McLaren, Aston, Ferrari - state of business affairs

McLaren, Aston, Ferrari - state of business affairs

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Discussion

EK993

Original Poster:

1,946 posts

258 months

Saturday 25th April 2020
quotequote all
I haven’t watched the latest JayEm video with the clickbait McLaren bankrupt title - mainly because I feel he drones on and on and his accent sounds pompous and grates on my nerves so not sure what his final conclusion was.

I did however come across this very recent article on state of affairs for McLaren, Aston and Ferrari. Thought it was very well written, based on factual data points and balanced in its view. Thought others would enjoy reading it too

https://karenable.com/aston-martin-ferrari-mclaren...

jayemm89

4,132 posts

137 months

Saturday 25th April 2020
quotequote all
EK993 said:
I haven’t watched the latest JayEm video with the clickbait McLaren bankrupt title - mainly because I feel he drones on and on and his accent sounds pompous and grates on my nerves so not sure what his final conclusion was.
I don't want to spoil it, but the ending was a big dance number, lot of showgirls involved, really great, honestly the best video on YouTube.

The biggest issue that article faces, as with any look at companies like these - is how are companies counting "cars sold".

We *assume* they mean customers who bought or took delivery of cars. In reality, many of these companies count any vehicle passed to a dealer as sold.

It has happened with a number of different companies in the past, Lotus being one example, Aston being another - vehicles pumped out in the hope that they'll make the books look good. The problem is, when those cars fail to sell, the company then needs to discount them beyond belief to create sales which ultimately causes more harm than good.

anonymous-user

61 months

Saturday 25th April 2020
quotequote all
jayemm89 said:
I don't want to spoil it, but the ending was a big dance number, lot of showgirls involved, really great, honestly the best video on YouTube.

The biggest issue that article faces, as with any look at companies like these - is how are companies counting "cars sold".

We *assume* they mean customers who bought or took delivery of cars. In reality, many of these companies count any vehicle passed to a dealer as sold.

It has happened with a number of different companies in the past, Lotus being one example, Aston being another - vehicles pumped out in the hope that they'll make the books look good. The problem is, when those cars fail to sell, the company then needs to discount them beyond belief to create sales which ultimately causes more harm than good.
And you say you don't promote your YT channel of PH. Whilst you may not provide a direct link to the channel, you jump at every opportunity to respond, keeping the thread alive. It is subliminal advertising of your channel.

andrew

10,089 posts

199 months

Saturday 25th April 2020
quotequote all
MAC 720S said:
jayemm89 said:
I don't want to spoil it, but the ending was a big dance number, lot of showgirls involved, really great, honestly the best video on YouTube.

The biggest issue that article faces, as with any look at companies like these - is how are companies counting "cars sold".

We *assume* they mean customers who bought or took delivery of cars. In reality, many of these companies count any vehicle passed to a dealer as sold.

It has happened with a number of different companies in the past, Lotus being one example, Aston being another - vehicles pumped out in the hope that they'll make the books look good. The problem is, when those cars fail to sell, the company then needs to discount them beyond belief to create sales which ultimately causes more harm than good.
And you say you don't promote your YT channel of PH. Whilst you may not provide a direct link to the channel, you jump at every opportunity to respond, keeping the thread alive. It is subliminal advertising of your channel.
a tad ironic coming from someone with so many posts promoting his facebook group removed smile

Lee Jones Jnr

1,724 posts

177 months

Saturday 25th April 2020
quotequote all
Ferrari are healthy
Aston Martin will find investment or be bought but they will survive
McLaren will continue to mine immeasurable wealth and cash reserves from who knows where the money ever came from to begin with

Lee Jones Jnr

1,724 posts

177 months

Saturday 25th April 2020
quotequote all
jayemm89 said:
I don't want to spoil it, but the ending was a big dance number, lot of showgirls involved, really great, honestly the best video on YouTube.

The biggest issue that article faces, as with any look at companies like these - is how are companies counting "cars sold".

We *assume* they mean customers who bought or took delivery of cars. In reality, many of these companies count any vehicle passed to a dealer as sold.

It has happened with a number of different companies in the past, Lotus being one example, Aston being another - vehicles pumped out in the hope that they'll make the books look good. The problem is, when those cars fail to sell, the company then needs to discount them beyond belief to create sales which ultimately causes more harm than good.
Fq me Lotus...

EK993

Original Poster:

1,946 posts

258 months

Sunday 26th April 2020
quotequote all
jayemm89 said:
I don't want to spoil it, but the ending was a big dance number, lot of showgirls involved, really great, honestly the best video on YouTube.
Oh well guess I will never find out - my loss.

My guess is that you will be wrong and McLaren will be around for quite some time to come.

MKA29

399 posts

142 months

Sunday 26th April 2020
quotequote all
Lee Jones Jnr said:
Aston Martin will find investment or be bought but they will survive
What makes you so sure?

cuse92

87 posts

163 months

Sunday 26th April 2020
quotequote all
I don't understand trashing something you haven't watched, or the ad hominem attack on his accent. If you don't like it, don't watch it but seems unnecessary to trash him here. Of course it has a clickbait title - that is how YouTubers get paid. There is a shedload of car-based content on YouTube; if I was doing what JayEmm is doing I'd probably have the same approach to help differentiate the product.

I actually did watch it and I thought that he had some good points - he isn't saying they are going bust imminently, but if McLaren doesn't fix a few things it could very well be in trouble within a few years. Which is correct, particularly the way the world is going now. They just needed a bailout from their shareholders. I've watched the entire series he's done on McLaren, including reviews of 4 actual cars, the rants about McManchester, and the Thorney videos, and have really enjoyed them - he clearly rates the cars themselves, and I for one appreciate a bit more detail than the usual car review video.


SSO

1,448 posts

198 months

Sunday 26th April 2020
quotequote all
EK993 said:
I did however come across this very recent article on state of affairs for McLaren, Aston and Ferrari. Thought it was very well written, based on factual data points and balanced in its view. Thought others would enjoy reading it too

https://karenable.com/aston-martin-ferrari-mclaren...
Thank you

mitch_

1,282 posts

231 months

Sunday 26th April 2020
quotequote all
jayemm89 said:
EK993 said:
I haven’t watched the latest JayEm video with the clickbait McLaren bankrupt title - mainly because I feel he drones on and on and his accent sounds pompous and grates on my nerves so not sure what his final conclusion was.
I don't want to spoil it, but the ending was a big dance number, lot of showgirls involved, really great, honestly the best video on YouTube.

The biggest issue that article faces, as with any look at companies like these - is how are companies counting "cars sold".

We *assume* they mean customers who bought or took delivery of cars. In reality, many of these companies count any vehicle passed to a dealer as sold.

It has happened with a number of different companies in the past, Lotus being one example, Aston being another - vehicles pumped out in the hope that they'll make the books look good. The problem is, when those cars fail to sell, the company then needs to discount them beyond belief to create sales which ultimately causes more harm than good.
As far as I am aware, having spent my working life in the motor industry, all manufacturers treat cars as sold as soon as they are invoices. Whether that be to a dealer, a non-affiliated funding company or a leasing company.

That it doesn’t provide the data that you want isn’t really their problem. Once they’re invoiced they’re gone.

Not trying to be picky but I think you reference Lotus too often. Can’t say it always helps as a number of smaller manufacturers like Lotus, Caterham, Morgan have peculiar practices that don’t float in the rest of the industry.

jayemm89

4,132 posts

137 months

Sunday 26th April 2020
quotequote all
I reference Lotus a lot particularly when it comes to McLaren because the parallels are amazing. That extends to both the company, and the cars

mcl570

96 posts

85 months

Monday 27th April 2020
quotequote all
I am sure Mumtalakat (Majority shareholders of McLaren, based in Bahrain) will be funding McLaren for years to come. Extremely wealthy with a huge passion for the brand.

Cheib

23,744 posts

182 months

Monday 27th April 2020
quotequote all
mitch_ said:
As far as I am aware, having spent my working life in the motor industry, all manufacturers treat cars as sold as soon as they are invoices. Whether that be to a dealer, a non-affiliated funding company or a leasing company.

That it doesn’t provide the data that you want isn’t really their problem. Once they’re invoiced they’re gone.

Not trying to be picky but I think you reference Lotus too often. Can’t say it always helps as a number of smaller manufacturers like Lotus, Caterham, Morgan have peculiar practices that don’t float in the rest of the industry.
That’s true from my knowledge of how things work too. However, where things get a little bit more complicated is with finance subs who have the residual value on cars where they have been sold on products where the owner can “hand the keys back”. I think both McLaren and Aston used deals like this to clear stock in Q4 2019..those kind of deals looked like they were booking a sale now in the knowledge in two years time when the cars almost certainly come back there will be a loss on the residual.

MDL111

7,169 posts

184 months

Monday 27th April 2020
quotequote all
SSO said:
EK993 said:
I did however come across this very recent article on state of affairs for McLaren, Aston and Ferrari. Thought it was very well written, based on factual data points and balanced in its view. Thought others would enjoy reading it too

https://karenable.com/aston-martin-ferrari-mclaren...
Thank you
Yes - as always - very enjoyable, thank you for taking the time to write it

jayemm89

4,132 posts

137 months

Monday 27th April 2020
quotequote all
That article states " McLaren builds cars on a fixed assembly line with the same team building the entire car."

That's plain wrong, isn't it? It certainly wasn't how McLaren explained the production line to me, nor did it look like a team doing everything on the car.

Maybe a misunderstanding of terms

Ferruccio

1,840 posts

126 months

Monday 27th April 2020
quotequote all
mcl570 said:
I am sure Mumtalakat (Majority shareholders of McLaren, based in Bahrain) will be funding McLaren for years to come. Extremely wealthy with a huge passion for the brand.
In the current climate, with the oil price as it is, the Bahrain sovereign wealth fund may find that it has different priorities or at least needs to be seen to have different priorities.
And what will be the projected IRR on further investment in McLaren??

650spider

1,476 posts

178 months

Monday 27th April 2020
quotequote all
In the current climate, the ensuing extended recovery time and most likely change in peoples spending patterns, i would feel confident that it won't just be McLaren and Aston Martin that shall struggle; more than a few car manufacturers shall teeter or fail so not exactly scoop of the month.

Maybe the boyo can make some videos about that, or alternatively, he can keep making videos about McLaren covering the same points again and again each time.

Me? I shall just continue to enjoy having mines in the meantime, and watch videos that are not doom and gloom.

bhp500plus

4 posts

56 months

Monday 27th April 2020
quotequote all
jayemm89 said:
I reference Lotus a lot particularly when it comes to McLaren because the parallels are amazing. That extends to both the company, and the cars
McLaren Automotive made pre tax profits of £265m in 2019. Not sure Lotus ever achieved that.

ralphrj

3,663 posts

198 months

Monday 27th April 2020
quotequote all
bhp500plus said:
McLaren Automotive made pre tax profits of £265m in 2019.
No they didn't. They made £265m EBITDA which is not the same as pre tax profits especially when the you consider just how significant the depreciation and amortisation figures are.