New Carbon Fibre Tub Revealed

New Carbon Fibre Tub Revealed

Author
Discussion

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

61 months

Thursday 27th August 2020
quotequote all

This is the base for McLaren’s new hybrid supercars > https://www.topgear.com/car-news/hybrid/base-mclar...


RBT0

1,540 posts

126 months

Thursday 27th August 2020
quotequote all
It's lighter than current one, also now manufactured in house.

However only partially offsets the weight increase of hybrid technology (battery) so CEO hints to overall 40kg increase.

With a V6

Honestly, I have no appetite, although I am sure it'll be ballisticly fast, but increased weight, V6 ilo V8 and long term battery maintenance (who cares you could say, anyway it's good practice to have warranty in place - if battery is covered: what's the current status of P1s and warranty on battery?)

RBT0

1,540 posts

126 months

Thursday 27th August 2020
quotequote all
When I was at McBrum for servicing a P1 was on the bench, battery needed replacement, £20k+

Where's the warranty 0_0

LotusJas

1,345 posts

238 months

Thursday 27th August 2020
quotequote all
More like £100k including labour, to replace P1 battery!

But the new hybrid McLaren will be nothing like that of course. Not that I want one.

r o n n i e

382 posts

183 months

Thursday 27th August 2020
quotequote all
Will be interesting to see how hybrid battery technology performs and maintains on low mileage cars in the real world.

I don’t think many laferraris and P1s are doing the same kind of mileage as your Honda civics; would not envisage the new hybrid macs doing so either.

How many of us have had battery issues from not driving our supercars regularly enough? I certainly have across the supercar marques.

RBT0

1,540 posts

126 months

Thursday 27th August 2020
quotequote all
I've heard few times of P1s needing battery replacement.

Btw do not compare the 12v Li On with the 48V MHEV battery....

Cheib

23,744 posts

182 months

Thursday 27th August 2020
quotequote all
There’s something about P1’s having to be plugged in all the time otherwise you have to replace the battery. I actually remember a piece on SSO’s blog that he sold his P1 because it was kept at a house in an area where there wasn’t certainly of power supply.

But I mean who really needs a faster and heavier car ?

RBT0

1,540 posts

126 months

Thursday 27th August 2020
quotequote all
Cheib said:
There’s something about P1’s having to be plugged in all the time otherwise you have to replace the battery. I actually remember a piece on SSO’s blog that he sold his P1 because it was kept at a house in an area where there wasn’t certainly of power supply.

But I mean who really needs a faster and heavier car ?
Exactly, who needs a faster and heavier car? Not even sure if it’s going to be more enjoyable on track?

r o n n i e

382 posts

183 months

Thursday 27th August 2020
quotequote all
RBT0 said:
I've heard few times of P1s needing battery replacement.

Btw do not compare the 12v Li On with the 48V MHEV battery....
The battery tech is obvious different for the 12v that powers audio system, small electrical, etc; versus the hybrid battery.

That said in real life all batteries are negatively impacted by inactivity.

I think a lot of Toyota drivers were being advised to leave their petrol engine on for 60 minutes a week to keep their hybrids ticking over whilst not being driven as regularly during lockdown.

WCZ

10,801 posts

201 months

Friday 28th August 2020
quotequote all
RBT0 said:
I've heard few times of P1s needing battery replacement.

Btw do not compare the 12v Li On with the 48V MHEV battery....
La Ferrari is £200k inc labour

daft cars imo

LotusJas

1,345 posts

238 months

Saturday 29th August 2020
quotequote all
I truly think supercars of this generation (before they go hybrid) will be the best that such cars will ever be - to drive.

The hybrids will be faster and more powerful of course, but also heavier.

Taking an extreme example, have 'you' driven a Taycan Turbo S. Truly awful in cornering and braking, and this car is the best of electrics. And it's all due to its massive weight. (Tesla is worse, albeit slightly lighter.)

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

61 months

Saturday 29th August 2020
quotequote all
LotusJas said:
I truly think supercars of this generation (before they go hybrid) will be the best that such cars will ever be - to drive.

The hybrids will be faster and more powerful of course, but also heavier.

Taking an extreme example, have 'you' driven a Taycan Turbo S. Truly awful in cornering and braking, and this car is the best of electrics. And it's all due to its massive weight. (Tesla is worse, albeit slightly lighter.)
Yea, at present, but as Moore's Law takes affect, batteries will be much smaller and lighter. The electric cars of the not too distant future will be epic.


Ferruccio

1,840 posts

126 months

Saturday 29th August 2020
quotequote all
MAC 720S said:
LotusJas said:
I truly think supercars of this generation (before they go hybrid) will be the best that such cars will ever be - to drive.

The hybrids will be faster and more powerful of course, but also heavier.

Taking an extreme example, have 'you' driven a Taycan Turbo S. Truly awful in cornering and braking, and this car is the best of electrics. And it's all due to its massive weight. (Tesla is worse, albeit slightly lighter.)
Yea, at present, but as Moore's Law takes affect, batteries will be much smaller and lighter. The electric cars of the not too distant future will be epic.

Moore’s law applies to microchips, not batteries.
Improvements in battery technology have been glacially slow too date.

WilliamWaiver

439 posts

52 months

Saturday 29th August 2020
quotequote all
Electric is already old technology.
Hydrogen is on its way and the real future

carspath

856 posts

184 months

Sunday 30th August 2020
quotequote all
William waive .... I agree that hydrogen is a promising fuel source .

But I think that you will find that Hydrogen fuel cells are a subset of electrical propulsion systems for cars .

Compressed hydrogen is combined with atmospheric oxygen within the car to produce electricity , which then produces the power and torque to move the car

Edited by carspath on Sunday 30th August 08:46

Ferruccio

1,840 posts

126 months

Sunday 30th August 2020
quotequote all
carspath said:
William waive .... I agree that hydrogen is a promising fuel source .

But I think that you will find that Hydrogen fuel cells are a subset of electrical propulsion systems for cars .

Compressed hydrogen is combined with atmospheric oxygen within the car to produce electricity , which then produces the power and torque to move the car

Edited by carspath on Sunday 30th August 08:46
Sure but no batteries.

My understanding is that both Honda and Toyota see hydrogen as potentially the best way forward.

ANOpax

920 posts

173 months

Sunday 30th August 2020
quotequote all
Fuel cells make perfect sense. The refuelling infrastructure is already in place (garage forecourts). The energy density is high enough and governments can continue to tax it as ‘transport fuel’.

The only thing stopping widespread adoption is the cost of the fuel cell.

IMHO, history will see dry cell powered cars as nothing more than a footnote in the evolution of the electric car.

As an aside, anyone who thinks that Moore’s law applies to dry cells knows very little about computers and even less about chemistry.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

61 months

Sunday 30th August 2020
quotequote all
Ferruccio said:
Moore’s law applies to microchips, not batteries.
Improvements in battery technology have been glacially slow too date.
I know, I was generalising about how technology is rapidly advancing.

12pack

1,594 posts

175 months

Sunday 30th August 2020
quotequote all
WilliamWaiver said:
Electric is already old technology.
Hydrogen is on its way and the real future
It isn’t. Hydrogen production requires methane to start with, a large amount of energy to split it to get H2 and ends with CO2 as a by product. And then you have to transport it.

Battery tech is old, but the reason we have viable EVs now is the use of microchips and software to manage AC-DC conversion, DC-DC power management and temperature control of the old tech batteries. And this has led to lots of work to increase the power density of batteries.

A long way to go for them to match the power density of dirty petrol, but then the actual propulsion energy usage is far more efficient. All that heat and the sound that we love - that’s wasted energy that the electrics put to the wheels instead.

Mac720s is correct. Not exactly Moore’s Law, but we will have higher power density batteries in a few years, that can sit in a T shape in the centre, replacing the heavy engine/gearbox/fuel tank, like in Formula E.


Edited by 12pack on Sunday 30th August 15:42

Sway

29,282 posts

201 months

Sunday 30th August 2020
quotequote all
MAC 720S said:
Ferruccio said:
Moore’s law applies to microchips, not batteries.
Improvements in battery technology have been glacially slow too date.
I know, I was generalising about how technology is rapidly advancing.
Unfortunately, it really isn't...

The chemistry has remained pretty much as known and understood for a very long time - what's happened in recent years is the use of that chemistry has been done better (cooling, power management, cell balancing and configuration, etc.) to get more out of it.

The fundamental issues remain the same - and will continue to until there's a step change in the chemistry. I believe the next evolution (which will be a huge leap) is to using aluminium instead of lithium...