How Fragile are McLarens?
Discussion
Interested in buying a 12C but i'm put off by how fragile(?) they are.
The more i read about them the more times i see "don't buy one without a MCL warranty", "they cost ££££'s to repair", so obviously they're very fragile - right?
This must be the case because a warranty costs £3,500 /yr, yet the average annual mileage of all 48 12C/650s between 2011-2014 advertised on PH is only 3,400 miles per year, which is pretty low for what is supposed to be a well engineered product.
When i raised it with the MCL salesman he said the warranty is provided by an outside company and hasn't changed since the 12C was launched. He claimed that at the time the car was unproven and expected to do typical 911 annual mileages. Now with some history to go on, annual mileages are far less than were predicted and the cars have proven to be incredibly reliable (he would say that when he's trying to sell me a car wouldn't he). He went on to say that the warranty cost should be much lower and that it 'might' come down in price.
Strange how one minute the salesman is telling me to only buy from a MCL main dealer as the warranty is essential, then when i say i'm concerned that they must be very fragile he does a U-turn and virtually tells me that a warranty is hardly necessary as they're so reliable.
Like so often is the case, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
The more i read about them the more times i see "don't buy one without a MCL warranty", "they cost ££££'s to repair", so obviously they're very fragile - right?
This must be the case because a warranty costs £3,500 /yr, yet the average annual mileage of all 48 12C/650s between 2011-2014 advertised on PH is only 3,400 miles per year, which is pretty low for what is supposed to be a well engineered product.
When i raised it with the MCL salesman he said the warranty is provided by an outside company and hasn't changed since the 12C was launched. He claimed that at the time the car was unproven and expected to do typical 911 annual mileages. Now with some history to go on, annual mileages are far less than were predicted and the cars have proven to be incredibly reliable (he would say that when he's trying to sell me a car wouldn't he). He went on to say that the warranty cost should be much lower and that it 'might' come down in price.
Strange how one minute the salesman is telling me to only buy from a MCL main dealer as the warranty is essential, then when i say i'm concerned that they must be very fragile he does a U-turn and virtually tells me that a warranty is hardly necessary as they're so reliable.
Like so often is the case, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
I guess warranties are priced at what the vendor thinks the market will bare, then adjusted for cost history.
Most on this and other forums seem to have few problems. McLaren are pretty obsessive about engineering design and quality. No problems with mine. It seems exceptionally well put together. Indeed it has no cabin squeaks, rattles or chatter despite over 5k miles. The warranty solution for brake squeal (ceramics do need to be warm) is not just a lube of the pad back plates, but a tuning fork device to kill the resonance that causes the squeaking.
No exotic is going to give Ford a run for money in the maintenance stakes. But I'm not expecting anything to fall of my 650S Spider - unless it's down to me not spotting a pothole, lazy policeman or debris in the road.
Hth
Brital
Most on this and other forums seem to have few problems. McLaren are pretty obsessive about engineering design and quality. No problems with mine. It seems exceptionally well put together. Indeed it has no cabin squeaks, rattles or chatter despite over 5k miles. The warranty solution for brake squeal (ceramics do need to be warm) is not just a lube of the pad back plates, but a tuning fork device to kill the resonance that causes the squeaking.
No exotic is going to give Ford a run for money in the maintenance stakes. But I'm not expecting anything to fall of my 650S Spider - unless it's down to me not spotting a pothole, lazy policeman or debris in the road.
Hth
Brital
You could probably start a poll on the issues that owners have.
Buying any used car (or new car for that matter) carries risk that we are buying a lemon. The warranty is a partial insurance policy against that. With a used car you may feel there is more risk or less depending on your thought process. On the one hand it's used and could be abused, on the other you may take the view that it's had the gremlins ironed out and, if no big issues to date, it's a good one. Obviously it's still a young brand and product so who's to know if there are any other issues. Who knows the CF tub might rot (I clearly have no idea!
)
Only the Mclaren dealers can put the 'Mclaren' warranty on the car, so a bit of a USP for them and hence the push I think.
For me, spending £100k plus, the addition of a 2-3% insurance fee seems pretty reasonable, especially in the first year of ownership when you're getting to know the car. Which, if you buy from a dealer, is included in the price. The Mclaren dealer cars seem competitively priced against the independents, although difficult to compare as no two cars on sale have the exact same spec/age/mileage.
There have been plenty of cars with good mileage on them for sale over the past 6 months or so, and there seems to be a school of thought that usage and miles is good for them. Of course that will impact the sale price as with any other car.
As always, the only real advice is to do your homework, check the car and its history and agree a price that works for you. If this means that you feel you need the warranty or a £20k contingency fund in the bank just in case, do whatever works for you. Just make sure it's reflected in the sale price.
The good news is there's plenty of info here and on Mclife to help with that.
Good luck and caveat emptor and all that.
Buying any used car (or new car for that matter) carries risk that we are buying a lemon. The warranty is a partial insurance policy against that. With a used car you may feel there is more risk or less depending on your thought process. On the one hand it's used and could be abused, on the other you may take the view that it's had the gremlins ironed out and, if no big issues to date, it's a good one. Obviously it's still a young brand and product so who's to know if there are any other issues. Who knows the CF tub might rot (I clearly have no idea!
)Only the Mclaren dealers can put the 'Mclaren' warranty on the car, so a bit of a USP for them and hence the push I think.
For me, spending £100k plus, the addition of a 2-3% insurance fee seems pretty reasonable, especially in the first year of ownership when you're getting to know the car. Which, if you buy from a dealer, is included in the price. The Mclaren dealer cars seem competitively priced against the independents, although difficult to compare as no two cars on sale have the exact same spec/age/mileage.
There have been plenty of cars with good mileage on them for sale over the past 6 months or so, and there seems to be a school of thought that usage and miles is good for them. Of course that will impact the sale price as with any other car.
As always, the only real advice is to do your homework, check the car and its history and agree a price that works for you. If this means that you feel you need the warranty or a £20k contingency fund in the bank just in case, do whatever works for you. Just make sure it's reflected in the sale price.
The good news is there's plenty of info here and on Mclife to help with that.
Good luck and caveat emptor and all that.
When I was last at Spa I was amazed to see Isaldiri's fairly well used car strutting it's stuff with the rest.
When I asked him about reliability, he pointed me in the direction of a Time Attack MP412C that was in an adjacent garage with over 20,000 all track miles.
And the carbon chassis had not rotted
I actually spoke with one of the instructors and he said that McLaren had built them for this ... which I guess makes some sense.
As an aside, I also took a very close look at an MP412C rolling chassis in McLaren Manchester. I have to say, the quality was quite beautiful ...
When I asked him about reliability, he pointed me in the direction of a Time Attack MP412C that was in an adjacent garage with over 20,000 all track miles.
And the carbon chassis had not rotted
I actually spoke with one of the instructors and he said that McLaren had built them for this ... which I guess makes some sense.
As an aside, I also took a very close look at an MP412C rolling chassis in McLaren Manchester. I have to say, the quality was quite beautiful ...
Edited by ChrisW. on Saturday 19th December 22:15
The 650S is the most solid and best quality supercar I've ever owned.
Cannot fault the build quality and 1 year in not a single issue. They are far less fragile than the Italian equivalents IMHO.
Parts and labour are supercar expensive as you would expect so with very little history of reliability and expensive components that could go wrong a warranty does give you peace of mind but not necessarily essential.
Early and higher mileage MP4 12C's do not seem to have had any major short comings or issues with reliability.
Personally I would put the £3,500 into a war chest
Cannot fault the build quality and 1 year in not a single issue. They are far less fragile than the Italian equivalents IMHO.
Parts and labour are supercar expensive as you would expect so with very little history of reliability and expensive components that could go wrong a warranty does give you peace of mind but not necessarily essential.
Early and higher mileage MP4 12C's do not seem to have had any major short comings or issues with reliability.
Personally I would put the £3,500 into a war chest
It's a tricky one. At risk of sounding like a copout, i think the answer is -it depends as far as the warranty is concerned at least.
The lack of mileage on cars is really the norm on £100+k sports cars though surely rather than anything to do with engineering quality. How many high mileage cars of that type does one usually see, apart from perhaps some 991 turbo s? The idea that any Mclaren was going to do 911 C2/C4S type miles was never going to happen. There is however no doubt that some 12c's have been...let's just say quite difficult and those tend to be the visible ones as owners (quite rightly) voice frustration. That coupled with the well flagged early electronic issues (long resolved) has left I suppose a rather negative impression of the cars reliability. Parts are as well rather expensive.
The time attack car Chris mentioned above incidentially is one that Mclaren Ascot tell me is pretty much their most solid car and the owner mainly uses the car for getting to tracks and on track with 20+k miles and he is very quick. I have done 12 trackdays this year of which weather has allowed about 10 of them to be reasonably hard driven, if still far below the car's capability due to my lack of ability and bravery and have replaced one tyre pressure sensor only outside of regular fluid changes after every 3-4 days, total mileage 26k. A friend of mine has sold his car recently for an incoming 675 and it has 32k miles. Fragile...? You tell me.
The warranty is priced more or less bang in line with that on a 458 extended power warranty or whatever it is called (surprise that...). To turn around your question - Would you (OP) be prepared to buy a 458 without a warranty?
The lack of mileage on cars is really the norm on £100+k sports cars though surely rather than anything to do with engineering quality. How many high mileage cars of that type does one usually see, apart from perhaps some 991 turbo s? The idea that any Mclaren was going to do 911 C2/C4S type miles was never going to happen. There is however no doubt that some 12c's have been...let's just say quite difficult and those tend to be the visible ones as owners (quite rightly) voice frustration. That coupled with the well flagged early electronic issues (long resolved) has left I suppose a rather negative impression of the cars reliability. Parts are as well rather expensive.
The time attack car Chris mentioned above incidentially is one that Mclaren Ascot tell me is pretty much their most solid car and the owner mainly uses the car for getting to tracks and on track with 20+k miles and he is very quick. I have done 12 trackdays this year of which weather has allowed about 10 of them to be reasonably hard driven, if still far below the car's capability due to my lack of ability and bravery and have replaced one tyre pressure sensor only outside of regular fluid changes after every 3-4 days, total mileage 26k. A friend of mine has sold his car recently for an incoming 675 and it has 32k miles. Fragile...? You tell me.
The warranty is priced more or less bang in line with that on a 458 extended power warranty or whatever it is called (surprise that...). To turn around your question - Would you (OP) be prepared to buy a 458 without a warranty?
Always useful
My view on insurance is that if I can afford to pay the consequences, I will self-insure.
I have always done this with my race car and often with my track cars --- though when a 964RS N-GT reaches the heady double six figures in value and we know that hub carriers etc. must age, it's a tough call.
Hence a McLaren must be a more exciting prospect
As I've probably said, I have a friend who did have a Hub Carrier fail in his N-GT into Malmady (just after the Kemel straight) --- he was very lucky.
But the car was 22 years old and had been well used ...
My view on insurance is that if I can afford to pay the consequences, I will self-insure.
I have always done this with my race car and often with my track cars --- though when a 964RS N-GT reaches the heady double six figures in value and we know that hub carriers etc. must age, it's a tough call.
Hence a McLaren must be a more exciting prospect
As I've probably said, I have a friend who did have a Hub Carrier fail in his N-GT into Malmady (just after the Kemel straight) --- he was very lucky.
But the car was 22 years old and had been well used ...
Edited by ChrisW. on Saturday 19th December 22:24
Edited by ChrisW. on Saturday 19th December 22:24
Can't really add much to what has been said other than mine has been fine in the brief period (6 months) so far.
Early cars had annoying electrical issues with doors and the infamous sat nav infotainment system (iris).
I have been reading on McLaren life (US) that some have had gearbox issues which is big money to fix however have not seen that here for some reason.
My car has the factory warranty until July, I will service April and get them to have a good look over the car, my thoughts at the moment are that I will renew the warranty this time round and then see how it goes after that.
To summarise I have not read anything other than parts prices that should put you off buying one.
Early cars had annoying electrical issues with doors and the infamous sat nav infotainment system (iris).
I have been reading on McLaren life (US) that some have had gearbox issues which is big money to fix however have not seen that here for some reason.
My car has the factory warranty until July, I will service April and get them to have a good look over the car, my thoughts at the moment are that I will renew the warranty this time round and then see how it goes after that.
To summarise I have not read anything other than parts prices that should put you off buying one.
.
,i remember folks saying that about the carrera gt tub! mclaren invented /designed the first f1 tub 20 plus years ago.
I have been benchmarking the quality of a maca against the cgt,its the only car out there that comes close,and a v8 should be reliable,with all the torque it produces the only potential week point would be the gearbox,of which gearboxes do not like torque.But so far this does not seem to be a issue to worry about.
SELON said:
You could probably start a poll on the issues that owners have.
Buying any used car (or new car for that matter) carries risk that we are buying a lemon. The warranty is a partial insurance policy against that. With a used car you may feel there is more risk or less depending on your thought process. On the one hand it's used and could be abused, on the other you may take the view that it's had the gremlins ironed out and, if no big issues to date, it's a good one. Obviously it's still a young brand and product so who's to know if there are any other issues. Who knows the CF tub might rot (I clearly have no idea! )
Only the Mclaren dealers can put the 'Mclaren' warranty on the car, so a bit of a USP for them and hence the push I think.
For me, spending £100k plus, the addition of a 2-3% insurance fee seems pretty reasonable, especially in the first year of ownership when you're getting to know the car. Which, if you buy from a dealer, is included in the price. The Mclaren dealer cars seem competitively priced against the independents, although difficult to compare as no two cars on sale have the exact same spec/age/mileage.
There have been plenty of cars with good mileage on them for sale over the past 6 months or so, and there seems to be a school of thought that usage and miles is good for them. Of course that will impact the sale price as with any other car.
As always, the only real advice is to do your homework, check the car and its history and agree a price that works for you. If this means that you feel you need the warranty or a £20k contingency fund in the bank just in case, do whatever works for you. Just make sure it's reflected in the sale price.
The good news is there's plenty of info here and on Mclife to help with that.
Good luck and caveat emptor and all that.
Carbon fibre tub rottingBuying any used car (or new car for that matter) carries risk that we are buying a lemon. The warranty is a partial insurance policy against that. With a used car you may feel there is more risk or less depending on your thought process. On the one hand it's used and could be abused, on the other you may take the view that it's had the gremlins ironed out and, if no big issues to date, it's a good one. Obviously it's still a young brand and product so who's to know if there are any other issues. Who knows the CF tub might rot (I clearly have no idea!
)Only the Mclaren dealers can put the 'Mclaren' warranty on the car, so a bit of a USP for them and hence the push I think.
For me, spending £100k plus, the addition of a 2-3% insurance fee seems pretty reasonable, especially in the first year of ownership when you're getting to know the car. Which, if you buy from a dealer, is included in the price. The Mclaren dealer cars seem competitively priced against the independents, although difficult to compare as no two cars on sale have the exact same spec/age/mileage.
There have been plenty of cars with good mileage on them for sale over the past 6 months or so, and there seems to be a school of thought that usage and miles is good for them. Of course that will impact the sale price as with any other car.
As always, the only real advice is to do your homework, check the car and its history and agree a price that works for you. If this means that you feel you need the warranty or a £20k contingency fund in the bank just in case, do whatever works for you. Just make sure it's reflected in the sale price.
The good news is there's plenty of info here and on Mclife to help with that.
Good luck and caveat emptor and all that.
,i remember folks saying that about the carrera gt tub! mclaren invented /designed the first f1 tub 20 plus years ago.I have been benchmarking the quality of a maca against the cgt,its the only car out there that comes close,and a v8 should be reliable,with all the torque it produces the only potential week point would be the gearbox,of which gearboxes do not like torque.But so far this does not seem to be a issue to worry about.
Yellow491 said:
Carbon fibre tub rotting,i remember folks saying that about the carrera gt tub! mclaren invented /designed the first f1 tub 20 plus years ago.
I have been benchmarking the quality of a maca against the cgt,its the only car out there that comes close,and a v8 should be reliable,with all the torque it produces the only potential week point would be the gearbox,of which gearboxes do not like torque.But so far this does not seem to be a issue to worry about.
Good for you if you think the gearboxes are not a worry.,i remember folks saying that about the carrera gt tub! mclaren invented /designed the first f1 tub 20 plus years ago.I have been benchmarking the quality of a maca against the cgt,its the only car out there that comes close,and a v8 should be reliable,with all the torque it produces the only potential week point would be the gearbox,of which gearboxes do not like torque.But so far this does not seem to be a issue to worry about.
And with all due respect, the mclarens are great cars but the build quality of them (F1 and maybe P1 apart) is nowhere close to that of a cgt.
isaldiri said:
Good for you if you think the gearboxes are not a worry.
And with all due respect, the mclarens are great cars but the build quality of them (F1 and maybe P1 apart) is nowhere close to that of a cgt.
So whats not so close,read my post again if you are confused,i said close to not better!And with all due respect, the mclarens are great cars but the build quality of them (F1 and maybe P1 apart) is nowhere close to that of a cgt.
How many cars have had box issues out of all made so far?
It's very interesting comparing these cars to a CGT.
I so nearly bought a 50k mile Fiance Yellow CGT ... and bought my MP4 12c because it was the nearest thing that I could find at a useable price .... and so far as I can see, it still is.
And I love the idea of McLaren building their cars to be a real force in the market ...
On the reliability stakes --- I'll do my best to stay lucky
I so nearly bought a 50k mile Fiance Yellow CGT ... and bought my MP4 12c because it was the nearest thing that I could find at a useable price .... and so far as I can see, it still is.
And I love the idea of McLaren building their cars to be a real force in the market ...
On the reliability stakes --- I'll do my best to stay lucky
Gassing Station | McLaren | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff