Discussion
Am looking at getting a 570 and was quite suprised that I could get a 6 month old 650 spider for the same money, £175k!
I'll use the car for about 5 track days a year, Spa and Ring et al and then the odd Sunday run and maybe the odd sprint.
Be interested in anyone's thoughts on this?
The Spider I've found was £250k 1000 miles ago!!! And there are loads around at the £180 level.
I'll use the car for about 5 track days a year, Spa and Ring et al and then the odd Sunday run and maybe the odd sprint.
Be interested in anyone's thoughts on this?
The Spider I've found was £250k 1000 miles ago!!! And there are loads around at the £180 level.
At that price with a list of £250K it's a no brainer in my opinion, I just have a feeling the 650s won't last much longer in production with its replacement coming in at £280K and moving further upmarket, the time will come when the unloved 650s will become desirable due to its relatively limited numbers, especially coupes, all IMO
Good luck both are cracking cars
Good luck both are cracking cars
Edited by aztec on Sunday 8th November 17:50
650S with polycarbonate panels, active aero and hydraulic suspension, extra power and torque is a supercar bargain at the moment IMHO.
There is an artificial glut of cars at the moment due to winter and end of production run out and this is reflected in current prices which will harden again summer 2016 when there will be no cars around
Don't get me wrong the 570S is an incredible sports car that will really shake up the 911, Aston Martin and R8 marketplace but its built to a price.
Given the choice between a true supercar with 1,000 miles, 6 months old and already depreciated £70k off list price its also a no brainer for me - 650s all day long
There is an artificial glut of cars at the moment due to winter and end of production run out and this is reflected in current prices which will harden again summer 2016 when there will be no cars around
Don't get me wrong the 570S is an incredible sports car that will really shake up the 911, Aston Martin and R8 marketplace but its built to a price.
Given the choice between a true supercar with 1,000 miles, 6 months old and already depreciated £70k off list price its also a no brainer for me - 650s all day long
RamboLambo said:
650S with polycarbonate panels, active aero and hydraulic suspension, extra power and torque is a supercar bargain at the moment IMHO.
There is an artificial glut of cars at the moment due to winter and end of production run out and this is reflected in current prices which will harden again summer 2016 when there will be no cars around
Don't get me wrong the 570S is an incredible sports car that will really shake up the 911, Aston Martin and R8 marketplace but its built to a price.
Given the choice between a true supercar with 1,000 miles, 6 months old and already depreciated £70k off list price its also a no brainer for me - 650s all day long
What he said There is an artificial glut of cars at the moment due to winter and end of production run out and this is reflected in current prices which will harden again summer 2016 when there will be no cars around
Don't get me wrong the 570S is an incredible sports car that will really shake up the 911, Aston Martin and R8 marketplace but its built to a price.
Given the choice between a true supercar with 1,000 miles, 6 months old and already depreciated £70k off list price its also a no brainer for me - 650s all day long
Plus, given you want to track it, this is a no-brainer decision, the 650S is a supercar, it is more track focused than the 570S.
If you can stretch to it - I would advise talking to McLaren dealers to see what final stock they have as bargains on 0 miles cars are possible. You may find you can get a brand new car not very far off prices of used.
NickOrangeCars said:
RamboLambo said:
650S with polycarbonate panels, active aero and hydraulic suspension, extra power and torque is a supercar bargain at the moment IMHO.
There is an artificial glut of cars at the moment due to winter and end of production run out and this is reflected in current prices which will harden again summer 2016 when there will be no cars around
Don't get me wrong the 570S is an incredible sports car that will really shake up the 911, Aston Martin and R8 marketplace but its built to a price.
Given the choice between a true supercar with 1,000 miles, 6 months old and already depreciated £70k off list price its also a no brainer for me - 650s all day long
What he said There is an artificial glut of cars at the moment due to winter and end of production run out and this is reflected in current prices which will harden again summer 2016 when there will be no cars around
Don't get me wrong the 570S is an incredible sports car that will really shake up the 911, Aston Martin and R8 marketplace but its built to a price.
Given the choice between a true supercar with 1,000 miles, 6 months old and already depreciated £70k off list price its also a no brainer for me - 650s all day long
Plus, given you want to track it, this is a no-brainer decision, the 650S is a supercar, it is more track focused than the 570S.
If you can stretch to it - I would advise talking to McLaren dealers to see what final stock they have as bargains on 0 miles cars are possible. You may find you can get a brand new car not very far off prices of used.
As for being built to price, come on that is just plain silly, which do you think is cheaper to build polycarbonate on the 650S an all aluminium body on the 570S?
The cost reduction on the 570S has come by increased efficiency in the build process as admitted by McLaren themselves, the carbon tub is a lot cheaper than it used to be. The dropping of the expensive interlinked suspension plus the lack of active aero.
The state of future values for the 650S I think will very much depend on how sucessfull the 570S is. Its replacement will have to go upmarket to build a bigger gap. I expect it will compete with the Aventadore and the Ferrari F12
Streetrod said:
The state of future values for the 650S I think will very much depend on how sucessfull the 570S is. Its replacement will have to go upmarket to build a bigger gap. I expect it will compete with the Aventadore and the Ferrari F12
In what way Street?Obviously the 650S will never challenge an Aventadore in jaw drop but other than that I think the Mclaren surpasses both of those cars in real world terms.
br d said:
Streetrod said:
The state of future values for the 650S I think will very much depend on how sucessfull the 570S is. Its replacement will have to go upmarket to build a bigger gap. I expect it will compete with the Aventadore and the Ferrari F12
In what way Street?Obviously the 650S will never challenge an Aventadore in jaw drop but other than that I think the Mclaren surpasses both of those cars in real world terms.
The 650S is coming close to its sell by date and is due for replacement. The word is that McLaren’s replacement will move upmarket not only to build a bigger gap to the 570S but to compete with the F12’s and the Aventadore of this world. By getting into this market they can also be more radical design and be able to trickle down the tech and development costs spent on the P1 to produce a hybrid in this sector so giving them a USP in this space
If they do this effectively they are abandoning the 488 and Huracan market segment. Strategically is this the right way to go, to be honest I am not sure. If they want to compete properly with the likes of the F12 personally I think they need to expand the current V8 to at least a V10 configuration plus the hybrid element which in theory should not be that expensive. This will give them a platform on which to build the next P1 replacement. I don’t think they can continue to rehash the V8 for much longer if they want to build credibility.
By the way I could be way of the mark here but it appears to make sense
The only thing I would say is that £175k is a massively specced 570. Surely a better comparison, if just looking at the financial differences, would be around £160k-165k for a 570?
Then again, maybe £32,000 is what most people are optioning on a 570 (£143,000 list) - if so then I agree with what people are saying on here.
Then again, maybe £32,000 is what most people are optioning on a 570 (£143,000 list) - if so then I agree with what people are saying on here.
Streetrod said:
The 650S is coming close to its sell by date and is due for replacement. The word is that McLaren’s replacement will move upmarket not only to build a bigger gap to the 570S but to compete with the F12’s and the Aventadore of this world. By getting into this market they can also be more radical design and be able to trickle down the tech and development costs spent on the P1 to produce a hybrid in this sector so giving them a USP in this space
If they do this effectively they are abandoning the 488 and Huracan market segment. Strategically is this the right way to go, to be honest I am not sure. If they want to compete properly with the likes of the F12 personally I think they need to expand the current V8 to at least a V10 configuration plus the hybrid element which in theory should not be that expensive. This will give them a platform on which to build the next P1 replacement. I don’t think they can continue to rehash the V8 for much longer if they want to build credibility.
Confused by this - I don't think moving up market puts them in-line with Aventador / F12 - the Aventador is yes £300k - but so is a 675LT fully specced, and a 650S is already faster straight line + track than it (if maybe without the drama) - I don't think it is in McLaren's DNA to build something that competes with the Aventador or the F12 (which is a Gran Tourer) - if you move 'up market' in McLaren world that is about driving focus / speed - and I think that puts them in a new bracket inbetween current £200-£250k cars and the hyper cars P1/LaF/918. If they do this effectively they are abandoning the 488 and Huracan market segment. Strategically is this the right way to go, to be honest I am not sure. If they want to compete properly with the likes of the F12 personally I think they need to expand the current V8 to at least a V10 configuration plus the hybrid element which in theory should not be that expensive. This will give them a platform on which to build the next P1 replacement. I don’t think they can continue to rehash the V8 for much longer if they want to build credibility.
My bet would be they will go for Hyper car performance and undercut price so aim for £300-£400k.
Streetrod said:
The 650S is coming close to its sell by date and is due for replacement.
Its only been around for what? 2 years? Seems early to be replacing it. An evolution/facelift/30% new parts/etc in a couple of years perhaps?Streetrod said:
If they want to compete properly with the likes of the F12 personally I think they need to expand the current V8 to at least a V10 configuration plus the hybrid element which in theory should not be that expensive. This will give them a platform on which to build the next P1 replacement. I don’t think they can continue to rehash the V8 for much longer if they want to build credibility.
I agree with this. A second engine is the easiest way to enlarge the spread of their products given they've explored a good portion of the possibilities of their current V8. If it was me I'd consider a 6 below the V8 and/or a 12 above it.If you think about it the 570S is a great platform on which to develop a 650S replacement. The new monocell two does not compromise performance but allows easier assess and more interior space. Plus it would be easy to reinstall the hydraulic cross linked suspension and active aero if need be
The 570S once upgraded to 570LT spec could easily compete performance wise with the current 650S. Add spyder versions and you have a great range of cars spanning the £125K to current 650S price point The V8 should I think be exclusive to this range.
The 675LT is the swansong for the 650S platform and will be superseded at some point
The current V8 is physically a very small engine. Because of its modular type construction enlarging it to say a 5 litre V10 would only add a few cms to its length and cost little in development costs. And as mentioned earlier a next gen Hybrid element could be installed. If Honda can do it in the next NSX I see no reason why McLaren could not as well. If you then installed this into the 650S replacement you could then market it as a hypercar with much more radical styling and extreme performance at the £300k price point so distinguishing it from the super series.
Going forward I think its going to essential that McLaren develops a larger engine like a V10
The 570S once upgraded to 570LT spec could easily compete performance wise with the current 650S. Add spyder versions and you have a great range of cars spanning the £125K to current 650S price point The V8 should I think be exclusive to this range.
The 675LT is the swansong for the 650S platform and will be superseded at some point
The current V8 is physically a very small engine. Because of its modular type construction enlarging it to say a 5 litre V10 would only add a few cms to its length and cost little in development costs. And as mentioned earlier a next gen Hybrid element could be installed. If Honda can do it in the next NSX I see no reason why McLaren could not as well. If you then installed this into the 650S replacement you could then market it as a hypercar with much more radical styling and extreme performance at the £300k price point so distinguishing it from the super series.
Going forward I think its going to essential that McLaren develops a larger engine like a V10
Streetrod said:
The new monocell two does not compromise performance but allows easier assess and more interior space.
I would be so disappointed if the 650 replacement had the same compromise for ease of access. I just love the high sills of the 12C/650. It adds to the fighter jet interior atmosphere. And I am sure save weights.garyhun said:
It will be interesting to see how the next version of Sports Series - the so called 570 GT - plays out too in the total lineup. That's due in 2016, a year before the Spider.
Supposedly more room and luggage capacity for longer European trips.
I have heard of the GT as well. But would it make more sense to have it as a 540 GT ? May be they will offer both I guess.Supposedly more room and luggage capacity for longer European trips.
mb1 said:
garyhun said:
It will be interesting to see how the next version of Sports Series - the so called 570 GT - plays out too in the total lineup. That's due in 2016, a year before the Spider.
Supposedly more room and luggage capacity for longer European trips.
I have heard of the GT as well. But would it make more sense to have it as a 540 GT ? May be they will offer both I guess.Supposedly more room and luggage capacity for longer European trips.
Just not sure that you find a 6 month old car with 1000 miles on the clock for £175,000.
2 year old car with 4000 miles maybe, but a 6 month old car with 100 miles is £190,000.
I own a 650S Spider, but the 570S coupe really is in the sweet spot in terms of value for a new car, but McLaren have let owners of the 650s down by stuffing the dealers with cars which they then discount heavily. Few people will have paid the full asking price. Mine was priced at £247,500 new, but I paid a significant discount to that. People also keep comparing a 650S spider to a 570S coupe when a fairer comparison would be 650S coupe which starts at £20k less than a spider.
To be really like for like, add £17,000 to a 570S coupe to get a 570S Spider = £160,000. Take a £247,500 650S Spider and deduct extras to get like for like and you get to £225,000. Subtract 10% discount which is roughly where they are new with negotiation and you get to £202,500 for a 650S Spider.
So by my back of a fag packet calculation, the real difference is somewhere around £43,000 (202,500 - 160,000) difference like for like.
That seems about right for performance difference etc.
2 year old car with 4000 miles maybe, but a 6 month old car with 100 miles is £190,000.
I own a 650S Spider, but the 570S coupe really is in the sweet spot in terms of value for a new car, but McLaren have let owners of the 650s down by stuffing the dealers with cars which they then discount heavily. Few people will have paid the full asking price. Mine was priced at £247,500 new, but I paid a significant discount to that. People also keep comparing a 650S spider to a 570S coupe when a fairer comparison would be 650S coupe which starts at £20k less than a spider.
To be really like for like, add £17,000 to a 570S coupe to get a 570S Spider = £160,000. Take a £247,500 650S Spider and deduct extras to get like for like and you get to £225,000. Subtract 10% discount which is roughly where they are new with negotiation and you get to £202,500 for a 650S Spider.
So by my back of a fag packet calculation, the real difference is somewhere around £43,000 (202,500 - 160,000) difference like for like.
That seems about right for performance difference etc.
Edited by baypond on Tuesday 10th November 22:18
Edited by baypond on Tuesday 10th November 22:19
NickOrangeCars said:
What he said
Plus, given you want to track it, this is a no-brainer decision, the 650S is a supercar, it is more track focused than the 570S.
If you can stretch to it - I would advise talking to McLaren dealers to see what final stock they have as bargains on 0 miles cars are possible. You may find you can get a brand new car not very far off prices of used.
Why a no brainer, the 570s is a better track car for enjoyment it seems with better feedback.Plus, given you want to track it, this is a no-brainer decision, the 650S is a supercar, it is more track focused than the 570S.
If you can stretch to it - I would advise talking to McLaren dealers to see what final stock they have as bargains on 0 miles cars are possible. You may find you can get a brand new car not very far off prices of used.
I've it's a drivers car over the 650s
So I go reverse to every one as I like a drivers car over a supercar to act drive and would go 570s or wait for a 570lt.
Just to add my two cents to the 570/650S debate.
Following recent positive press on the 570 I called a dealer, paid my £10k and joined the waiting list. June/July build perhaps. I guessed I would be looking at say £160k for the car.
However, I had also noticed some nearly new 650S Spyders at the dealer, well specced, very low miles etc. and around £190k. Certainly a lower delta between 570 and 650S than I had thought.
Next issue is that McLaren pricing for 650S has changed and for MY16 at least, maybe before I don’t know, the Packs offer comparatively good value. For example if you add together the cost of all the individual components of the Sport, Security and Luxury packs you get £22k. The total cost of the packs themselves if specified is £13.4k. Of course it’s not all good news because some of the stuff you wouldn’t necessarily want to pay for but if its “free”....!
Then added into the equation is the fact I don’t really have much use for a 570/650S through the UK winter and don’t particularly want to buy a pre owned £190k 650S and just leave it in the garage for several months.
The upshot is that after some friendly but firm discussions with dealers I have secured a February build 650S Spyder with all the above packs and other bits and pieces. It may be a minority view but it suggests there is still some demand for what the 650S Spyder has to offer.
Following recent positive press on the 570 I called a dealer, paid my £10k and joined the waiting list. June/July build perhaps. I guessed I would be looking at say £160k for the car.
However, I had also noticed some nearly new 650S Spyders at the dealer, well specced, very low miles etc. and around £190k. Certainly a lower delta between 570 and 650S than I had thought.
Next issue is that McLaren pricing for 650S has changed and for MY16 at least, maybe before I don’t know, the Packs offer comparatively good value. For example if you add together the cost of all the individual components of the Sport, Security and Luxury packs you get £22k. The total cost of the packs themselves if specified is £13.4k. Of course it’s not all good news because some of the stuff you wouldn’t necessarily want to pay for but if its “free”....!
Then added into the equation is the fact I don’t really have much use for a 570/650S through the UK winter and don’t particularly want to buy a pre owned £190k 650S and just leave it in the garage for several months.
The upshot is that after some friendly but firm discussions with dealers I have secured a February build 650S Spyder with all the above packs and other bits and pieces. It may be a minority view but it suggests there is still some demand for what the 650S Spyder has to offer.
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