Schoolboy error...
Discussion
...Recently had a test drive of a 12c spider and 650S...
1. Just stunning cars to look at and to drive.
2. Sound was great. Start up and driving. Struggling to understand the negative comments that I've read about this. Not driven a turbo in many years and liked the sounds. Different to a V10 or V12 NA, but no less enjoyable.
3. The drive: of course performance was exceptional, goes without saying really...but the suspension was just unbelievably good. I'm sure it could cross large distances and you'd feel great at the other end.
4. Steering feel was excellent.
5. Plenty of cabin space and a decent size boot for a bit of touring. I'm a big frame and felt comfortable. Pedal position - again worked well for me.
6. And it's a convertible...or a coupe...
7. Didn't play with the infotainment system. I'm saw a USB port and I'm sure it has a radio and probably a cassette player, but not really a big factor, for me, in buying the car.
Overall it's a car that seems to have made no compromises because it is just excellent in all areas that matter (to me).
But does it have enough 'emotion'? This is the question that seems to damn the McLarens in reviews. Yes, Enzo, Ferrari and Lamborghini are more exotic sounding than Bruce or Ron, but then again Fabio Capello has an exotic name, but in reality he is Fabio Hair (I think) and he actually sounds like Mr Bean (and didn't win the World Cup with England). And yes, both cars left me with an emotion: desire. With a massive smile. For a fantastic car.
The question is: which one to go for.
Will be thinking about those for the next few days as there are two other contenders for my affections, and wallet (make that 3 others if you include the wife!).
Indeed it was a very 'expensive' schoolboy error to go for a test drive these machines...
For those that have these cars: you are privileged indeed.
Will ponder a while...
1. Just stunning cars to look at and to drive.
2. Sound was great. Start up and driving. Struggling to understand the negative comments that I've read about this. Not driven a turbo in many years and liked the sounds. Different to a V10 or V12 NA, but no less enjoyable.
3. The drive: of course performance was exceptional, goes without saying really...but the suspension was just unbelievably good. I'm sure it could cross large distances and you'd feel great at the other end.
4. Steering feel was excellent.
5. Plenty of cabin space and a decent size boot for a bit of touring. I'm a big frame and felt comfortable. Pedal position - again worked well for me.
6. And it's a convertible...or a coupe...
7. Didn't play with the infotainment system. I'm saw a USB port and I'm sure it has a radio and probably a cassette player, but not really a big factor, for me, in buying the car.
Overall it's a car that seems to have made no compromises because it is just excellent in all areas that matter (to me).
But does it have enough 'emotion'? This is the question that seems to damn the McLarens in reviews. Yes, Enzo, Ferrari and Lamborghini are more exotic sounding than Bruce or Ron, but then again Fabio Capello has an exotic name, but in reality he is Fabio Hair (I think) and he actually sounds like Mr Bean (and didn't win the World Cup with England). And yes, both cars left me with an emotion: desire. With a massive smile. For a fantastic car.
The question is: which one to go for.
Will be thinking about those for the next few days as there are two other contenders for my affections, and wallet (make that 3 others if you include the wife!).
Indeed it was a very 'expensive' schoolboy error to go for a test drive these machines...
For those that have these cars: you are privileged indeed.
Will ponder a while...
The wife is a 'keeper' as they say 
The other cars in the running are my current Aston (or a Vanquish), which I do love and a Huracan.
The first comparison I am evaluating is between the Huracan or either McClarens.
Seeing a Volcano Red 12C in the flesh - what a beauty. Pics and videos don't do these cars justice. For what it's worth I think the 458 suffers equally in pics - to my eyes at least.
The 650S is more aggressive looking than the 12C but not necessarily better looking. The 650S certainly is more dramatic to look at and competes well with others, like the Huracan, in that respect.
To drive, not much in it for me between the 12C and the 650S on normal roads I think. I will take it as read that the 650S is a much improved car performance wise. I drove the 650S first and I think that was a mistake for me because I was more tentative in it, when I got in the 12C I was that much more familiar and comfortable with the controls. The 12C I drove also had all the performance and Iris upgrades - hw and sw - as well.
I probably need to have another drive of the 650S to experience the performance differences. Which is a nice thought...
Certainly the 650S is more dramatic visually than the 12C and competes in that respect better with the Huracan, if you want that kind of thing.
But as a mid engined super car, the 12C is very pretty and i suspect it will 'age' very well.
The Huracan. Lots of positives - obviously designed inside and out for more 'drama'. Clearly no consideration for storage space (which is, after all, why we buy these cars! )
I feel that either McLaren would give me the performance thrills of a Huracan, but also be much more livable day to day...but do I want to experience the Italian drama and (slightly) more shouty 'look at me' experience that the Huracan would bring? There is a theoretical 'yes' inside me...just need to work out whether that might be a bit too much for me on a long term basis as I plan to keep the car for a while. I realise that both the McLarens will bring a lot of attention as well!
Really glad to have driven all 3. Sadly I can only have one!
The other cars in the running are my current Aston (or a Vanquish), which I do love and a Huracan.
The first comparison I am evaluating is between the Huracan or either McClarens.
Seeing a Volcano Red 12C in the flesh - what a beauty. Pics and videos don't do these cars justice. For what it's worth I think the 458 suffers equally in pics - to my eyes at least.
The 650S is more aggressive looking than the 12C but not necessarily better looking. The 650S certainly is more dramatic to look at and competes well with others, like the Huracan, in that respect.
To drive, not much in it for me between the 12C and the 650S on normal roads I think. I will take it as read that the 650S is a much improved car performance wise. I drove the 650S first and I think that was a mistake for me because I was more tentative in it, when I got in the 12C I was that much more familiar and comfortable with the controls. The 12C I drove also had all the performance and Iris upgrades - hw and sw - as well.
I probably need to have another drive of the 650S to experience the performance differences. Which is a nice thought...
Certainly the 650S is more dramatic visually than the 12C and competes in that respect better with the Huracan, if you want that kind of thing.
But as a mid engined super car, the 12C is very pretty and i suspect it will 'age' very well.
The Huracan. Lots of positives - obviously designed inside and out for more 'drama'. Clearly no consideration for storage space (which is, after all, why we buy these cars!
)I feel that either McLaren would give me the performance thrills of a Huracan, but also be much more livable day to day...but do I want to experience the Italian drama and (slightly) more shouty 'look at me' experience that the Huracan would bring? There is a theoretical 'yes' inside me...just need to work out whether that might be a bit too much for me on a long term basis as I plan to keep the car for a while. I realise that both the McLarens will bring a lot of attention as well!
Really glad to have driven all 3. Sadly I can only have one!
I know what you're saying...I don't want to be changing again in 2-3 years time.
However, I'm not sure that I will be that worried from a looks perspective between the 12C or the other 2. I think that the 12C is a smoother, more elegant design, hence my 'ageless' point. So as a long termer the 12C might be a better option for me (beauty being in the eye of the beholder and all that).
Will be thinking this one through, and will go have a second look at them before decision is made.
What do other owners of both think?
I would imagine this trio are considered a lot together.
I can't get two cars unfortunately so I can't take that option as much as I'd love to!
Another question: has anyone done a tour in theirs ? This is definitely on the agenda for me, so wondering what the car is like after an 8 hour driving day.
Thanks
However, I'm not sure that I will be that worried from a looks perspective between the 12C or the other 2. I think that the 12C is a smoother, more elegant design, hence my 'ageless' point. So as a long termer the 12C might be a better option for me (beauty being in the eye of the beholder and all that).
Will be thinking this one through, and will go have a second look at them before decision is made.
What do other owners of both think?
I would imagine this trio are considered a lot together.
I can't get two cars unfortunately so I can't take that option as much as I'd love to!
Another question: has anyone done a tour in theirs ? This is definitely on the agenda for me, so wondering what the car is like after an 8 hour driving day.
Thanks
SELON said:
The wife is a 'keeper' as they say
The other cars in the running are my current Aston (or a Vanquish), which I do love and a Huracan.
The first comparison I am evaluating is between the Huracan or either McClarens.
Seeing a Volcano Red 12C in the flesh - what a beauty. Pics and videos don't do these cars justice. For what it's worth I think the 458 suffers equally in pics - to my eyes at least.
The 650S is more aggressive looking than the 12C but not necessarily better looking. The 650S certainly is more dramatic to look at and competes well with others, like the Huracan, in that respect.
To drive, not much in it for me between the 12C and the 650S on normal roads I think. I will take it as read that the 650S is a much improved car performance wise. I drove the 650S first and I think that was a mistake for me because I was more tentative in it, when I got in the 12C I was that much more familiar and comfortable with the controls. The 12C I drove also had all the performance and Iris upgrades - hw and sw - as well.
I probably need to have another drive of the 650S to experience the performance differences. Which is a nice thought...
Certainly the 650S is more dramatic visually than the 12C and competes in that respect better with the Huracan, if you want that kind of thing.
But as a mid engined super car, the 12C is very pretty and i suspect it will 'age' very well.
The Huracan. Lots of positives - obviously designed inside and out for more 'drama'. Clearly no consideration for storage space (which is, after all, why we buy these cars! )
I feel that either McLaren would give me the performance thrills of a Huracan, but also be much more livable day to day...but do I want to experience the Italian drama and (slightly) more shouty 'look at me' experience that the Huracan would bring? There is a theoretical 'yes' inside me...just need to work out whether that might be a bit too much for me on a long term basis as I plan to keep the car for a while. I realise that both the McLarens will bring a lot of attention as well!
Really glad to have driven all 3. Sadly I can only have one!
I agree with all of that.The other cars in the running are my current Aston (or a Vanquish), which I do love and a Huracan.
The first comparison I am evaluating is between the Huracan or either McClarens.
Seeing a Volcano Red 12C in the flesh - what a beauty. Pics and videos don't do these cars justice. For what it's worth I think the 458 suffers equally in pics - to my eyes at least.
The 650S is more aggressive looking than the 12C but not necessarily better looking. The 650S certainly is more dramatic to look at and competes well with others, like the Huracan, in that respect.
To drive, not much in it for me between the 12C and the 650S on normal roads I think. I will take it as read that the 650S is a much improved car performance wise. I drove the 650S first and I think that was a mistake for me because I was more tentative in it, when I got in the 12C I was that much more familiar and comfortable with the controls. The 12C I drove also had all the performance and Iris upgrades - hw and sw - as well.
I probably need to have another drive of the 650S to experience the performance differences. Which is a nice thought...
Certainly the 650S is more dramatic visually than the 12C and competes in that respect better with the Huracan, if you want that kind of thing.
But as a mid engined super car, the 12C is very pretty and i suspect it will 'age' very well.
The Huracan. Lots of positives - obviously designed inside and out for more 'drama'. Clearly no consideration for storage space (which is, after all, why we buy these cars!
)I feel that either McLaren would give me the performance thrills of a Huracan, but also be much more livable day to day...but do I want to experience the Italian drama and (slightly) more shouty 'look at me' experience that the Huracan would bring? There is a theoretical 'yes' inside me...just need to work out whether that might be a bit too much for me on a long term basis as I plan to keep the car for a while. I realise that both the McLarens will bring a lot of attention as well!
Really glad to have driven all 3. Sadly I can only have one!
If the Aston becomes a serious contender, speak to Chris at McLaren Ascot, he's just had 5 years with Aston.
I haven't driven the Huracan (Mrs Breadvan discounted it when we saw it at Geneva - too shouty) but I was interested in the TG test saying it lacked 'emotion', I think I've heard that said somewhere else.........
650S v 12C - hmmm, difficult one. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so I don't need to go there.
But driving the 650S was an improvement over the 12C, no question, especially the compliance of the suspension. Everything felt tighter but that could just be that I drove brand new one. I will go through the process of investigating cost-to-change but I suspect it be too much for me.
I've come away thinking the right spec on a 12C could make as much difference as the jump up to a 650S.
As with most things in life, if you can justify the extra cost, the 650S is better without doubt, if not, rest assured you still get a pukka Super-Series McLaren with the cheaper 12C.
Was in the same position as yourself pre xmas and drove 3 out of the 4 cars you mentioned.
Vanquish was simply not a consideration for me but I had previously driven a V12 Vantage S and passed on that luckily.
Thought the Huracan was the best looking car ( well from the front and side ) not so sure about the back and would only want one with a glass engine cover but then its only a coupe at the moment. Was not your typical Lambo, seems even more sterilised by the germans and I didn't like the drive nor the interior. I'm sure this will be addressed on later models and a lightweight special edition spider is more style later down the line maybe
Went to buy a 12C spider and got within £5k of a deal on one but then drove the 650S spider.
Spotted the differences immediately in terms of the emotional feel and sound of the 650S, no doubt helped by the hefty 500lb/ft of torque. The car felt so much more "alive" IMHO and I wasn't even driving that hard as TBH I didn't want to buy it and go £80k ( 50% )over my original budget.
As you say "school boy " error. I actually walked away on the day to mull over the situation as I didn't want to make a rash decision but by 9.00 am the next morning I knew it had to be the 650S spider
Given what you have said above about the 650S test drive I would suggest you at least go and have another 30 minute drive in the car and if its between the 2 McLarens drive the 12C first this time and the 650S afterwards as it will help you appreciate the differences
Absolutely loving my 650S spider, so glad I didn't go with the 458 spider or 458 Speciale that were also in contention.
Its such an accomplished all round car with amazing suspension, active aero and performance in abundance.
I like to change my cars regularly but within 3 months I know this is another keeper and no there is not another car on the market ( or coming to the market in the near future 488/570S ) that in 2 years time I would think I wish I had bought that.
McLaren are doing such a good job at the moment the memories of the flawed MP4 12C launch and knock on effect are being undone at last.
From what I understand there are about 3,500 12C's worldwide and will be around 2,500 650S (by the time production is finished as sold only build slots on 650S now ) so these cars are relatively low volumes in the scale of things ( same as 430 Scuderia and 458 Speciale ) and future demand can only increase as the brand grows and attracts new customers. Supply and demand - You do the maths but it can only mean one thing in my mind but I'm embargoed to say it
12C/650S either way you won't regret it !
Vanquish was simply not a consideration for me but I had previously driven a V12 Vantage S and passed on that luckily.
Thought the Huracan was the best looking car ( well from the front and side ) not so sure about the back and would only want one with a glass engine cover but then its only a coupe at the moment. Was not your typical Lambo, seems even more sterilised by the germans and I didn't like the drive nor the interior. I'm sure this will be addressed on later models and a lightweight special edition spider is more style later down the line maybe
Went to buy a 12C spider and got within £5k of a deal on one but then drove the 650S spider.
Spotted the differences immediately in terms of the emotional feel and sound of the 650S, no doubt helped by the hefty 500lb/ft of torque. The car felt so much more "alive" IMHO and I wasn't even driving that hard as TBH I didn't want to buy it and go £80k ( 50% )over my original budget.
As you say "school boy " error. I actually walked away on the day to mull over the situation as I didn't want to make a rash decision but by 9.00 am the next morning I knew it had to be the 650S spider
Given what you have said above about the 650S test drive I would suggest you at least go and have another 30 minute drive in the car and if its between the 2 McLarens drive the 12C first this time and the 650S afterwards as it will help you appreciate the differences
Absolutely loving my 650S spider, so glad I didn't go with the 458 spider or 458 Speciale that were also in contention.
Its such an accomplished all round car with amazing suspension, active aero and performance in abundance.
I like to change my cars regularly but within 3 months I know this is another keeper and no there is not another car on the market ( or coming to the market in the near future 488/570S ) that in 2 years time I would think I wish I had bought that.
McLaren are doing such a good job at the moment the memories of the flawed MP4 12C launch and knock on effect are being undone at last.
From what I understand there are about 3,500 12C's worldwide and will be around 2,500 650S (by the time production is finished as sold only build slots on 650S now ) so these cars are relatively low volumes in the scale of things ( same as 430 Scuderia and 458 Speciale ) and future demand can only increase as the brand grows and attracts new customers. Supply and demand - You do the maths but it can only mean one thing in my mind but I'm embargoed to say it
12C/650S either way you won't regret it !
I made exactly the same comment to the salesman Breadvan, the 650S did feel 'tighter' or more taut in comparison to the 12C I drove. I put that just down to the newness of the car. As GRB said, I need to re-do the drive in the 12C-650S order.
Such a chore!
Will probably have to throw the wife into the deal for the 650S though.
Interesting point you make about the 458 and sales volumes GRB. Apparently there are a few hundred 12Cs in the UK.
To Andrews point about pulling up at the lights in 2 years time...if I get the Huracan and a new R8 pulls up alongside, with newer engine and tech, will I be having that very thought? Never thought about the Huracan in that way before!
One of the pitfulls of sharing tech between cars at this level!
Be very interested if any of you have been touring in either 12C or 650S?
Such a chore!
Will probably have to throw the wife into the deal for the 650S though.
Interesting point you make about the 458 and sales volumes GRB. Apparently there are a few hundred 12Cs in the UK.
To Andrews point about pulling up at the lights in 2 years time...if I get the Huracan and a new R8 pulls up alongside, with newer engine and tech, will I be having that very thought? Never thought about the Huracan in that way before!
One of the pitfulls of sharing tech between cars at this level!
Be very interested if any of you have been touring in either 12C or 650S?
From my own test drives, the 650s feels tighter than the 12c. It did not feel any faster in normal use or even fast road use.
You want to be careful about the specs when comparing cars. For example seats and sports exhaust. My 12c has the sports exhaust and I drove a 650 without sports exhaust. My car felt a lot more lively and sounded such much better. So there is more difference in the actual options than 12c/650.
I have done quite a few long trip and use the car daily. It is smooth and a real pleasure to drive. My only complain could be the front turning vanes that can touch on the way down from speed bump.
Speaking of Astons. I went from a V12V to the 12c and for me they are very different cars. The Aston is not in the same league.
The McLaren is and feel so much more special. The cockpit is so driver focussed. Performance wise, there is no comparison. The Aston has a lot of character and in terms of image, this remains such a classy motor.
Lamborghini are again different because of the image. If you can or want to live with the flashy image then it is a strong contender.
You want to be careful about the specs when comparing cars. For example seats and sports exhaust. My 12c has the sports exhaust and I drove a 650 without sports exhaust. My car felt a lot more lively and sounded such much better. So there is more difference in the actual options than 12c/650.
I have done quite a few long trip and use the car daily. It is smooth and a real pleasure to drive. My only complain could be the front turning vanes that can touch on the way down from speed bump.
Speaking of Astons. I went from a V12V to the 12c and for me they are very different cars. The Aston is not in the same league.
The McLaren is and feel so much more special. The cockpit is so driver focussed. Performance wise, there is no comparison. The Aston has a lot of character and in terms of image, this remains such a classy motor.
Lamborghini are again different because of the image. If you can or want to live with the flashy image then it is a strong contender.
Ah, that makes sense. I believe the 12C had the sports exhaust.
I can imagine it's a great long distance driver as well. That ride is just something else.
Thanks for the tips.
The Aston has bags of character and I can't really fault it at all but i got thinking about a Vanquish and then to looking at other cars in the same price range...
I can imagine it's a great long distance driver as well. That ride is just something else.
Thanks for the tips.
The Aston has bags of character and I can't really fault it at all but i got thinking about a Vanquish and then to looking at other cars in the same price range...
The 12C and 650S I drove both had the sports exhaust option, which I think is a must, and the 650S was slightly louder with lots of low end burble and better pops and bangs when pressing on. Sound is part of the experience for me and the 650S sounded better to my ears. You also need to be in sport/track Performance mode. If you are in normal mode it will be quieter
Its not Ferrari N/a V8 good but for a turbo car its the best sound I've heard.
A few of my neighbours have commented that they prefer the sound to the 430 Scuderia I had. I wouldn't go that far
Its not Ferrari N/a V8 good but for a turbo car its the best sound I've heard.
A few of my neighbours have commented that they prefer the sound to the 430 Scuderia I had. I wouldn't go that far
SELON said:
I made exactly the same comment to the salesman Breadvan, the 650S did feel 'tighter' or more taut in comparison to the 12C I drove. I put that just down to the newness of the car.
Be very interested if any of you have been touring in either 12C or 650S?
The 650 feels bolted together better than the 12c (especially vs earlier VIN cars), plus the front suspension change has removed the tub thump. It's the one real advantage of the 650 over the 12c for me. The added torque is the other obvious difference but the 12c is more than quick enough on the road so that's neither here nor there.Be very interested if any of you have been touring in either 12C or 650S?
Touring in the 12c is a pleasure, done 10 hours in the car a few times driving through Europe without any issue. It's the great strength of the 12c i think as it can get you from point a to b in remarkable comfort and yet when you want to be silly have some fun on a good road it'll do that bloody well too.
Unfortunately, more than enough people look at you even in a black 12c so in one of the brighter colours you'll get a shouty enough car as well if that's a consideration....
Don't know if it applies to 12C or even if it's sports exhaust specific but you can adjust the sound coming into the cabin via settings so you can have full noise inside in normal settings or quietest setting on track mode. I was told that this does not alter the sound from the outside i.e exhaust loudness is not changed via some valve actuation and only the amount of noise piped into the cabin
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