Manual gearboxes: how long till "warmed-up"?
Discussion
For as long as I can remember people have always said that manual Ferrari gearboxes are recalcitrant until fully warmed-up. Gearshifts can be sticky, 2nd gear a no-no from cold, etc.
So how long should it take for them to ease up for optimal performance? Presumably warming-up happens much quicker when the car is actually being driven, rather than standing on the driveway, so should it be measured in miles rather than time?
So how long should it take for them to ease up for optimal performance? Presumably warming-up happens much quicker when the car is actually being driven, rather than standing on the driveway, so should it be measured in miles rather than time?
Engine oil temp is a reasonable guide to when the gearbox is also warmed up (though it'd be behind). I'd say about 10 miles for engine temps to be up and another 5-10 miles before the gearbox catches up. A bit more in winter.
My first 1980 308 had a difficult 2nd when cold. My current 1978 one is perfect in 2nd at any temperature. Others report the issue has been there on some cars from new, so it seems not to be about wear. At least not always.
There are many theories about why there are differences even across exactly the same model. Personally, I think the answer is simply engineering tolerances. My current 308 doesn't exhibit the problem and there is no reference to it in the car's history, which is pretty comprehensive, so I presume it has worked fine from leaving the factory.
Some have resorted to drilling a hole in the tranny case, the theory being there is a hydraulic locking problem when cold & this hole relieves the pressure. Others have changed tranny oil to a Redline product (I forget exactly which) which has worked well for many. Yet others have resorted to a full tranny rebuild. I used to double declutch on the upshift which worked fine, but you have to be pretty precise with it since 2nd spins relatively fast.
My first 1980 308 had a difficult 2nd when cold. My current 1978 one is perfect in 2nd at any temperature. Others report the issue has been there on some cars from new, so it seems not to be about wear. At least not always.
There are many theories about why there are differences even across exactly the same model. Personally, I think the answer is simply engineering tolerances. My current 308 doesn't exhibit the problem and there is no reference to it in the car's history, which is pretty comprehensive, so I presume it has worked fine from leaving the factory.
Some have resorted to drilling a hole in the tranny case, the theory being there is a hydraulic locking problem when cold & this hole relieves the pressure. Others have changed tranny oil to a Redline product (I forget exactly which) which has worked well for many. Yet others have resorted to a full tranny rebuild. I used to double declutch on the upshift which worked fine, but you have to be pretty precise with it since 2nd spins relatively fast.
dad_drive said:
On the F40 it feels like a eternity, probably half an hour of moderate pace driving. It's still fairly belligerent after that.
Hmm, only really to second I found, the rest were mostly ok once you got the knack of it.. That said, I was driving most of my miles in the warmer months over to LeMans and around town.. The times I took her out in the snow, I was more focussed on pointing straight than rapid gearshifts I think hehe
Behemoth said:
Engine oil temp is a reasonable guide to when the gearbox is also warmed up (though it'd be behind). I'd say about 10 miles for engine temps to be up and another 5-10 miles before the gearbox catches up. A bit more in winter.
My first 1980 308 had a difficult 2nd when cold. My current 1978 one is perfect in 2nd at any temperature. Others report the issue has been there on some cars from new, so it seems not to be about wear. At least not always.
There are many theories about why there are differences even across exactly the same model. Personally, I think the answer is simply engineering tolerances. My current 308 doesn't exhibit the problem and there is no reference to it in the car's history, which is pretty comprehensive, so I presume it has worked fine from leaving the factory.
Some have resorted to drilling a hole in the tranny case, the theory being there is a hydraulic locking problem when cold & this hole relieves the pressure. Others have changed tranny oil to a Redline product (I forget exactly which) which has worked well for many. Yet others have resorted to a full tranny rebuild. I used to double declutch on the upshift which worked fine, but you have to be pretty precise with it since 2nd spins relatively fast.
I've never had a problem with 2nd gear, even when cold, on my 1980 308.My first 1980 308 had a difficult 2nd when cold. My current 1978 one is perfect in 2nd at any temperature. Others report the issue has been there on some cars from new, so it seems not to be about wear. At least not always.
There are many theories about why there are differences even across exactly the same model. Personally, I think the answer is simply engineering tolerances. My current 308 doesn't exhibit the problem and there is no reference to it in the car's history, which is pretty comprehensive, so I presume it has worked fine from leaving the factory.
Some have resorted to drilling a hole in the tranny case, the theory being there is a hydraulic locking problem when cold & this hole relieves the pressure. Others have changed tranny oil to a Redline product (I forget exactly which) which has worked well for many. Yet others have resorted to a full tranny rebuild. I used to double declutch on the upshift which worked fine, but you have to be pretty precise with it since 2nd spins relatively fast.
My gearbox oil temperature gauge requires a hot day and some spirited driving before it shows any significant signs of life.
As an aside, seeing the year 1980 (first registered 1/1/81) above reminded me: it's less than 3 years until I don't have to pay road tax or fanny about getting it through an MOT every year...
Edited by Andy 308GTB on Friday 23 March 12:36
Andy 308GTB said:
I've never had a problem with 2nd gear, even when cold, on my 1980 308.
My gearbox oil temperature gauge requires a hot day and some spirited driving before it shows any significant signs of life.
As an aside, seeing the year 1980 (first registered 1/1/81) above reminded me: it's less than 3 years until I don't have to pay road tax or fanny about getting it through an MOT every year...
I thought the oil temp pick-up measures engine temps, not gearbox My gearbox oil temperature gauge requires a hot day and some spirited driving before it shows any significant signs of life.
As an aside, seeing the year 1980 (first registered 1/1/81) above reminded me: it's less than 3 years until I don't have to pay road tax or fanny about getting it through an MOT every year...
I've heard so many differing reports on the notchy 2nd gear. It isn't anything to do with year and doesn't appear to be to do with wear. So I'm going with engineering tolerances until proved otherwise..
Tax & MoT free is just around the corner for me
I'll be changing to silver-on-black reg plates, too.Behemoth said:
Andy 308GTB said:
I've never had a problem with 2nd gear, even when cold, on my 1980 308.
My gearbox oil temperature gauge requires a hot day and some spirited driving before it shows any significant signs of life.
As an aside, seeing the year 1980 (first registered 1/1/81) above reminded me: it's less than 3 years until I don't have to pay road tax or fanny about getting it through an MOT every year...
I thought the oil temp pick-up measures engine temps, not gearbox My gearbox oil temperature gauge requires a hot day and some spirited driving before it shows any significant signs of life.
As an aside, seeing the year 1980 (first registered 1/1/81) above reminded me: it's less than 3 years until I don't have to pay road tax or fanny about getting it through an MOT every year...
LotusOmega375D said:
For as long as I can remember people have always said that manual Ferrari gearboxes are recalcitrant until fully warmed-up. Gearshifts can be sticky, 2nd gear a no-no from cold, etc.
With Ferrari's that have this quirk (I wont call it a problem because it isn't really), it's not a case that the shift is "sticky", it's a case that 2nd gear simply isn't there!When the gearbox is cold and you go for second gear, it's like there is a physical barrier that wont let the gear go in. There's no teeth crunching as the gear tries to engage, it's as though the entire gear is blocked off, so for the first 10 minutes or so, you have to do a 1st to 3rd shift (which the car carries out without batting an eyelid).
Once warmed up, the 1st to 2nd shift, whilst a bit clumsy with the dog-leg boxes, is as smooth as you like.
The funny thing is, the "no second gear until the box is warmed up" situation is simply accepted as being the norm with Ferrari's, and for some, it's a badge of honour, as if it shows that your Ferrari is a proper Ferrari!
If BMW/Audi/Mercedes etc., etc., had ever sold a car costing as much as a Ferrari, and then said to customers: "Oh, by the way, you can't use 2nd gear for the first 10 minutes of driving!", there would have been outrage.
With Ferrari's though, customers simply said: "Quirk of the car, okay, no problem!"
As I understand it, the inability to get into second until it's warmed up is down to that gear having a stronger synchromesh. I read that some sort of tech was introduced on the 355 to stop this being the case so these and later cars shouldn't be affected. I also read that if you have a pre-355 car that should refuse to go into second when cold, but selects second easily, it indicates that the synchromesh is worn.
I found that changing the gearbox oil in my 348 reduced the 'warm up' time from 10 mins to one or two mins, even in the cold, and also made is generally slicker and less needy for a blip of gas during changes (fun as that is).
My 512M usually takes 5 to 10 mins and the 360 only needs a minute or two.
My 512M usually takes 5 to 10 mins and the 360 only needs a minute or two.
Gassing Station | Ferrari Classics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff