or a 675LT Spider and think that's absolute peak McLaren and I could run either on their own or the other two combined.
By the same measure I think a Vanquish S Coupe is close to peak Aston and a 600LT Spider is almost peak McLaren (depending who you ask!). I've owned a V12VS previously and loved the engine and the general feelgood factor of having an Aston. Of course many Mclaren owners have had Astons previously and plenty run both which is the ideal position to be in ...I'm a big fan of both marques if that wasn't obvious!
Edited by RSbandit on Friday 1st September 02:34
I'm sure that the V12V is a different beast - and if you've already had one, you know what they're like. But :
I had a V8V for about 4 years - I liked it a lot (apart from a period of a couple of months when it suddenly decided it should cost more than my Ferrari to run). However - when I test drove my first 650 - and then got back in the Aston - I was surprised just how poor it felt by comparison. In theory they are different cars designed for different use - but the 650 is so good at "normal" stuff that it really put the Aston to shame.
I guess it's a little different when comparing 600LT since I'd assume that is a little more compromised in the "normal" stuff - and you're talking about a level more in the Astons.
I did think my Aston was a special thing - and I am pretty sure I will own another one in future - but for me personally, I think it will feel like a step down from the McLaren I have now. I don't think I'd want both at the same time.
In your position I think I'd be tempted to go 675LT. They seem to be becoming halo cars and I think future value will be positive (although I usually get this wrong!)
I had a V8V for about 4 years - I liked it a lot (apart from a period of a couple of months when it suddenly decided it should cost more than my Ferrari to run). However - when I test drove my first 650 - and then got back in the Aston - I was surprised just how poor it felt by comparison. In theory they are different cars designed for different use - but the 650 is so good at "normal" stuff that it really put the Aston to shame.
I guess it's a little different when comparing 600LT since I'd assume that is a little more compromised in the "normal" stuff - and you're talking about a level more in the Astons.
I did think my Aston was a special thing - and I am pretty sure I will own another one in future - but for me personally, I think it will feel like a step down from the McLaren I have now. I don't think I'd want both at the same time.
In your position I think I'd be tempted to go 675LT. They seem to be becoming halo cars and I think future value will be positive (although I usually get this wrong!)
davek_964 said:
I'm sure that the V12V is a different beast - and if you've already had one, you know what they're like. But :
I had a V8V for about 4 years - I liked it a lot (apart from a period of a couple of months when it suddenly decided it should cost more than my Ferrari to run). However - when I test drove my first 650 - and then got back in the Aston - I was surprised just how poor it felt by comparison. In theory they are different cars designed for different use - but the 650 is so good at "normal" stuff that it really put the Aston to shame.
I guess it's a little different when comparing 600LT since I'd assume that is a little more compromised in the "normal" stuff - and you're talking about a level more in the Astons.
I did think my Aston was a special thing - and I am pretty sure I will own another one in future - but for me personally, I think it will feel like a step down from the McLaren I have now. I don't think I'd want both at the same time.
In your position I think I'd be tempted to go 675LT. They seem to be becoming halo cars and I think future value will be positive (although I usually get this wrong!)
I think if your planning to sell the 600 LT Spider, right now it is one of the very few cars not actually seeing a drop in used prices as there is like literally only 2-3 cars available for sale right now (Spider). So if you have a good spec car you could potentially see strong money for it, will the prices continue to rise a little or be firm, who knows, but as so many other cars are tumbling in price and with so few 600 LT Spiders for sale now could be right time to sell on.I had a V8V for about 4 years - I liked it a lot (apart from a period of a couple of months when it suddenly decided it should cost more than my Ferrari to run). However - when I test drove my first 650 - and then got back in the Aston - I was surprised just how poor it felt by comparison. In theory they are different cars designed for different use - but the 650 is so good at "normal" stuff that it really put the Aston to shame.
I guess it's a little different when comparing 600LT since I'd assume that is a little more compromised in the "normal" stuff - and you're talking about a level more in the Astons.
I did think my Aston was a special thing - and I am pretty sure I will own another one in future - but for me personally, I think it will feel like a step down from the McLaren I have now. I don't think I'd want both at the same time.
In your position I think I'd be tempted to go 675LT. They seem to be becoming halo cars and I think future value will be positive (although I usually get this wrong!)
I'd personally keep it and buy the V12 Aston alongside, as it is a totally different experience, I had a V8V Vantage and I guess with the Aston it is all about the looks, sound and heritage, can't really talk about driving dynamics as any Mclaren will run circles around nearly any Aston.
I guess you need to ask yourself what you love about the 600 LT Spider and what you dislike, then see if the dislikes could be improved upon with an 675 LT or 765 LT, I myself with my 600 LT Spider I find it is such a superb all round car for me its only real negative is the fact the front splitter can scrape sometimes even when having fun on an a or b road. I shall attempt to solve this by fitting the next tyre size up 235/35/19 up from 225/35/19 in the hope that the additional 2-3mm height from the taller wall front tyres might just be enough to eliminate this very minor issue. The Artura runs this size in the front, but also steps the rear to a 305, I will keep the 285 in the rear as been slightly under tyre is what makes the 600 LT quite a lot of fun to drive.
I think what gibbonsaid, run it alongside as its a real marmite experience.
Vanquish is one of the most disappointing cars ive ever owned, not saying it was a bad car per-sae but vs everything else that was out there it fell very short, apart from the looks, and the 6-7k sound the exhaust made, comfort wasnt bad.
Didnt feel quick (S 572hp version) handling felt comparable with old TVRs as did the scuttle shake, entertainment system was woeful but contrary to others i liked the old style buttons, last iteration of gearbox wasnt too bad for cruising, not so good for pressing on (vs dct anyway)
I had the S cabrio and think the standard vanquish would be a better option tbh as its premise suits its abilities better, same with the mercedes S63 coupe vs std. S500, latter is the better gel.
I ran it alongside the amg gtr, s63 cabrio andnthe Aventador, they all put the aston to shame.
Vanquish is one of the most disappointing cars ive ever owned, not saying it was a bad car per-sae but vs everything else that was out there it fell very short, apart from the looks, and the 6-7k sound the exhaust made, comfort wasnt bad.
Didnt feel quick (S 572hp version) handling felt comparable with old TVRs as did the scuttle shake, entertainment system was woeful but contrary to others i liked the old style buttons, last iteration of gearbox wasnt too bad for cruising, not so good for pressing on (vs dct anyway)
I had the S cabrio and think the standard vanquish would be a better option tbh as its premise suits its abilities better, same with the mercedes S63 coupe vs std. S500, latter is the better gel.
I ran it alongside the amg gtr, s63 cabrio andnthe Aventador, they all put the aston to shame.
Edited by Kerniki on Friday 1st September 09:59
Gibbo205 said:
I think if your planning to sell the 600 LT Spider, right now it is one of the very few cars not actually seeing a drop in used prices as there is like literally only 2-3 cars available for sale right now (Spider). So if you have a good spec car you could potentially see strong money for it, will the prices continue to rise a little or be firm, who knows, but as so many other cars are tumbling in price and with so few 600 LT Spiders for sale now could be right time to sell on.
Probably best to be accurate, 5 spiders as of today on autotrader and a lot more coupes than recently with quite a few coming on at sub £140k again. Whilst i appreciate your opinion, i would bet my left nut, same as this conversation last year, come autumn the market will swell with 600lt's, spiders and coupes and the price will go down, prices are definitely not rising (since spring). In answer to the op as your last line above, if you have a spider and "thinking" of selling, dont delay, get it on the market quick whilst your still in the black, sit on the money till January and resume the search.
765Lt all day long, unless your budget only stretches to the 675.
Problem with multiple cars is you can only drive one at anytime so best to go big or go home and reduce your outgoings on maintenance and insurance etc IMHO.
675LT spider would be nice upgrade from 600LT and your money is pretty safe in the original limited super series LT model.
765LT are still a lot of money but if your budget can stretch and you can stomach future depreciation then some might argue the latest is the best
675LT spider would be nice upgrade from 600LT and your money is pretty safe in the original limited super series LT model.
765LT are still a lot of money but if your budget can stretch and you can stomach future depreciation then some might argue the latest is the best
Streetbeat said:
Probably best to be accurate, 5 spiders as of today on autotrader and a lot more coupes than recently with quite a few coming on at sub £140k again. Whilst i appreciate your opinion, i would bet my left nut, same as this conversation last year, come autumn the market will swell with 600lt's, spiders and coupes and the price will go down, prices are definitely not rising (since spring).
In answer to the op as your last line above, if you have a spider and "thinking" of selling, dont delay, get it on the market quick whilst your still in the black, sit on the money till January and resume the search.
765Lt all day long, unless your budget only stretches to the 675.
I was looking to buy this time last year and there was nearly 20 Spiders for sale, so same time a year later and far less cars for sale. Shall see what happens but I was in my 600 LT Spider this time last year and there was a lot more for sale, so either there is a delay with cars coming up for sale or there is simply less now.In answer to the op as your last line above, if you have a spider and "thinking" of selling, dont delay, get it on the market quick whilst your still in the black, sit on the money till January and resume the search.
765Lt all day long, unless your budget only stretches to the 675.
Thanks for the comments and some interesting perspective. Of course the Aston is completely different to the Mclaren and I guess that's the idea. One thing I miss about my V12VS apart from the noise was the simply electric throttle response in Sport mode, dynamically the car I replaced it with (570s) was on a different level however. Vanquish S values have softened alot recently and over the winter they might even get into the low 100's around that price its v tempting. 765LT I love the look of but it's prob too high in value given I like the occasional track day. I track my 600 and it's brilliant but it's value is significantly less than a 765. A 675LT has already garnered legendary status and seems like a safe place to put money only problem is not many for sale in Spider form and again maybe too valuable to track. To conclude I think I'll be keeping an eye on the Vanquish S mkt over the winter!
Gibbo205 said:
I'd personally keep it and buy the V12 Aston alongside, as it is a totally different experience, I had a V8V Vantage and I guess with the Aston it is all about the looks, sound and heritage, can't really talk about driving dynamics as any Mclaren will run circles around nearly any Aston.
+1. I have 600LT Spider and V12VS and yes the 600LT is absolutely on another dynamic level. However, as my Aston has the full AMR performance pack fitted, which includes magnesium inlets, full titanium exhaust and no secondary cats. So when the Sport button is activated, it sounds like Hades has risen from the Underworld and is looking to do serious damage :-) It's sensational and elevates the drama / theatre of every drive. I know I'm going to find it very, very difficult to let it go !!
OP, apart from looking at it in the garage, do you know when you would actually drive the Vanq?
Kept my V12 V given its NA V12 and manual gearshift, but I rarely end up using it. It’s really only a car for fair weather days, but would have to compete with Mac top down, or even the Atom (manual as well). The Mac is far more usable in the wet too.
Kept my V12 V given its NA V12 and manual gearshift, but I rarely end up using it. It’s really only a car for fair weather days, but would have to compete with Mac top down, or even the Atom (manual as well). The Mac is far more usable in the wet too.
This is like a bear trap for 675 owners.
600lt spider is a great car.
765lt pretty awesome car.
The 675 is imo, totally beyond both of them for, imo, multiples of reasons.
But for me in a nutshell, the 765 is perhaps too quick and with the 750 it's going to take a serious hit on values.
Flame me all you want but it's not myself that introduced the 'value' part on this thread.
The 600lt is great; no hydraulic suspension however, and seem to be quite a few gearbox replacements, but apart from that fine.
I decided against a 2019 napier green spider for £130k in Nov 2020 as again wondered where they might settle.
They went through a nice flourish this year though.
The 675 is a truly special car, and when someone like AB says its peak McLaren, I am inclined to agree.
I see it and the F1 as being the best moments in McLaren production, and I am far from being alone with that sentiment.
Whatever anyone says, buying a car that is always worth more than you paid regardless of use, makes the whole experience even more enjoyable.
We picked up a GTS cab 6 weeks ago as its supposed to be a proper Porsche sweet spot; it's great, but suspension on comfort is so harsh compared to the 675, the state of the art 8speed pdk is much slower and even slightly jerky compared to the 675 and even though I have the P1 seats, the comfort inside the GTS doesn't hold a candle to the 10 year old design with the full carbon tub.
Oh, and speedo showing 580 miles it's worth about £6k less than purchase; that sucks.
Like almost everything 675 prices are currently low, so if you were considering, this one car does the job of everything you are looking for.
The black roof scoop with 30k miles listed at £170k looks like a fantastic buy that you can't go wrong.
Swap to P1 seats and you have a stonking car that will forever be worth more than you paid for it; adding miles means nothing and it will be amazing on the track especially with that induction soundtrack in the cabin.
I have loved every minute of ownership, and shall almost certainly view this as the best car I will have owned when boring the grand kids in years to come.
600lt spider is a great car.
765lt pretty awesome car.
The 675 is imo, totally beyond both of them for, imo, multiples of reasons.
But for me in a nutshell, the 765 is perhaps too quick and with the 750 it's going to take a serious hit on values.
Flame me all you want but it's not myself that introduced the 'value' part on this thread.
The 600lt is great; no hydraulic suspension however, and seem to be quite a few gearbox replacements, but apart from that fine.
I decided against a 2019 napier green spider for £130k in Nov 2020 as again wondered where they might settle.
They went through a nice flourish this year though.
The 675 is a truly special car, and when someone like AB says its peak McLaren, I am inclined to agree.
I see it and the F1 as being the best moments in McLaren production, and I am far from being alone with that sentiment.
Whatever anyone says, buying a car that is always worth more than you paid regardless of use, makes the whole experience even more enjoyable.
We picked up a GTS cab 6 weeks ago as its supposed to be a proper Porsche sweet spot; it's great, but suspension on comfort is so harsh compared to the 675, the state of the art 8speed pdk is much slower and even slightly jerky compared to the 675 and even though I have the P1 seats, the comfort inside the GTS doesn't hold a candle to the 10 year old design with the full carbon tub.
Oh, and speedo showing 580 miles it's worth about £6k less than purchase; that sucks.
Like almost everything 675 prices are currently low, so if you were considering, this one car does the job of everything you are looking for.
The black roof scoop with 30k miles listed at £170k looks like a fantastic buy that you can't go wrong.
Swap to P1 seats and you have a stonking car that will forever be worth more than you paid for it; adding miles means nothing and it will be amazing on the track especially with that induction soundtrack in the cabin.
I have loved every minute of ownership, and shall almost certainly view this as the best car I will have owned when boring the grand kids in years to come.
Wheelspinning said:
The 600lt is great; no hydraulic suspension however.
That would seem to be the crux of the matter to me, the biggest thing you're getting for the extra money. Some people really like the cross-linked suspension, while others (including Henry Catchpole) prefer the conventional setup of the Sports Series. I guess my question for the OP would be if they've had a chance to drive both and developed a personal preference for the trick suspension that only comes on the Super Series, as the value I placed on that would drive my personal decision.
samoht said:
That would seem to be the crux of the matter to me, the biggest thing you're getting for the extra money.
Some people really like the cross-linked suspension, while others (including Henry Catchpole) prefer the conventional setup of the Sports Series. I guess my question for the OP would be if they've had a chance to drive both and developed a personal preference for the trick suspension that only comes on the Super Series, as the value I placed on that would drive my personal decision.
From my experience and to my personal taste I prefer the passive suspension setup from a feel, engagement and what I prefer.Some people really like the cross-linked suspension, while others (including Henry Catchpole) prefer the conventional setup of the Sports Series. I guess my question for the OP would be if they've had a chance to drive both and developed a personal preference for the trick suspension that only comes on the Super Series, as the value I placed on that would drive my personal decision.
No denying the hydraulic suspension makes the cars a superb all rounder as the ride is so good but for me if a car is essentially not that engaging or involving at sensible speeds it’s not for me and as such my decision between a 720S and 600 LT was easy, I got the latter. If it’s all about track time, going as fast as possible with no regard for speed limits buy a 720S, want something really special get the 675 / 765 LT.
If you want more engagement particular in a road car a firmer ride but still exceptional ride compared to other cars the 600 LT is great and as I’ve said many times the top mount exhaust and roof or window down bring another exciting enjoyment to the car and it’s still way to quick for the road if brutally honest.
Everyone is different and has different priorities so go drive them all at the end of the day no matter what McLaren you buy and own, your winning at life, well as long as you drive and enjoy it anyway.
The hydraulic suspension is not just about comfort - it’s about keep all four corners planted. And filters out road chatter noise to give you the true signal of the road surface. The Sports suspension is nice for a conventional one - but ultimately inferior because if gives you lots of arbitrary noise and a poorer feel for the road. I’m always surprised by how even experienced performance drivers seem to mistake vibration for “raw feel”.
Edited by 12pack on Sunday 3rd September 15:54
12pack said:
The hydraulic suspension is not just about comfort - it’s about keep all four corners planted. And filters out road chatter noise to give you the true signal of the road surface. The Sports suspension is nice for a conventional one - but ultimately inferior because if gives you lots of arbitrary noise and a poorer feel for the road. I’m always surprised by how even experienced performance drivers seem to mistake vibration for “raw feel” - Mr. Catchpole included.
What’s makes us all different as I too prefer the passive suspension. Gibbo205 said:
I was looking to buy this time last year and there was nearly 20 Spiders for sale, so same time a year later and far less cars for sale. Shall see what happens but I was in my 600 LT Spider this time last year and there was a lot more for sale, so either there is a delay with cars coming up for sale or there is simply less now.
Which kind of confirms my point about values, less for sale and similarly priced or less. Coupes are already on the slide compared to peak spring prices and back in line with late winter prices with a few under £140k again. I seem to remember you mentioning holding out for the prices to drop over winter when you were looking to buy, but you found the right car at the right price and enjoyed it, which is what its all about.There is a lot of data in this thread for all to see, probably not ideal if your wishing prices up/holding firm. I guess at least we can all compare like for like in a month or two.
Don't forget 600LT was not limited and there are 3,500 worldwide whereas the 675LT is 500/500 worldwide.
Thus was mclarens biggest mistake with 600LT.
Not limiting them to say even 1,500 units harmed residual values big time.
They couldn't sell them all until they started to give them away at the end with crazy £1,000 pm PCP deals.
Residuals wise the 675LT will always be better being the far rarer car.
As 600LTs get older they will continue to drop whereas the original limited super series 675LT will probably appreciate from today's bottom out prices.
I certainly won't be parting company with mine.
Coming up 7 years old with 13,000 miles so 2,000 miles per annum is not going to harm its value.
It's no garage queen and gets used regularly as do my 3 other cars which I try to spread mileage equally on.
So before anyone says I don't use my cars that 8,000 pa private miles on sunny weekends.
Thus was mclarens biggest mistake with 600LT.
Not limiting them to say even 1,500 units harmed residual values big time.
They couldn't sell them all until they started to give them away at the end with crazy £1,000 pm PCP deals.
Residuals wise the 675LT will always be better being the far rarer car.
As 600LTs get older they will continue to drop whereas the original limited super series 675LT will probably appreciate from today's bottom out prices.
I certainly won't be parting company with mine.
Coming up 7 years old with 13,000 miles so 2,000 miles per annum is not going to harm its value.
It's no garage queen and gets used regularly as do my 3 other cars which I try to spread mileage equally on.
So before anyone says I don't use my cars that 8,000 pa private miles on sunny weekends.
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