Convince me not to do something stupid with 12 Cylinders…
Discussion
So, as per my other thread over in the 12 forum, the F12 is gone.
Now, the plan was then sort of to either be vaguely sensible and find a Cali T after a while or to hunt around for a 360 Manual Spyder as my long term keeper.
I’m a fairly dumb bloke though, so the chances of my mind staying in sensible mode were fairly small.
And it was Goodwood last weekend.
And I saw a Daytona on Lavant banking.
And a 512TR.
So obviously I got to thinking…
Now, we are talking *seriously* flirting with divorce here, but…just how worth the grief is it to explore poking my toe into Daytona or 365/512 BB world?
Now, the plan was then sort of to either be vaguely sensible and find a Cali T after a while or to hunt around for a 360 Manual Spyder as my long term keeper.
I’m a fairly dumb bloke though, so the chances of my mind staying in sensible mode were fairly small.
And it was Goodwood last weekend.
And I saw a Daytona on Lavant banking.
And a 512TR.
So obviously I got to thinking…
Now, we are talking *seriously* flirting with divorce here, but…just how worth the grief is it to explore poking my toe into Daytona or 365/512 BB world?
I would definitely ditch the thoughts of a Daytona/512BB etc as you will probably find yourself in a world of marital pain in the not too distant future!
The 360 (or 430) manual spider option is the way I'd go personally, both cars very easy to live with/maintain and great fun at sensible speeds.
The 360 (or 430) manual spider option is the way I'd go personally, both cars very easy to live with/maintain and great fun at sensible speeds.
Go ahead!
I bought a RHD 1977 512 BB almost two years ago and have no regrets.
I chose the BB over the Daytona having been loaned examples of both. I suspect I rationalised that the BB was a near equivalent to the Miura (which I really hankered after). I was also not a fan of the head on view of the Daytona (pop up headlight version) - all subjective I know.
I paid top dollar for the BB I chose which was fresh from a complete rebuild organised by Carrozzeria Auto Sport (Bacchelli & Villa) in Modena. I have covered about 2.5k miles in her so far and have only had a couple of minor post-restoration snags to address.
I find the BB an exhilarating drive: the engine has a perfectly linear power delivery with no peaks or troughs - very like the Bizzarrini V12 in the Miura - and the biggest challenge is keeping the speed down. It causes no anxiety in traffic beyond a heavier than usual clutch and tall 1st gear which you soon get used to. The ride quality (on its balloon Michelin XWX tyres) is a pleasure forgotten to the modern motorist. My Huracan is a filling-remover by comparison. The unassisted steering is Lotus-sharp and reminds me of my Elise. There is much bar-room expert talk of how the engine over gearbox layout makes for unstable handling. Having heard these stories I tiptoed into corners when I first drove her but with a couple of thousand miles now under my belt I think they are misplaced at least for what I am comfortable doing on a public road. I would also refer critics to all the period road tests all of which waxed lyrical in their description of car.
In my view she is a good looking car. Having grown up in the 70s I have a thing about pop up lights and I like the fact that she was the last mainstream car Ferrari built with hammers and leather aprons. I also like the fact that a Miura S would have cost me almost 5 times the price I paid and an SV 7 + times. I cannot quite get my head around those numbers.
Negatives for me are lack of storage space and a 'tight fit' cabin. I have lost count of the times I have leant across from the driver's seat to pick up something from the passenger footwell and have knocked off the knock-off rearview mirror with my forehead. This is by no means a painless experience added to which the mirror does not pop back on without careful adjustment of the metal tabs that grip the mirror stalk. In fact, I now keep a Halfords suction mirror in the car to deal with "mirror incidents" when out and about. My wife has also announced that the BB is her least favourite of my cars which I think is not unrelated to her own mirror incident. Her favourite car is my 71 year old XK120 OTS in case you are interested.
If I am to offer buying suggestions, I am mindful that many BBs will have been maintained on a shoestring for many years when the values were very low and that many will have been stored away rather than used - not a good thing. I would either go for a recently restored car as I did or one that has seen regular use and love.
OP be brave and good luck!
I bought a RHD 1977 512 BB almost two years ago and have no regrets.
I chose the BB over the Daytona having been loaned examples of both. I suspect I rationalised that the BB was a near equivalent to the Miura (which I really hankered after). I was also not a fan of the head on view of the Daytona (pop up headlight version) - all subjective I know.
I paid top dollar for the BB I chose which was fresh from a complete rebuild organised by Carrozzeria Auto Sport (Bacchelli & Villa) in Modena. I have covered about 2.5k miles in her so far and have only had a couple of minor post-restoration snags to address.
I find the BB an exhilarating drive: the engine has a perfectly linear power delivery with no peaks or troughs - very like the Bizzarrini V12 in the Miura - and the biggest challenge is keeping the speed down. It causes no anxiety in traffic beyond a heavier than usual clutch and tall 1st gear which you soon get used to. The ride quality (on its balloon Michelin XWX tyres) is a pleasure forgotten to the modern motorist. My Huracan is a filling-remover by comparison. The unassisted steering is Lotus-sharp and reminds me of my Elise. There is much bar-room expert talk of how the engine over gearbox layout makes for unstable handling. Having heard these stories I tiptoed into corners when I first drove her but with a couple of thousand miles now under my belt I think they are misplaced at least for what I am comfortable doing on a public road. I would also refer critics to all the period road tests all of which waxed lyrical in their description of car.
In my view she is a good looking car. Having grown up in the 70s I have a thing about pop up lights and I like the fact that she was the last mainstream car Ferrari built with hammers and leather aprons. I also like the fact that a Miura S would have cost me almost 5 times the price I paid and an SV 7 + times. I cannot quite get my head around those numbers.
Negatives for me are lack of storage space and a 'tight fit' cabin. I have lost count of the times I have leant across from the driver's seat to pick up something from the passenger footwell and have knocked off the knock-off rearview mirror with my forehead. This is by no means a painless experience added to which the mirror does not pop back on without careful adjustment of the metal tabs that grip the mirror stalk. In fact, I now keep a Halfords suction mirror in the car to deal with "mirror incidents" when out and about. My wife has also announced that the BB is her least favourite of my cars which I think is not unrelated to her own mirror incident. Her favourite car is my 71 year old XK120 OTS in case you are interested.
If I am to offer buying suggestions, I am mindful that many BBs will have been maintained on a shoestring for many years when the values were very low and that many will have been stored away rather than used - not a good thing. I would either go for a recently restored car as I did or one that has seen regular use and love.
OP be brave and good luck!
DeejRC said:
So, as per my other thread over in the 12 forum, the F12 is gone.
Now, the plan was then sort of to either be vaguely sensible and find a Cali T after a while or to hunt around for a 360 Manual Spyder as my long term keeper.
I’m a fairly dumb bloke though, so the chances of my mind staying in sensible mode were fairly small.
And it was Goodwood last weekend.
And I saw a Daytona on Lavant banking.
And a 512TR.
So obviously I got to thinking…
Now, we are talking *seriously* flirting with divorce here, but…just how worth the grief is it to explore poking my toe into Daytona or 365/512 BB world?
Wrong forum to get sensible advise ,Consider a divorce a option.Now, the plan was then sort of to either be vaguely sensible and find a Cali T after a while or to hunt around for a 360 Manual Spyder as my long term keeper.
I’m a fairly dumb bloke though, so the chances of my mind staying in sensible mode were fairly small.
And it was Goodwood last weekend.
And I saw a Daytona on Lavant banking.
And a 512TR.
So obviously I got to thinking…
Now, we are talking *seriously* flirting with divorce here, but…just how worth the grief is it to explore poking my toe into Daytona or 365/512 BB world?
Coming from previously owning seven V12 Ferrari's to now a track prepared 308 GTB and a F430 i have no regrets
but like you the itch is still there,can't stretch to a Daytona but a Boxer would do nicely as prices have
seemed to come down to a affordable level the last year or so.
Sold a standard 308 GTB to a guy coming out of a Boxer, said he got fed up with spinning it on track days trying
to keep up with the 308's on the twisty bits, Saw him at a Silerstone Ferrari track day a year or so later
driving his Testarossa ,when asked where is the GTB he said it was just to bigger a step backwards for him.
Edited by rat rod on Tuesday 12th April 18:08
DeejRC said:
Cracking Benz, absolutely cracking 
This is just the kind of sensible consumer advice I was looking for.
Rod - my first donkey was a 308GTS. That one nearly caused a divorce! That may have been because I may have neglected telling her that I had bought it…
Ha ! Ha!, Well worth spending a week on the couch with a Ferrari in the garage,,This is just the kind of sensible consumer advice I was looking for.
Rod - my first donkey was a 308GTS. That one nearly caused a divorce! That may have been because I may have neglected telling her that I had bought it…
I think it was the colour that swung it for me. It is Azzurro Metallizzato as originally ordered with an Azzurro bottom half and an Azzurro rather than black top hoop thing.
It had an interesting story. The previous owner (Swiss) had bought it from Japan where it had been for 20 plus years. At this point it was LHD and red. The previous owner then sent the car to Carrozzeria Auto Sport (Bacchelli & Villa) for restoration. They quickly identified the car as a UK delivered RHD car originally finished in Azzurro Metallizzato. The owner decided to restore the car to its original spec. with a view to selling it on completion and to source a replacement LHD car to keep. I purchased the car on completion in 2020 through a London dealer.
it strikes me as odd that someone would have taken the trouble to convert a RHD car to LHD but I do know that the Japanese market, although RHD, does like its premium cars to be LHD. Someone told me it is so the driver of an LHD car can more easily see a reflection of himself driving along in the shop windows and think (in Japanese) "I am the man" although I think that an unlikely story.
Anyhow, I am pleased to have it (and also as it is now RHD again that I am spared the embarrassment of seeing reflections of myself in shop windows).
It had an interesting story. The previous owner (Swiss) had bought it from Japan where it had been for 20 plus years. At this point it was LHD and red. The previous owner then sent the car to Carrozzeria Auto Sport (Bacchelli & Villa) for restoration. They quickly identified the car as a UK delivered RHD car originally finished in Azzurro Metallizzato. The owner decided to restore the car to its original spec. with a view to selling it on completion and to source a replacement LHD car to keep. I purchased the car on completion in 2020 through a London dealer.
it strikes me as odd that someone would have taken the trouble to convert a RHD car to LHD but I do know that the Japanese market, although RHD, does like its premium cars to be LHD. Someone told me it is so the driver of an LHD car can more easily see a reflection of himself driving along in the shop windows and think (in Japanese) "I am the man" although I think that an unlikely story.
Anyhow, I am pleased to have it (and also as it is now RHD again that I am spared the embarrassment of seeing reflections of myself in shop windows).
OLDBENZ said:
I think it was the colour that swung it for me. It is Azzurro Metallizzato as originally ordered with an Azzurro bottom half and an Azzurro rather than black top hoop thing.
It had an interesting story. The previous owner (Swiss) had bought it from Japan where it had been for 20 plus years. At this point it was LHD and red. The previous owner then sent the car to Carrozzeria Auto Sport (Bacchelli & Villa) for restoration. They quickly identified the car as a UK delivered RHD car originally finished in Azzurro Metallizzato. The owner decided to restore the car to its original spec. with a view to selling it on completion and to source a replacement LHD car to keep. I purchased the car on completion in 2020 through a London dealer.
it strikes me as odd that someone would have taken the trouble to convert a RHD car to LHD but I do know that the Japanese market, although RHD, does like its premium cars to be LHD. Someone told me it is so the driver of an LHD car can more easily see a reflection of himself driving along in the shop windows and think (in Japanese) "I am the man" although I think that an unlikely story.
Anyhow, I am pleased to have it (and also as it is now RHD again that I am spared the embarrassment of seeing reflections of myself in shop windows).
Last time i looked at my reflection in a shop window think i was 19 at the time , believe it was Debenhams to see how It had an interesting story. The previous owner (Swiss) had bought it from Japan where it had been for 20 plus years. At this point it was LHD and red. The previous owner then sent the car to Carrozzeria Auto Sport (Bacchelli & Villa) for restoration. They quickly identified the car as a UK delivered RHD car originally finished in Azzurro Metallizzato. The owner decided to restore the car to its original spec. with a view to selling it on completion and to source a replacement LHD car to keep. I purchased the car on completion in 2020 through a London dealer.
it strikes me as odd that someone would have taken the trouble to convert a RHD car to LHD but I do know that the Japanese market, although RHD, does like its premium cars to be LHD. Someone told me it is so the driver of an LHD car can more easily see a reflection of himself driving along in the shop windows and think (in Japanese) "I am the man" although I think that an unlikely story.
Anyhow, I am pleased to have it (and also as it is now RHD again that I am spared the embarrassment of seeing reflections of myself in shop windows).
cool i looked in my rather tatty daily driven E Type, to my horror the traffic in front of me had come to a halt ,
didn't look so cool locking all my wheels up with the accompanying noise of tyres squealing to a stop inches
away from destroying the rear end of the car in front of me, Although now empty i often drive past the same Debenhams
and grin about yet another narrow escape , Obviously haven't learnt by my past mistakes and still glance at my reflection and wonder
who is this silly old fool driving this lovely Italian car,
Edited by rat rod on Wednesday 13th April 00:04
Its an interesting thing about the lhd v rhd discussion.
Im fairly certain I will go lhd if I do the BB. The rhd 308 I had damn nr crippled me. The 1970s Italian communist mentality regarded making anything rhd as nothing other than an exercise in torture. These things were never designed to be rhd, absolutely no accounting was taken for it and the rhd ergonomics are just horrendous.
Im fairly certain I will go lhd if I do the BB. The rhd 308 I had damn nr crippled me. The 1970s Italian communist mentality regarded making anything rhd as nothing other than an exercise in torture. These things were never designed to be rhd, absolutely no accounting was taken for it and the rhd ergonomics are just horrendous.
ok, I think someone needs to at least try and offer a balanced view even if this is Pistonheads!
firstly, OLDBENZ, your car is fabulous, best colour I've ever seen one in.
DeeJ - is this going to be your only Ferrari? If so, do you really think a BB is the one to get?
Is it a V12 itch or a manual itch (you mentioned 360 manual in your original post)?
You also mentioned Cali T or 360 Spider - obviously both with no roof - is this also a specific itch?
If it's V12, would a 575SA not be a safer option (i.e. more usable) if you don't mind F1 or a LHD 550 Barchetta manual (if you don't mind getting wet!).
If it's your 3rd/nth Ferrari then a BB is a great option.
firstly, OLDBENZ, your car is fabulous, best colour I've ever seen one in.
DeeJ - is this going to be your only Ferrari? If so, do you really think a BB is the one to get?
Is it a V12 itch or a manual itch (you mentioned 360 manual in your original post)?
You also mentioned Cali T or 360 Spider - obviously both with no roof - is this also a specific itch?
If it's V12, would a 575SA not be a safer option (i.e. more usable) if you don't mind F1 or a LHD 550 Barchetta manual (if you don't mind getting wet!).
If it's your 3rd/nth Ferrari then a BB is a great option.
OLDBENZ said:
Go ahead!
I bought a RHD 1977 512 BB almost two years ago and have no regrets.
I chose the BB over the Daytona having been loaned examples of both. I suspect I rationalised that the BB was a near equivalent to the Miura (which I really hankered after). I was also not a fan of the head on view of the Daytona (pop up headlight version) - all subjective I know.
I paid top dollar for the BB I chose which was fresh from a complete rebuild organised by Carrozzeria Auto Sport (Bacchelli & Villa) in Modena. I have covered about 2.5k miles in her so far and have only had a couple of minor post-restoration snags to address.
I find the BB an exhilarating drive: the engine has a perfectly linear power delivery with no peaks or troughs - very like the Bizzarrini V12 in the Miura - and the biggest challenge is keeping the speed down. It causes no anxiety in traffic beyond a heavier than usual clutch and tall 1st gear which you soon get used to. The ride quality (on its balloon Michelin XWX tyres) is a pleasure forgotten to the modern motorist. My Huracan is a filling-remover by comparison. The unassisted steering is Lotus-sharp and reminds me of my Elise. There is much bar-room expert talk of how the engine over gearbox layout makes for unstable handling. Having heard these stories I tiptoed into corners when I first drove her but with a couple of thousand miles now under my belt I think they are misplaced at least for what I am comfortable doing on a public road. I would also refer critics to all the period road tests all of which waxed lyrical in their description of car.
In my view she is a good looking car. Having grown up in the 70s I have a thing about pop up lights and I like the fact that she was the last mainstream car Ferrari built with hammers and leather aprons. I also like the fact that a Miura S would have cost me almost 5 times the price I paid and an SV 7 + times. I cannot quite get my head around those numbers.
Negatives for me are lack of storage space and a 'tight fit' cabin. I have lost count of the times I have leant across from the driver's seat to pick up something from the passenger footwell and have knocked off the knock-off rearview mirror with my forehead. This is by no means a painless experience added to which the mirror does not pop back on without careful adjustment of the metal tabs that grip the mirror stalk. In fact, I now keep a Halfords suction mirror in the car to deal with "mirror incidents" when out and about. My wife has also announced that the BB is her least favourite of my cars which I think is not unrelated to her own mirror incident. Her favourite car is my 71 year old XK120 OTS in case you are interested.
If I am to offer buying suggestions, I am mindful that many BBs will have been maintained on a shoestring for many years when the values were very low and that many will have been stored away rather than used - not a good thing. I would either go for a recently restored car as I did or one that has seen regular use and love.
OP be brave and good luck!
Nice review, thanks for posting. Not often on PH we get a write up on a classic Ferrari, let alone a Berlinetta Boxer!I bought a RHD 1977 512 BB almost two years ago and have no regrets.
I chose the BB over the Daytona having been loaned examples of both. I suspect I rationalised that the BB was a near equivalent to the Miura (which I really hankered after). I was also not a fan of the head on view of the Daytona (pop up headlight version) - all subjective I know.
I paid top dollar for the BB I chose which was fresh from a complete rebuild organised by Carrozzeria Auto Sport (Bacchelli & Villa) in Modena. I have covered about 2.5k miles in her so far and have only had a couple of minor post-restoration snags to address.
I find the BB an exhilarating drive: the engine has a perfectly linear power delivery with no peaks or troughs - very like the Bizzarrini V12 in the Miura - and the biggest challenge is keeping the speed down. It causes no anxiety in traffic beyond a heavier than usual clutch and tall 1st gear which you soon get used to. The ride quality (on its balloon Michelin XWX tyres) is a pleasure forgotten to the modern motorist. My Huracan is a filling-remover by comparison. The unassisted steering is Lotus-sharp and reminds me of my Elise. There is much bar-room expert talk of how the engine over gearbox layout makes for unstable handling. Having heard these stories I tiptoed into corners when I first drove her but with a couple of thousand miles now under my belt I think they are misplaced at least for what I am comfortable doing on a public road. I would also refer critics to all the period road tests all of which waxed lyrical in their description of car.
In my view she is a good looking car. Having grown up in the 70s I have a thing about pop up lights and I like the fact that she was the last mainstream car Ferrari built with hammers and leather aprons. I also like the fact that a Miura S would have cost me almost 5 times the price I paid and an SV 7 + times. I cannot quite get my head around those numbers.
Negatives for me are lack of storage space and a 'tight fit' cabin. I have lost count of the times I have leant across from the driver's seat to pick up something from the passenger footwell and have knocked off the knock-off rearview mirror with my forehead. This is by no means a painless experience added to which the mirror does not pop back on without careful adjustment of the metal tabs that grip the mirror stalk. In fact, I now keep a Halfords suction mirror in the car to deal with "mirror incidents" when out and about. My wife has also announced that the BB is her least favourite of my cars which I think is not unrelated to her own mirror incident. Her favourite car is my 71 year old XK120 OTS in case you are interested.
If I am to offer buying suggestions, I am mindful that many BBs will have been maintained on a shoestring for many years when the values were very low and that many will have been stored away rather than used - not a good thing. I would either go for a recently restored car as I did or one that has seen regular use and love.
OP be brave and good luck!
Maybe someone could post a review of a Daytona for comparison to help the OP.
Both cars are icons and a much classier choice than anything more modern. A 365BB or carb 512 remains on my must have list although a Daytona might be a Ferrari too far!
Not worth divorce is that's a real consideration
Loved my Daytona.
Beautiful things. Pretty light and nimble when on the move, with plenty of poke and sound immense (think Spitfire rather than F1 screamer). Heavy at parking speeds. A true event to drive.
Needs to be the plexiglass car though IMO. Looks much better at the front (though the rear 3/4 is the view to have).
Air con was pretty rubbish. It did keep the worst excesses off, but with a lot of glass in the cabin they can get very hot.
Knock off wheels are a pest (I had an adaptor that allowed a torque wrench to be used).
Wasn't much else to it tbh (mine didn't have a radio etc).
Sold mine when prices were on the rise to fund a house move. Should have waited a year or two in hindsight, but you only live once (Or if I win big on the lottery, I'll live twice by buying a 250GT SWB). When looking I was nearly swayed by a DB4...and also opted not to look at a cheap LHD Miura owing to my size (am still left wondering if I could fit!)...prices were all "sensible" back then.
BB is a nice car, but nowhere near as elegant looking (IMO), and I think the Daytona was quicker. If I wanted that format, I'd go for the modern 512TR.
As I sit here writing this, truly lovely as the Daytona was, it's the 355 I miss the most...
Loved my Daytona.
Beautiful things. Pretty light and nimble when on the move, with plenty of poke and sound immense (think Spitfire rather than F1 screamer). Heavy at parking speeds. A true event to drive.
Needs to be the plexiglass car though IMO. Looks much better at the front (though the rear 3/4 is the view to have).
Air con was pretty rubbish. It did keep the worst excesses off, but with a lot of glass in the cabin they can get very hot.
Knock off wheels are a pest (I had an adaptor that allowed a torque wrench to be used).
Wasn't much else to it tbh (mine didn't have a radio etc).
Sold mine when prices were on the rise to fund a house move. Should have waited a year or two in hindsight, but you only live once
(Or if I win big on the lottery, I'll live twice by buying a 250GT SWB). When looking I was nearly swayed by a DB4...and also opted not to look at a cheap LHD Miura owing to my size (am still left wondering if I could fit!)...prices were all "sensible" back then.BB is a nice car, but nowhere near as elegant looking (IMO), and I think the Daytona was quicker. If I wanted that format, I'd go for the modern 512TR.
As I sit here writing this, truly lovely as the Daytona was, it's the 355 I miss the most...
Gassing Station | Ferrari Classics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff