Discussion
Nice chap but not really very scientific. Being fair, he often says "simply my opinion" but it seems to that these cars are too closely matched given the price differential.
I presume the reason you posted Rambo, was to quietly make the point that the 650 is better than the 570. But since the question wasn't being asked, I suspect you are ever so slightly unhappy that the 570 nips too closely at the heels of your car.
Much of the video spends time saying he prefers the 650 because of the noise, the ride quality and the performance. Well, the 650 is a spider so the noise comparison is irrelevant (and in fact, even from the video, the 570 sounds a step better than the 650, which sounds identical to the late model 12C I owned with sports exhaust). The 650 ride quality is due to the Tenneco suspension - often criticised, whereas the suspension in the 570 has been heavily praised by journalists (not saying the 650 is worse, just that some will legitimately prefer the 570 approach), leaving the performance. But when he drove the 570, he remarked repeatedly that the acceleration was unbelievable, so hardly a weakness. The 570 then has the same carbon tub, newer design and, at least to my eyes, a nicer look. And is £100k cheaper.
650 is a great car, but for a long time to come it will remain a victim of the problems any new brand experiences. 570 seems like a great product and I reckon is much more convincing in its sector than is the 650. McLaren have thrown a whole lot more at that car, given its price-point, possibly to the detriment of the car above it, but in the further pursuit of safely establishing the brand as a key player in the sectors it wants/needs to compete in. Just have to face up to it. It is what it is.
I presume the reason you posted Rambo, was to quietly make the point that the 650 is better than the 570. But since the question wasn't being asked, I suspect you are ever so slightly unhappy that the 570 nips too closely at the heels of your car.
Much of the video spends time saying he prefers the 650 because of the noise, the ride quality and the performance. Well, the 650 is a spider so the noise comparison is irrelevant (and in fact, even from the video, the 570 sounds a step better than the 650, which sounds identical to the late model 12C I owned with sports exhaust). The 650 ride quality is due to the Tenneco suspension - often criticised, whereas the suspension in the 570 has been heavily praised by journalists (not saying the 650 is worse, just that some will legitimately prefer the 570 approach), leaving the performance. But when he drove the 570, he remarked repeatedly that the acceleration was unbelievable, so hardly a weakness. The 570 then has the same carbon tub, newer design and, at least to my eyes, a nicer look. And is £100k cheaper.
650 is a great car, but for a long time to come it will remain a victim of the problems any new brand experiences. 570 seems like a great product and I reckon is much more convincing in its sector than is the 650. McLaren have thrown a whole lot more at that car, given its price-point, possibly to the detriment of the car above it, but in the further pursuit of safely establishing the brand as a key player in the sectors it wants/needs to compete in. Just have to face up to it. It is what it is.
Edited by LukeyLikey on Friday 1st April 15:43
LukeyLikey said:
Nice chap but not really very scientific. Being fair, he often says "simply my opinion" but it seems to that these cars are too closely matched given the price differential.
I presume the reason you posted Rambo, was to quietly make the point that the 650 is better than the 570. But since the question wasn't being asked, I suspect you are ever so slightly unhappy that the 570 nips too closely at the heels of your car.
Much of the video spends time saying he prefers the 650 because of the noise, the ride quality and the performance. Well, the 650 is a spider so the noise comparison is irrelevant (and in fact, even from the video, the 570 sounds a step better than the 650, which sounds identical to the late model 12C I owned with sports exhaust). The 650 ride quality is due to the Tenneco suspension - often criticised, whereas the suspension in the 570 has been heavily praised by journalists (not saying the 650 is worse, just that some will legitimately prefer the 570 approach), leaving the performance. But when he drove the 570, he remarked repeatedly that the acceleration was unbelievable, so hardly a weakness. The 570 then has the same carbon tub, newer design and, at least to my eyes, a nicer look. And is £100k cheaper.
650 is a great car, but for a long time to come it will remain a victim of the problems any new brand experiences. 570 seems like a great product and I reckon is much more convincing in its sector than is the 650. McLaren have thrown a whole lot more at that car, given its price-point, possibly to the detriment of the car above it, but in the further pursuit of safely establishing the brand as a key player in the sectors it wants/needs to compete in. Just have to face up to it. It is what it is.
Having never driven a 650S (out of my budget) & only having had limited time in the 570S as this is a car i'm considering buying, the above from what i've read in reviews etc. pretty much sums up my thoughts based on of course limited exposure. The 650S is likely the superior car in many ways but the 570S certainly doesn't come across as it's poorer younger sibling & in fact seems to get very close to offering a better all driving experience on UK roads. I'd of course love to be in a position to be able to afford a 650S, but if i do choose a 570S i don't feel it would leave me wanting.I presume the reason you posted Rambo, was to quietly make the point that the 650 is better than the 570. But since the question wasn't being asked, I suspect you are ever so slightly unhappy that the 570 nips too closely at the heels of your car.
Much of the video spends time saying he prefers the 650 because of the noise, the ride quality and the performance. Well, the 650 is a spider so the noise comparison is irrelevant (and in fact, even from the video, the 570 sounds a step better than the 650, which sounds identical to the late model 12C I owned with sports exhaust). The 650 ride quality is due to the Tenneco suspension - often criticised, whereas the suspension in the 570 has been heavily praised by journalists (not saying the 650 is worse, just that some will legitimately prefer the 570 approach), leaving the performance. But when he drove the 570, he remarked repeatedly that the acceleration was unbelievable, so hardly a weakness. The 570 then has the same carbon tub, newer design and, at least to my eyes, a nicer look. And is £100k cheaper.
650 is a great car, but for a long time to come it will remain a victim of the problems any new brand experiences. 570 seems like a great product and I reckon is much more convincing in its sector than is the 650. McLaren have thrown a whole lot more at that car, given its price-point, possibly to the detriment of the car above it, but in the further pursuit of safely establishing the brand as a key player in the sectors it wants/needs to compete in. Just have to face up to it. It is what it is.
Edited by LukeyLikey on Friday 1st April 15:43
W8PMC said:
Having never driven a 650S (out of my budget) & only having had limited time in the 570S as this is a car i'm considering buying, the above from what i've read in reviews etc. pretty much sums up my thoughts based on of course limited exposure. The 650S is likely the superior car in many ways but the 570S certainly doesn't come across as it's poorer younger sibling & in fact seems to get very close to offering a better all driving experience on UK roads. I'd of course love to be in a position to be able to afford a 650S, but if i do choose a 570S i don't feel it would leave me wanting.
Never driven a 570 but having just done 2.2k miles round the Scottish highlands I'd be amazed if the 570 was better suspension wise around them.The hydraulic system worked very very well, I just cannot see how a solid anti roll bar system would have coped better.
I do think the 570 is a game changer in its market place.
Had there been a spider version when I ordered my 650 I would have bought it.
This week's Autocar has full road test on 570S.... certainly doesn't seem to play second fiddle to the 650S.... optically the 650S may look like better value at a now similar price point as an optioned 570S, but the reality for me is that as a prospective owner, the 570S offers a more convincing prospect, given:
- its just as fast (6.4s to 100mph v 6.3s, and 14.2s to 150mph v 13.9s - both Autocar)
- laps almost as fast, just 0.4s slower on a c68second lap - Autocar)
- will be brand new to your spec with 3yr wty - versus a miley 2yr old car (with forthcoming £3.5k annual renewals)
- it has a glovebox (!!) & more spacious feeling interior
- reviews indicate, and indeed Mclaren have pitched the car, as a more fun machine to drive
- its just as fast (6.4s to 100mph v 6.3s, and 14.2s to 150mph v 13.9s - both Autocar)
- laps almost as fast, just 0.4s slower on a c68second lap - Autocar)
- will be brand new to your spec with 3yr wty - versus a miley 2yr old car (with forthcoming £3.5k annual renewals)
- it has a glovebox (!!) & more spacious feeling interior
- reviews indicate, and indeed Mclaren have pitched the car, as a more fun machine to drive
This thread is really boring.
So tedious reading everybody justifying their choice.
It's the sort of thread done to death on PH.........................
Some things are fairly obvious;
- You can't compare the price of a new car to the price of a used car. Even if they are roughly the same purchase price, some want new, some happy for someone else to have taken some of the depreciation hit.
- No matter what people say, the 570/540 IS a lesser car in all areas, hence the price! No active aero/suspension, less power. This is the whole point of it! It's being pitched at a different level to what the 650s was.
- The reality is that what the 570s lacks over the 650s is negligible to most people, I'm no racing driver and wouldn't notice the few hundreth's of a second it's behind the 650s, it's still a McLaren!
- Looks are subjective.
Personally, I love the 570s and nearly ordered one but it's the price I couldn't get around. I sat in one with the space fabric and after sitting in a 650s with the alcantara, the 570s felt positively low rent. I couldn't order one in minimal spec, I'd have to load it up which would put it at circa £170k. The past performance in depreciation of the 650s & 12c concerned me.........if it followed them, it would be under £100k in three years time. Maybe, the overs for the 675LT is indicative of people coming round to the brand now though and that future cars (the 570s included) will fall back into line with normal depreciation rather than dropping off a cliff. In the mean time I bought a 12c which should remain fairly stable for the meantime, may even straight swap it in a year or two for a 570s if their values cross paths
So tedious reading everybody justifying their choice.
It's the sort of thread done to death on PH.........................
Some things are fairly obvious;
- You can't compare the price of a new car to the price of a used car. Even if they are roughly the same purchase price, some want new, some happy for someone else to have taken some of the depreciation hit.
- No matter what people say, the 570/540 IS a lesser car in all areas, hence the price! No active aero/suspension, less power. This is the whole point of it! It's being pitched at a different level to what the 650s was.
- The reality is that what the 570s lacks over the 650s is negligible to most people, I'm no racing driver and wouldn't notice the few hundreth's of a second it's behind the 650s, it's still a McLaren!
- Looks are subjective.
Personally, I love the 570s and nearly ordered one but it's the price I couldn't get around. I sat in one with the space fabric and after sitting in a 650s with the alcantara, the 570s felt positively low rent. I couldn't order one in minimal spec, I'd have to load it up which would put it at circa £170k. The past performance in depreciation of the 650s & 12c concerned me.........if it followed them, it would be under £100k in three years time. Maybe, the overs for the 675LT is indicative of people coming round to the brand now though and that future cars (the 570s included) will fall back into line with normal depreciation rather than dropping off a cliff. In the mean time I bought a 12c which should remain fairly stable for the meantime, may even straight swap it in a year or two for a 570s if their values cross paths
Sarnie said:
This thread is really boring.
So tedious reading everybody justifying their choice.
It's the sort of thread done to death on PH.........................
Some things are fairly obvious;
- You can't compare the price of a new car to the price of a used car. Even if they are roughly the same purchase price, some want new, some happy for someone else to have taken some of the depreciation hit.
- No matter what people say, the 570/540 IS a lesser car in all areas, hence the price! No active aero/suspension, less power. This is the whole point of it! It's being pitched at a different level to what the 650s was.
- The reality is that what the 570s lacks over the 650s is negligible to most people, I'm no racing driver and wouldn't notice the few hundreth's of a second it's behind the 650s, it's still a McLaren!
- Looks are subjective.
Personally, I love the 570s and nearly ordered one but it's the price I couldn't get around. I sat in one with the space fabric and after sitting in a 650s with the alcantara, the 570s felt positively low rent. I couldn't order one in minimal spec, I'd have to load it up which would put it at circa £170k. The past performance in depreciation of the 650s & 12c concerned me.........if it followed them, it would be under £100k in three years time. Maybe, the overs for the 675LT is indicative of people coming round to the brand now though and that future cars (the 570s included) will fall back into line with normal depreciation rather than dropping off a cliff. In the mean time I bought a 12c which should remain fairly stable for the meantime, may even straight swap it in a year or two for a 570s if their values cross paths
I find that interesting as i found the interior of the 570S to be far more modern & to a degree more luxurious than the 650S. That said i can't recall if the interior of the 570S was optioned & the 650S standard. Is the standard 570S interior fabric as i'm sure it was leather?So tedious reading everybody justifying their choice.
It's the sort of thread done to death on PH.........................
Some things are fairly obvious;
- You can't compare the price of a new car to the price of a used car. Even if they are roughly the same purchase price, some want new, some happy for someone else to have taken some of the depreciation hit.
- No matter what people say, the 570/540 IS a lesser car in all areas, hence the price! No active aero/suspension, less power. This is the whole point of it! It's being pitched at a different level to what the 650s was.
- The reality is that what the 570s lacks over the 650s is negligible to most people, I'm no racing driver and wouldn't notice the few hundreth's of a second it's behind the 650s, it's still a McLaren!
- Looks are subjective.
Personally, I love the 570s and nearly ordered one but it's the price I couldn't get around. I sat in one with the space fabric and after sitting in a 650s with the alcantara, the 570s felt positively low rent. I couldn't order one in minimal spec, I'd have to load it up which would put it at circa £170k. The past performance in depreciation of the 650s & 12c concerned me.........if it followed them, it would be under £100k in three years time. Maybe, the overs for the 675LT is indicative of people coming round to the brand now though and that future cars (the 570s included) will fall back into line with normal depreciation rather than dropping off a cliff. In the mean time I bought a 12c which should remain fairly stable for the meantime, may even straight swap it in a year or two for a 570s if their values cross paths
Also as i'm not a fan of these over priced trinkets, if i choose the 570S it will be fairly standard with i think no more than £6k in options & that's enough as the standard car i found to be wanting for very little, although of course lesser spec'd than the 991 & R8. Stereo needed an uplift, reversing camera i felt important & a couple of other bits but that for me was enough. Horses for course though as folk will no doubt want to bling the car up with lots of Carbon goodies.
Has anyone seen the 570s advert on TV?? What is this all about, and when did you last see Ferrari or Lamborghini advertising their new car on TV? Does make you wonder just exactly how many they are aiming to sell.....So it's toast to residuals and anyone who can be a bit patient will pick up a massive discount once the order book has been built.
Both the 12c and 650s will suffer as a result of this. It reminds me of the property market in 2007 - someone trying to sell his newish apartment when the is a building boom, no one wants your 2 year old apartment when developers are offering massive discounts and incentives on a brand new or "off plan".
Both the 12c and 650s will suffer as a result of this. It reminds me of the property market in 2007 - someone trying to sell his newish apartment when the is a building boom, no one wants your 2 year old apartment when developers are offering massive discounts and incentives on a brand new or "off plan".
W8PMC said:
I find that interesting as i found the interior of the 570S to be far more modern & to a degree more luxurious than the 650S. That said i can't recall if the interior of the 570S was optioned & the 650S standard. Is the standard 570S interior fabric as i'm sure it was leather?
Also as i'm not a fan of these over priced trinkets, if i choose the 570S it will be fairly standard with i think no more than £6k in options & that's enough as the standard car i found to be wanting for very little, although of course lesser spec'd than the 991 & R8. Stereo needed an uplift, reversing camera i felt important & a couple of other bits but that for me was enough. Horses for course though as folk will no doubt want to bling the car up with lots of Carbon goodies.
The 570 has a full leather interior - including the dash - as standard. I cannot see why anyone feels they would HAVE to spec it to £170k.Also as i'm not a fan of these over priced trinkets, if i choose the 570S it will be fairly standard with i think no more than £6k in options & that's enough as the standard car i found to be wanting for very little, although of course lesser spec'd than the 991 & R8. Stereo needed an uplift, reversing camera i felt important & a couple of other bits but that for me was enough. Horses for course though as folk will no doubt want to bling the car up with lots of Carbon goodies.
IMHO you only need to spend about £6-10k in options to get a very desirable spec - lift, parking camera, upgraded wheels (and possible a little internal carbon and a special colour if you want it personalised).
It would be useful if OPs who link to articles or videos state the reason they do so. It would make the subsequent discussion far more relevant.
TP321 said:
Has anyone seen the 570s advert on TV?? What is this all about, and when did you last see Ferrari or Lamborghini advertising their new car on TV? Does make you wonder just exactly how many they are aiming to sell.....So it's toast to residuals and anyone who can be a bit patient will pick up a massive discount once the order book has been built.
Both the 12c and 650s will suffer as a result of this. It reminds me of the property market in 2007 - someone trying to sell his newish apartment when the is a building boom, no one wants your 2 year old apartment when developers are offering massive discounts and incentives on a brand new or "off plan".
I cancelled my 540 order due to a house purchase BUT the residual issue was was always a little niggle at the back of my mind.Both the 12c and 650s will suffer as a result of this. It reminds me of the property market in 2007 - someone trying to sell his newish apartment when the is a building boom, no one wants your 2 year old apartment when developers are offering massive discounts and incentives on a brand new or "off plan".
W8PMC said:
I find that interesting as i found the interior of the 570S to be far more modern & to a degree more luxurious than the 650S. That said i can't recall if the interior of the 570S was optioned & the 650S standard. Is the standard 570S interior fabric as i'm sure it was leather?
Also as i'm not a fan of these over priced trinkets, if i choose the 570S it will be fairly standard with i think no more than £6k in options & that's enough as the standard car i found to be wanting for very little, although of course lesser spec'd than the 991 & R8. Stereo needed an uplift, reversing camera i felt important & a couple of other bits but that for me was enough. Horses for course though as folk will no doubt want to bling the car up with lots of Carbon goodies.
Design wise, it's going to "look" more modern, it's the most recent design but it certainly felt very low rent. Materials felt very cheap, smooth plasticy faux leather. The difference in purchase price has to have gone somewhere..........Also as i'm not a fan of these over priced trinkets, if i choose the 570S it will be fairly standard with i think no more than £6k in options & that's enough as the standard car i found to be wanting for very little, although of course lesser spec'd than the 991 & R8. Stereo needed an uplift, reversing camera i felt important & a couple of other bits but that for me was enough. Horses for course though as folk will no doubt want to bling the car up with lots of Carbon goodies.
I think the confusion is that a manufacturer usually brings out a car that is superior to the previous model but McLaren started with the 12c, improved it with the 650s but then introduces a new car that is technically an inferior to the previous two.......
Sarnie said:
Design wise, it's going to "look" more modern, it's the most recent design but it certainly felt very low rent. Materials felt very cheap, smooth plasticy faux leather. The difference in purchase price has to have gone somewhere..........
I think the confusion is that a manufacturer usually brings out a car that is superior to the previous model but McLaren started with the 12c, improved it with the 650s but then introduces a new car that is technically an inferior to the previous two.......
I agree. It reminded me of a cheap American rental car inside. Clearly a lot of cost cutting measures have gone into the product to get it at the top end sports car price pointI think the confusion is that a manufacturer usually brings out a car that is superior to the previous model but McLaren started with the 12c, improved it with the 650s but then introduces a new car that is technically an inferior to the previous two.......
RamboLambo said:
I agree. It reminded me of a cheap American rental car inside. Clearly a lot of cost cutting measures have gone into the product to get it at the top end sports car price point
None of this matters....when the 570s Spider comes out next year, with discounts and incentives, it's game over for the 650 and 12c. Edited by TP321 on Saturday 2nd April 11:06
LukeyLikey said:
Nice chap but not really very scientific. Being fair, he often says "simply my opinion" but it seems to that these cars are too closely matched given the price differential.
I presume the reason you posted Rambo, was to quietly make the point that the 650 is better than the 570. But since the question wasn't being asked, I suspect you are ever so slightly unhappy that the 570 nips too closely at the heels of your car.
Much of the video spends time saying he prefers the 650 because of the noise, the ride quality and the performance. Well, the 650 is a spider so the noise comparison is irrelevant (and in fact, even from the video, the 570 sounds a step better than the 650, which sounds identical to the late model 12C I owned with sports exhaust). The 650 ride quality is due to the Tenneco suspension - often criticised, whereas the suspension in the 570 has been heavily praised by journalists (not saying the 650 is worse, just that some will legitimately prefer the 570 approach), leaving the performance. But when he drove the 570, he remarked repeatedly that the acceleration was unbelievable, so hardly a weakness. The 570 then has the same carbon tub, newer design and, at least to my eyes, a nicer look. And is £100k cheaper.
650 is a great car, but for a long time to come it will remain a victim of the problems any new brand experiences. 570 seems like a great product and I reckon is much more convincing in its sector than is the 650. McLaren have thrown a whole lot more at that car, given its price-point, possibly to the detriment of the car above it, but in the further pursuit of safely establishing the brand as a key player in the sectors it wants/needs to compete in. Just have to face up to it. It is what it is.
Assuming makes an ass out of u and not me I presume the reason you posted Rambo, was to quietly make the point that the 650 is better than the 570. But since the question wasn't being asked, I suspect you are ever so slightly unhappy that the 570 nips too closely at the heels of your car.
Much of the video spends time saying he prefers the 650 because of the noise, the ride quality and the performance. Well, the 650 is a spider so the noise comparison is irrelevant (and in fact, even from the video, the 570 sounds a step better than the 650, which sounds identical to the late model 12C I owned with sports exhaust). The 650 ride quality is due to the Tenneco suspension - often criticised, whereas the suspension in the 570 has been heavily praised by journalists (not saying the 650 is worse, just that some will legitimately prefer the 570 approach), leaving the performance. But when he drove the 570, he remarked repeatedly that the acceleration was unbelievable, so hardly a weakness. The 570 then has the same carbon tub, newer design and, at least to my eyes, a nicer look. And is £100k cheaper.
650 is a great car, but for a long time to come it will remain a victim of the problems any new brand experiences. 570 seems like a great product and I reckon is much more convincing in its sector than is the 650. McLaren have thrown a whole lot more at that car, given its price-point, possibly to the detriment of the car above it, but in the further pursuit of safely establishing the brand as a key player in the sectors it wants/needs to compete in. Just have to face up to it. It is what it is.
Edited by LukeyLikey on Friday 1st April 15:43
RamboLambo said:
I agree. It reminded me of a cheap American rental car inside. Clearly a lot of cost cutting measures have gone into the product to get it at the top end sports car price point
I think that's a bit excessive though I agree it is obvious where the costs savings have been made. However there also advantages such as the tub reshape for easier egress and ingress.I think it's been covered above, both brilliant cars and you can't easily compare new with used (though I did
)They are quite different cars in some very key ways: the suspension on the 12c/650 is a masterpiece and always gets commented on very early on in every test drive/review and shouldn't be underestimated here. If someone isn't interested in the suspension and active aero differences then IMHO the 570 should definitely be the way to go - 650ps vs 570ps it's important in the real world and it has the dihedral doors.
For me, these aspects, more so the suspension is up there in my top 3 defining factors of a 12c/650 but I can understand for others it isn't.
For me, these aspects, more so the suspension is up there in my top 3 defining factors of a 12c/650 but I can understand for others it isn't.
Gassing Station | McLaren | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff