Importance of Countach original colour?

Importance of Countach original colour?

Author
Discussion

bermy boy

Original Poster:

43 posts

187 months

Monday 7th September 2020
quotequote all
I've recently bought a RHD 5000QV which doesn't have the rear wing fitted. Its currently painted red but not its original red. As part of the deal I got a respray thrown in. I'm considering a moderately rare colour, Acapulco blu. I'm also considering having a re-trim, changing from its very 1980s white leather to some sort of tan. Undecided on silver wheels or some sort of light bronze.

My question is this: how important is originality in colour - inside and outside - for a Countach? In Ferrari world, originality seems to be a BIG DEAL but my sense is that Lambo owners/buyers don't really care as much.

Any views welcome!

Ferruccio

1,840 posts

127 months

Monday 7th September 2020
quotequote all
To some it matters, a lot.
To others it doesn’t.

It’s your car.

If you’re keeping it, do what you want.
If you want to maximise the number of people you can sell it to in due course, keep it original.

That blue is a great colour.

As regards the leather - it’s an 80s Countach. It is what it is.
Mine’s white and blue inside. The first owner was a Manchester hairdresser..........

When I got my car, the wheels were white. I was told that no car left the factory with white wheels. I went back to the original silver.


Edited by Ferruccio on Monday 7th September 11:50

carspath

857 posts

185 months

Monday 7th September 2020
quotequote all
Congratulations on getting an icon .
They are spectacular
What Chassis number is yours ?



As Ferruccio says do whatever will bring you most joy .
You will not want to sell it , so forget resale value etc .... so totally immaterial .

.

Let me tell you my take for Chassis 12399 ------ keep it absolutely original
If I were in your boots ( P7R's preferably , but difficult to source -- place your order in good time ) , i'd revert back to the original body colour for the body and wheels , and refurbish the interior rather than change it .


I say this not for resale value , but because these cars are part of motoring history .
1998 cars were made between 1973 and 1990 , and they are revered throughout the world .


I have just come off a 3/4 hour long telephone call with a motoring publisher , and when we came to discuss the Countach he was in absolute awe -- this from a man who deals with all manner of vintage , classic , and current cars .


So you now have temporary custodianship ( because hopefully the car will outlive both you and me ) of a Countach , and I would want to preserve it in as original a state as possible .


But that is just me , so do what you like , but dont let resale value cloud your thinking ... that would be a real shame.

In very early1988 , the list price for a QV was about £86k .
Chassis 12399's first and only other owner was offered £250k for it 8 weeks after he picked it up , and rejected this offer as being too low ( he had had 4 previous Countachs )
In 1989 , the car was only valued at about £50k


If Greta and XR have their way, you wont be able to give it away when they come into power .

So once again , congratulations , welcome , and however much you try , you cant fail to enjoy Countach ownership .---it's so much more than a car .

rat rod

4,997 posts

73 months

Tuesday 8th September 2020
quotequote all
bermy boy said:
I've recently bought a RHD 5000QV which doesn't have the rear wing fitted. Its currently painted red but not its original red. As part of the deal I got a respray thrown in. I'm considering a moderately rare colour, Acapulco blu. I'm also considering having a re-trim, changing from its very 1980s white leather to some sort of tan. Undecided on silver wheels or some sort of light bronze.

My question is this: how important is originality in colour - inside and outside - for a Countach? In Ferrari world, originality seems to be a BIG DEAL but my sense is that Lambo owners/buyers don't really care as much.

Any views welcome!
My LP 400 s was on it's 3rd colour when i bought it ,didn't put me off buying it .
Never liked the colour in pearl yellow, i think it was a Murcielago colour . Was always going to change it but never got round to it , didn't think a fourth change would make a lot difference .
The original colour was gold which i dislike even more than the yellow but with the R.H.D 400 S being one of the rarest Countach's i think i would now put it back to original being a very 80's colour..
I would only repeat what Ferruccio and Carspath have already said .
Love Carspath comment "It's so much more than a car"

Bunsen

32 posts

107 months

Tuesday 8th September 2020
quotequote all
Check out the one for sale at DK Engineering , Its Acapulco Blue, Beautiful . This gives you an idea of what your car will look like!
I've painted two Lambo's …….no impact on price or the amount of interest when i sold them

Craig

1,181 posts

292 months

Tuesday 8th September 2020
quotequote all
Did you buy the ex Mark Hart car? If so you bought a lovely example with the most fastidious of owners.

I'm not a huge fan of the red he changed it to as it wasn't a period Countach colour. I'm biased as I used to own the DK Acapulco QV and it is indeed a lovely colour. However, I would never change the interior leather as it's impossible to recreate the original pattern - just refurbish if required. This may be a problem if you don't like white leather! I think it's very 80s and suits the car. You could go with white exterior for the complete 80s look.

Personally I think it's fine to change the exterior colour as so many classic Lambo's have done so with no adverse impact on values - these cars are 40 years old after all. I'd always stick with a period correct colour though.

Good luck!


Loose_Cannon

1,593 posts

261 months

Tuesday 8th September 2020
quotequote all
rat rod said:
My LP 400 s was on it's 3rd colour when i bought it ,didn't put me off buying it .
Never liked the colour in pearl yellow, i think it was a Murcielago colour . Was always going to change it but never got round to it , didn't think a fourth change would make a lot difference .
The original colour was gold which i dislike even more than the yellow but with the R.H.D 400 S being one of the rarest Countach's i think i would now put it back to original being a very 80's colour..
This one? Gold then black then yellow? II would love to see this put back to original.


yzr500

229 posts

111 months

Tuesday 8th September 2020
quotequote all
Don't think it would matter the factory paint was very poor and the alloy panels cracked by the intake pods anyway.

85Carrera

3,503 posts

245 months

Tuesday 8th September 2020
quotequote all
Nice problem to have!

It’s your car, I do it whatever colour you want.

Value is enough for you/the buyer to change colour on sale/purchase if required

rat rod

4,997 posts

73 months

Tuesday 8th September 2020
quotequote all
Loose_Cannon said:
rat rod said:
My LP 400 s was on it's 3rd colour when i bought it ,didn't put me off buying it .
Never liked the colour in pearl yellow, i think it was a Murcielago colour . Was always going to change it but never got round to it , didn't think a fourth change would make a lot difference .
The original colour was gold which i dislike even more than the yellow but with the R.H.D 400 S being one of the rarest Countach's i think i would now put it back to original being a very 80's colour..
This one? Gold then black then yellow? II would love to see this put back to original.

That's the one, ex Tim Dutton of Dutton Cars. Famous for it's reg no TOO 510W ,
Almost wright , it was originally Gold, dark blue and then yellow.
First saw this car when it was in dark blue at Mike Pullen's famous Carrera Sport days at Goodwood and then at Castle Coombe on the De Tomaso and Lamborghini days.


For some reason always remember it was wearing white wheels and no wing,
Fond memories of the characters with their Countachs , The pink car with silver sills ,think it belonged to a dentist .
The Duluxe flesh coloured car with colour coded wheels , beleive it's now white and residing in Australia.


The pearlescent white car with reg no 15EXY ,remember it spinning ,i think at Castle Coombe ,the owner saying he forgot to check his tyre pressures after a winter storage.

And a guy that would turn up in either his blue later to be orange periscope Countach or his Ferrari Daytona which he took part in the Orient Express London to Venice race challenge sometime in the early 90's with Mike Pullen in his low body Countach, ( on You Tube) I think his name was Mike Lake looked like he was in a heavy metal rock band but sold American comics.

Great times ,Sorry gone off thread again as usual.
















Edited by rat rod on Wednesday 9th September 11:05

yzr500

229 posts

111 months

Wednesday 9th September 2020
quotequote all
What about getting the car painted in the original colour and having it wrapped in a modern bright colour and when you sell on take the wrap off?

rat rod

4,997 posts

73 months

Wednesday 9th September 2020
quotequote all
yzr500 said:
What about getting the car painted in the original colour and having it wrapped in a modern bright colour and when you sell on take the wrap off?
Good idea Jim if you are interested in either preserving the cars history or keeping it's value if and when you want to sell.

I wonder if anyone has wrapped a Countach must be nightmare doing all the templates for the first time .
Most wrappers would have the templates already in their system for modern Lamborghini's as so many have already been done .
Plus you would have to dismantle so many of the intricate parts as such a complex shape with all the air ducts ,scoops ect,
Unless the cars has had a nut and bolt restoration i can see older nuts and bolts sheering off and the parts not quite going back together quite as it should.

A professional repaint won't be cheap so you have to get it wright in your head first, go with your heart or your head.

The first Countch i ever drove was a Acapulco blue 5000 S that Mike Perry asked me to drive to the workshop from George Street as he had just sold it to a African Prince and i had my Jalpa to collect from there .
Talk about straight in the deep end, not that familiar with London at the best of times ,first time in a Countach, not mine and the cars sold .
To much responsibility to enjoy but the seed was sown.

I very tempted to take the M4 ramp but with the petrol light flashing didn't think Mlke would a appreciate a call to say that i've run out of petrol.

Yes would be Acapulco blue for me too but leave the interior as it is.

.




Edited by rat rod on Wednesday 9th September 12:18

456mgt

2,505 posts

274 months

Wednesday 9th September 2020
quotequote all
If you're interested in long term residual value, the only safe answer is to return it to original, however gopping that is. You'll then appeal to both purists and non-purists, the broadest possible market

My Miura was originally some baby faeces yellow, over a cream interior, and there's no way I could ever live with it. But other people probably could. Take the Miura which sold at Hampton Court recently; I don't think I could open the garage door and not flinch every time I saw it. Challenging. But absolutely fine if you're going to lock it away as a store of value.

Ferruccio

1,840 posts

127 months

Wednesday 9th September 2020
quotequote all
rat rod said:
yzr500 said:
What about getting the car painted in the original colour and having it wrapped in a modern bright colour and when you sell on take the wrap off?
Good idea Jim if you are interested in either preserving the cars history or keeping it's value if and when you want to sell.

I wonder if anyone has wrapped a Countach must be nightmare doing all the templates for the first time .
Most wrappers would have the templates already in their system for modern Lamborghini's as so many have already been done .
Plus you would have to dismantle so many of the intricate parts as such a complex shape with all the air ducts ,scoops ect,
Unless the cars has had a nut and bolt restoration i can see older nuts and bolts sheering off and the parts not quite going back together quite as it should.

A professional repaint won't be cheap so you have to get it wright in your head first, go with your heart or your head.

The first Countch i ever drove was a Acapulco blue 5000 S that Mike Perry asked me to drive to the workshop from George Street as he had just sold it to a African Prince and i had my Jalpa to collect from there .
Talk about straight in the deep end, not that familiar with London at the best of times ,first time in a Countach, not mine and the cars sold .
To much responsibility to enjoy but the seed was sown.

I very tempted to take the M4 ramp but with the petrol light flashing didn't think Mlke would a appreciate a call to say that i've run out of petrol.

Yes would be Acapulco blue for me too but leave the interior as it is.

Edited by rat rod on Wednesday 9th September 12:18
I recently looked at having my Countach PPF’d. Same process as a wrap obviously.
As they’d never done one before, as you say, they’d have had to do the templates from scratch. This made the cost prohibitive.

I suggested that it was a strange business model where you charge your development costs to your first customer; but they just asked when I thought they’d be doing another one.........??

rat rod

4,997 posts

73 months

Wednesday 9th September 2020
quotequote all
Ferruccio said:
I recently looked at having my Countach PPF’d. Same process as a wrap obviously.
As they’d never done one before, as you say, they’d have had to do the templates from scratch. This made the cost prohibitive.

I suggested that it was a strange business model where you charge your development costs to your first customer; but they just asked when I thought they’d be doing another one.........??
Quote" But they just asked when i thought they'd be doing another one" Some time never i should think .

Yes would be nice to protect it but being a older car it would worry me on the quality of the refitting of panels that would need to be removed especially if the car hasn't been apart before or recently.
As good as some of these guys are they are use to either brand new or almost new cars which must come apart and go back together easier ,some could be completely out of the depth with a older vehicle.
With so little use these cars have, i wonder if it would be worth it ,not only financially but could be more trouble than it's worth.

Did they give you a quote by any chance ?

carspath

857 posts

185 months

Wednesday 9th September 2020
quotequote all
yzr500 : '' Don't think it would matter the factory paint was very poor and the alloy panels cracked by the intake pods anyway ''.




I am not sure that it is correct to say that the factory paint was poor -- we are talking about 1970s and 1980s technology , and certainly the cars I saw back then ,looked lovely .

Equally , I dont think that the alloy panels cracked -- it was the paint around the intake pods that cracked

Just like the paint on the Kevlar engine cover can crack .




Chassis 12399 is a one previous owner car which has been kept in a dehumidified , heated garage throughout its life .
It now ( 32 years after leaving the production line ) has very fine hairline cracks on the Kevlar rear bonnet .
The paint on and around the intakes are fine , and there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG , with any of the alloy panels anywhere on the car .

There was a ripple emanating out from around the front bonnet Lamborghini badge ( the quality of the Countach badge is light years better than that of the Murcielago , to the point that when they are seen next to each other , one almost feels embarrassed for Lamborghini and the 21st century ) .
The first owner said that this was present on delivery , and it has grown about 1 mm every 5 to 8 years .



Now the question is what should one do about these defects ?

Aim for a Pebble Beach appearance , so that everyone can ooh and aah at perfection ?

Not for me , no .



Leave it as it is , and let the cosmetics show the grandeur of age .
The mechanicals on the other hand get servicing , repair and restoration as needed .
Quite simple really , and the medical analogy fits here too : medical surgery as necessary , gratuitous cosmetic surgery ( unless needed for significant accident damage ) never

My cars have never been near a detailer , whatever or whomever that is .
I hand wash each of my cars myself .

And so I know each and every stone chip
And I have to fall back on particularly fond memories of the drive , that unfortunately came with the price -tag of that particular stone chip .


( And you should plan each journey in a car like this , or otherwise take the Fiesta .
I have so little respect for that PH badge of honour , where a supercar owner boasts of driving his car xxxx miles within a yyyy timeframe .
Its the quality of the drive that counts , not the amount of seat time or mileage covered at 15 mph in Mayfair or 79 mph on the M3 )


I think that is what is called provenance ---- by which I mean true , genuine , real , PERSONAL , provenance .

You wont ever want to sell the car ( at least I wouldn't through choice - not for a straight swap for a Chiron or a 'Egg .... a Zonda would , i admit , make the knees wobble ) , so its the only type of provenance that counts .

Finally just enjoy the car in whichever way suits you best - you are hugely privileged to have it .

Edited by carspath on Wednesday 9th September 18:06

rat rod

4,997 posts

73 months

Wednesday 9th September 2020
quotequote all
carspath said:
yzr500 : '' Don't think it would matter the factory paint was very poor and the alloy panels cracked by the intake pods anyway ''.




I am not sure that it is correct to say that the factory paint was poor -- we are talking about 1970s and 1980s technology , and certainly the cars I saw back then ,looked lovely .

Equally , I dont think that the alloy panels cracked -- it was the paint around the intake pods that cracked

Just like the paint on the Kevlar engine cover can crack .




Chassis 12399 is a one previous owner car which has been kept in a dehumidified , heated garage throughout its life .
It now ( 32 years after leaving the production line ) has very fine hairline cracks on the Kevlar rear bonnet .
The paint on and around the intakes are fine , and there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG , with any of the alloy panels anywhere on the car .

There was a ripple emanating out from around the front bonnet Lamborghini badge ( the quality of the Countach badge is light years better than that of the Murcielago , to the point that when they are seen next to each other , one almost feels embarrassed for Lamborghini and the 21st century ) .
The first owner said that this was present on delivery , and it has grown about 1 mm every 5 to 8 years .



Now the question is what should one do about these defects ?

Aim for a Pebble Beach appearance , so that everyone can ooh and aah at perfection ?

Not for me , no .



Leave it as it is , and let the cosmetics show the grandeur of age .
The mechanicals on the other hand get servicing , repair and restoration as needed .
Quite simple really , and the medical analogy fits here too : medical surgery as necessary , gratuitous cosmetic surgery ( unless needed for significant accident damage ) never

My cars have never been near a detailer , whatever or whomever that is .
I hand wash each of my cars myself .

And so I know each and every stone chip
And I have to fall back on particularly fond memories of the drive , that unfortunately came with the price -tag of that particular stone chip .


( And you should plan each journey in a car like this , or otherwise take the Fiesta .
I have so little respect for that PH badge of honour , where a supercar owner boasts of driving his car xxxx miles within a yyyy timeframe .
Its the quality of the drive that counts , not the amount of seat time or mileage covered at 15 mph in Mayfair or 79 mph on the M3 )


I think that is what is called provenance ---- by which I mean true , genuine , real , PERSONAL , provenance .

You wont ever want to sell the car ( at least I wouldn't through choice - not for a straight swap for a Chiron or a 'Egg .... a Zonda would , i admit , make the knees wobble ) , so its the only type of provenance that counts .

Finally just enjoy the car in whichever way suits you best - you are hugely privileged to have it .

Edited by carspath on Wednesday 9th September 18:06
A car can be only original once . Maybe a over used phase but it's true.
The odd stone chip or mark gives the car some character plus you can be more relaxed about driving it and where you leave it which for me makes it more enjoyable.

If cosmetic paintwork is required i try to keep it to a minimum to keep it as original as possible even if it means the rest of the car isn't perfect

When looking around the Classic car park at Goodwood Rivival in a sea of over restored E types,Healey's and Aston's my eye is usually drawn to the unrestored cars with fly splattered fronts, exhaust stained paintwork and that general grubby look that the car is used as it should,

There's something romantic about a travel stained super car or classic .

Wonder who has more fun the guy with one of the above or the guy who brushes the grass off his tyres on a concours peice of art then puts it safely away in the trailer .

I am actually O.C.D and most of my cars are almost perfect which is probably why i enjoy even more a less than perfect one , makes a change from disappearing in the garage for hours recleaning a car that doesn't really need it.

Good job we are all different,would make a boring world if we wasn't, so whether it's picking the grass out of your tyres or going for a blast on a less than clement day as long as we enjoy them in our own way .


Edited by rat rod on Wednesday 9th September 19:43

carspath

857 posts

185 months

Wednesday 9th September 2020
quotequote all
Couldn't agree more rat rod -- we sing from the same hymn sheet .

rat rod

4,997 posts

73 months

Thursday 10th September 2020
quotequote all
bermy boy said:
I've recently bought a RHD 5000QV which doesn't have the rear wing fitted. Its currently painted red but not its original red. As part of the deal I got a respray thrown in. I'm considering a moderately rare colour, Acapulco blu. I'm also considering having a re-trim, changing from its very 1980s white leather to some sort of tan. Undecided on silver wheels or some sort of light bronze.

My question is this: how important is originality in colour - inside and outside - for a Countach? In Ferrari world, originality seems to be a BIG DEAL but my sense is that Lambo owners/buyers don't really care as much.

Any views welcome!
Spur Classics have a video out, think it's on You Tube, They mainly have American and British classics but the owner has Acapulco blue Countach and a Miura , may be of some interest to you .

PS.The Acapulco blue 5000 S i drove for Portman had two tone seats blue with white inserts i think. May of been the other way round ,memory not so good as it was , it was some time ago after all. .
Just thought i'd mention it as might give you some idea's what to do with your interior, it did break it up a little.



Edited by rat rod on Thursday 10th September 18:07

Ferruccio

1,840 posts

127 months

Friday 11th September 2020
quotequote all
rat rod said:
Quote" But they just asked when i thought they'd be doing another one" Some time never i should think .

Did they give you a quote by any chance ?
Front and sills. 4-5 days @ £1,500 + vat per day. So say £9,000. Topaz.