New hybrid series Mac

[650spider]

Regards to the upcoming new hybrid series, does anyone have any other info apart from the small drip feeds to the press?

I have a feeling that its actually going to be pretty spectacular, and am quite interested in it especially as they reckon its only going to be 30-40kg heavier than outgoing sports series, but with the obvious extra oower.

Also interesting also to hear that they have developed a replacement battery cell for the P1 that is cheaper and more efficent...hopefully as SSO suggested they shall also look into extending the 10 year warranty on cars getting to that age...

[Bispal]

Have you seen the patent drawings?

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/mclaren/109077/new-m...

I think it looks too similar to a 570s.

McLaren had a cracking consistent design language with the P11 cars when Frank Stephenson was leading the design. If the 570 is the springboard design language for the future cars I think they have made a mistake. It should have been more 'out there' or 'classic McLaren'. I am going to reserve judgement until I see one in the flesh.

I love 6 cyl engines, the Exige, 911, proper M cars all sound amazing! I prefer a good 6 cyl to most V8's so there is no issue for me in that dept. Just the appearance, the Maserati MC20 looks nicer going off what I have seen so far.

[Matty3]

No bad thing if it follows the 570 profiles which I much prefer to the Super Series cars. First impressions look most favourable in my book.

[12pack]

Bispal said:

Have you seen the patent drawings?

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/mclaren/109077/new-m...

I think it looks too similar to a 570s.

McLaren had a cracking consistent design language with the P11 cars when Frank Stephenson was leading the design. Just the appearance, the Maserati MC20 looks nicer going off what I have seen so far.

+1. I hope they don’t slap on the rococo styling and go a smooth, taut, integrated look, flowing like the air over the car - a la Frank Stephenson.

Edited by 12pack on Saturday 24th October 12:44

[RBT0]

Much better than expected.

However the shift to traditional "Ferrari 488" side intake seems a decision driven by cost saving, moving away from the peculiar double sided door panels with air flowing in between, very peculiar of McLarens.

Mmmmm....

[SSO]

Personally quite concerned with the move to hybridization. Added weight and complexity will not help the driving experience. Just posted a blog on it.

[RBT0]

SSO said:

Personally quite concerned with the move to hybridization. Added weight and complexity will not help the driving experience. Just posted a blog on it.

Fully agree!

[650spider]

SSO said:

Personally quite concerned with the move to hybridization. Added weight and complexity will not help the driving experience. Just posted a blog on it.

Unfortunately, its inevitable evolution and its coming our way even quicker than we anticipated going by proposals to bring forward previously set deadlines by Westminister and Holyrood.

We have been waiting for the launch of the all new GLS63 AMG to replace my wifes current one, however we have been offered an MB EQC for a'48hr demo next weekend; initially I declined but taking it now as I cannot dismiss without trying, and that is going from full filthy sounding V8 bypassing hybrid and going to full electric.

Likewise for replacing my 650spider; kind of decided to go for a 720spider over 675LT spider in Feb/March at very
latest, but cannot help but be intrigued by how good the hybrid Mac might just be.

Full turnaround for me because until about 2 weeks ago had no aspiration towards hybrid or electric.

I appreciate there are still plenty out there that cannot even deal with going from a N/A engine to a turbo one, never mind hybrid / electric, but i am not in that category.

Its just that the 720 was launched in 2017 and McLaren kind of jumped a few generations with that as I still do not think there is anything else the other big 3 have launched since that can lace its boots for the overall package; i feel as though they might just do the same with this new hybrid...

However, they have to get the quality and finish bang on from the offset; they cannot rush this out like they did with the 720.

[12pack]

Interesting to hear, 650.

I have an NA V12 manual and a Tesla in addition to the Mac. They are all different and excel in their own ways. Full BEV is appealing to me from the purity of the engineering - getting power to the wheels in the most efficient way possible, though I must say the EQC is not a very good example of this.

I am involved in the chips that go into EV’s as well as internal combustion engines. Our marketing do expect hybrids to now be the largest segment until 2030 when BEVs and charging infrastructure will fully evolve, though they will never match the power density of petrol or diesel. Great for my business as that means we will sell chips for 48V motors in addition to those for the ICE.

SSO, just bought a Mini electric for my daughter to replace her Cooper S. It drives FAR better than the petrol one, with the batteries replacing the fuel tank and the gear box so that they are in a T shape low and central. It’s as heavy as the 650 spider, but the weight distribution doesn’t suffer from the cast iron lump out in front of the tires (like in the petrol Cooper).

I can see the performance cars of the future running with smaller, lighter batteries and motors located for optimal weight distribution, even if they won’t have the driving range.

Edited by 12pack on Sunday 25th October 17:53

[Bispal]

SSO said:

Personally quite concerned with the move to hybridization. Added weight and complexity will not help the driving experience. Just posted a blog on it.

Not sure hybrid is the issue. At least they retain an ICE. The weight seems to be more a result of the size and the general public's appetite for SUV's. Hybrid cars can be very good if done properly. P1 1395 kilos?

For me the future was the VW XL1 at 795 kilos, and the gen 1 Honda Insight at 850 kilos. The public wanted neither as they were too small to be cars of status. They want SUV's and the bigger the better to show the world how important they are (In their opinion) and wealthy (most fianaced) .....

[Pioneer]

12pack said:

Interesting to hear, 650.

I have an NA V12 manual and a Tesla in addition to the Mac. They are all different and excel in their own ways. Full BEV is appealing to me from the purity of the engineering - getting power to the wheels in the most efficient way possible, though I must say the EQC is not a very good example of this.

I am involved in the chips that go into EV’s as well as internal combustion engines. Our marketing do expect hybrids to now be the largest segment until 2030 when BEVs and charging infrastructure will fully evolve, though they will never match the power density of petrol or diesel. Great for my business as that means we will sell chips for 48V motors in addition to those for the ICE.

SSO, just bought a Mini electric for my daughter to replace her Cooper S. It drives FAR better than the petrol one, with the batteries replacing the fuel tank and the gear box so that they are in a T shape low and central. It’s as heavy as the 650 spider, but the weight distribution doesn’t suffer from the cast iron lump out in front of the tires (like in the petrol Cooper).

I can see the performance cars of the future running with smaller, lighter batteries and motors located for optimal weight distribution, even if they won’t have the driving range.

Edited by 12pack on Sunday 25th October 17:53

Good post. And I agree 100% ref. the SCs of the (near) future.

[650spider]

Bispal said:

The public wanted neither as they were too small to be cars of status. They want SUV's and the bigger the better to show the world how important they are (In their opinion) and wealthy (most fianaced) .....

Plenty of threads for judging about how people pay for their cars; thats got zero to do with why i started this thread...i have no interest in that subject at all.

[Bispal]

650spider said:

Bispal said:

The public wanted neither as they were too small to be cars of status. They want SUV's and the bigger the better to show the world how important they are (In their opinion) and wealthy (most fianaced) .....

Plenty of threads for judging about how people pay for their cars; thats got zero to do with why i started this thread...i have no interest in that subject at all.

Was discussing with SSO, not yourself in this case.......

[SSO]

12pack said:

SSO, just bought a Mini electric for my daughter to replace her Cooper S. It drives FAR better than the petrol one, with the batteries replacing the fuel tank and the gear box so that they are in a T shape low and central. It’s as heavy as the 650 spider, but the weight distribution doesn’t suffer from the cast iron lump out in front of the tires (like in the petrol Cooper).

Edited by 12pack on Sunday 25th October 17:53

This is quite an interesting comment and the first time I have heard someone say a EV driving better than its ICE sibling. Very interested to hear the criteria the is driving the conclusion.

[12pack]

SSO said:

This is quite an interesting comment and the first time I have heard someone say a EV driving better than its ICE sibling. Very interested to hear the criteria the is driving the conclusion.

Of course, there’s the direct throttle response without the disconnect of having to go through a gearbox, but even more obvious is the balance. Even though it’s heavier, the weight is lower and central. That makes it handle lighter. Doesn’t push at the limit like the petrol car (battery where the fuel cell was) and transitions faster. I have plenty of racing experience in US and the UK, but here I’m just talking about driving on our local B roads. Sure, it didn’t have the rorty sound and perhaps the sense of going through the revs, but as is said on track, it’s first pace and then grace.

Again, the point is that they didn’t go for a large battery as they are designing an auxiliary car, so the weight gain is countered by the ability to ballast it better.

Edited by 12pack on Monday 26th October 18:20

[650spider]

SSO said:

12pack said:

SSO, just bought a Mini electric for my daughter to replace her Cooper S. It drives FAR better than the petrol one, with the batteries replacing the fuel tank and the gear box so that they are in a T shape low and central. It’s as heavy as the 650 spider, but the weight distribution doesn’t suffer from the cast iron lump out in front of the tires (like in the petrol Cooper).

Edited by 12pack on Sunday 25th October 17:53

This is quite an interesting comment and the first time I have heard someone say a EV driving better than its ICE sibling. Very interested to hear the criteria the is driving the conclusion.

Hey 12pack

Whats the real world range on the mini from a full charge compared to the manufacturers figures?
This is the bit that always concerns me.
My V-Class MB is supposed to average about 45mpg; i don't think i have ever cracked 40mpg; usually high 30's.
Fuel consumption doesn't really bother me; I just like to have facts rather than BS as then everyone knows where we are.


SSO,

I thought with previously having the P1 you would be looking forward to McLarens next foray into hybrid with all the previous knowledge from P1 creation and the subsequent 6 years of changes in technology...do you not feel if anyone shall do a good job of it, that it would be McLaren?

[12pack]

650spider said:

Hey 12pack

Whats the real world range on the mini from a full charge compared to the manufacturers figures?
This is the bit that always concerns me.
My V-Class MB is supposed to average about 45mpg; i don't think i have ever cracked 40mpg; usually high 30's.
Fuel consumption doesn't really bother me; I just like to have facts rather than BS as then everyone knows where we are.

Well, the new WLTP cycle is more realistic, but does not fully consider temperature conditions. BEVs don’t have gears so they do better at city speeds. Just driven around town in the summer the Mini will do 20% better than the WLTP rating, but driven on the motorway in the winter, if you don’t precondition (you can program the car to do this while it is connected to your home charger) it will use battery power to get the batteries to temp and be 30% worse. So just depends on how you use the car. Tesla are the best at battery management and I have driven over 400 miles on a single charge, slightly better than the WLTP rating on the motorway in summer. It also helps that the Tesla has a very low drag coefficient.

Edited by 12pack on Tuesday 27th October 07:41

[Kent Border Kenny]

SSO said:

This is quite an interesting comment and the first time I have heard someone say a EV driving better than its ICE sibling. Very interested to hear the criteria the is driving the conclusion.

I prefer the electric Smart to the petrol one. Far more fun.

[SSO]

650spider said:

SSO,

I thought with previously having the P1 you would be looking forward to McLarens next foray into hybrid with all the previous knowledge from P1 creation and the subsequent 6 years of changes in technology...do you not feel if anyone shall do a good job of it, that it would be McLaren?

Im sure McLaren's engineering will be excellent. However based on the P1 experience, I do believe ditching the battery with its added weight would have given the P1 an agility no one could match and probably increased the bhp/kg. Also I haven't heard anything about the battery longevity and care needs for the next generation hybrid. If it like the P1 and the battery goes flat, you have a $150k bill. Also what's the batteries useful lifespan and how is it going to impact residuals?

I dont think the next gen of supercars needs more bhp. I would rather see them concentrate on getting the weight down while maintaining the direct connection between the driver and engine/brakes/wheels/gears.

[SSO]

12pack said:

Of course, there’s the direct throttle response without the disconnect of having to go through a gearbox, but even more obvious is the balance. Even though it’s heavier, the weight is lower and central. That makes it handle lighter. Doesn’t push at the limit like the petrol car (battery where the fuel cell was) and transitions faster. I have plenty of racing experience in US and the UK, but here I’m just talking about driving on our local B roads. Sure, it didn’t have the rorty sound and perhaps the sense of going through the revs, but as is said on track, it’s first pace and then grace.

Again, the point is that they didn’t go for a large battery as they are designing an auxiliary car, so the weight gain is countered by the ability to ballast it better.

Edited by 12pack on Monday 26th October 18:20

I think your comment on pace and grace sums it up for me. I'll take grace with its sound and gears for public roads and then opt for pace on the track.