Bad time to buy a classic?
Discussion
I'm interested in buying my dream classic a testarossa. I'm obviously aware of the appreciation of values and remember the classic car boom of the eighties and understand how different people say this boom is. I don't mind paying more than I would have done a couple of years back. However if I buy now am I going to get my fingers burnt .. I know it depends on how well I buy and how the economy post Brexit unfolds. Whats everyones view? I'm after an early car I think and not that concerned whether its RHD/ LHD. Not entirely sure where to start
Jonny TVR said:
I'm interested in buying my dream classic a testarossa. I'm obviously aware of the appreciation of values and remember the classic car boom of the eighties and understand how different people say this boom is. I don't mind paying more than I would have done a couple of years back. However if I buy now am I going to get my fingers burnt .. I know it depends on how well I buy and how the economy post Brexit unfolds. Whats everyones view? I'm after an early car I think and not that concerned whether its RHD/ LHD. Not entirely sure where to start
Where to start? Well I'd start scouring the classic car magazines, the Ferrari sales agents specialist websites, join a Testarossa club chat forum if there is one. Then you'll start to get a very good idea of the actual value of the cars (not the asking prices). You will then be well prepared when you do go hunting. You seem to be asking "when" should you buy but that's kind of irrelevant because if this is a dream car you'll never be selling and in any case if you pay a little over the top or get a bargain it won't matter to you. That's what I have done in the past and found the hunt an enjoyable part of the process.I would say the TR market has been quite static for about a year now. I sold mine in May last year and I still see the same cars for sale the same time as mine and they are more expensive.
There is a lot of rubbish being floated in the market and people/dealers are trying it on. They are great cars, I had mine 12 years, but many have been neglected and poorly maintained. A quick detail isn't enough.
There is a lot of rubbish being floated in the market and people/dealers are trying it on. They are great cars, I had mine 12 years, but many have been neglected and poorly maintained. A quick detail isn't enough.
Jonny TVR said:
if I buy now am I going to get my fingers burnt .. I know it depends on how well I buy and how the economy post Brexit unfolds
If you want to flip the car in the next 5 years, you're gambling. I don't think you have a problem long term. I think the 10-20 year view on the TR and its stablemates is incredibly bright.Brexit is a British problem, so you could hedge against that by getting LHD. However, it could well have international consequences, especially if you mix in some sort of Chinese or Italian financial calamity. The market in the UK appears to be almost at a standstill. People are not buying because of the uncertainty. People are not selling, either, often because they have pie in the sky asking prices having done a linear extrapolation of the last few years' gains.
To me, this means it's more of a buyer's than a sellers market if you can find a good car. You should be able to negotiate a good price; don't worry about low balling an offer and have the guts to sit and wait. I've seen cars tumble 25% in asking price with just this tactic (although on a car that ultimately I didn't want).
But as others have said, you shouldn't be buying as an investment. Buy to enjoy & drive. Meantime if it gains as an asset, that's just a lovely bonus to have.
Per your question, I say it's not a bad time.
If the world falls apart, which it might well do given colossal global debt and wretched global growth, quality tangible assets will be sort after.
If QE comes back with a vengeance, which it might well do per the point above, in the short to medium term the same cause of the post 2013 bubble will keep some wheels spinning.
But be very careful what you buy. Don't compromise on quality. A dog remains a dog. Buy quality and if s
t happens you'll still have a desirable beauty at the bottom of your garden.
And keep an eye on Dino prices. The moment they wobble you know a big slide is on its way. Don't get me wrong, the Dino is a pretty little thing but an average drive and plenty volume; it is now very over-priced for what it is and will be the first IMO to pop.
If the world falls apart, which it might well do given colossal global debt and wretched global growth, quality tangible assets will be sort after.
If QE comes back with a vengeance, which it might well do per the point above, in the short to medium term the same cause of the post 2013 bubble will keep some wheels spinning.
But be very careful what you buy. Don't compromise on quality. A dog remains a dog. Buy quality and if s
t happens you'll still have a desirable beauty at the bottom of your garden. And keep an eye on Dino prices. The moment they wobble you know a big slide is on its way. Don't get me wrong, the Dino is a pretty little thing but an average drive and plenty volume; it is now very over-priced for what it is and will be the first IMO to pop.
Edited by Camlet on Wednesday 3rd August 20:48
Camlet said:
And keep an eye on Dino prices. The moment they wobble you know a big slide is on its way. Don't get me wrong, the Dino is a pretty little thing but an average drive and plenty volume; it is now very over-priced for what it is and will be the first IMO to pop.
I think we're starting to see this already, result from Le Mans Classic last month...Edited by Camlet on Wednesday 3rd August 20:48
http://www.artcurial.com/en/asp/fullCatalogue.asp?...
cgt2 said:
The Silverstone Classic auction on Saturday was extremely flat. Lots of Ferraris unsold, including a Testarossa.
I thought Ferraris looked flat but at the same time many others, particularly in the 10/50k bracket went very well. My take is that enthusiast cars at the right price bracket are firm, but the collector bracket is fatigued.
bryn_p said:
I think we're starting to see this already, result from Le Mans Classic last month...
http://www.artcurial.com/en/asp/fullCatalogue.asp?...
I dunno about that. It sold, within estimate.http://www.artcurial.com/en/asp/fullCatalogue.asp?...
As the markets falter and house prices stagnate what do you do with any savings you have? You don't want to risk stocks and property, interest rates will be 0.25% by lunch time so no point putting it in the bank. Therefore cars still look like a good investment as they attract no tax on sale. Any Brexit fears should be counteracted by classics being a fairly safe choice for your money in these turbulent times. Just my thoughts, you need to think it through yourself. However if you love a car just go for it, the enjoyment and pleasure you will get will out weigh any financial loss, as with property if it goes down just keep long term until the situation improves. If you need to be able to sell fast to get your cash back for something then that's when you will lose so make sure you are in a position where you don't need to sell for 5-10 years and you should be fine.
bryn_p said:
For £185k when the cheapest at a dealer is £285k, I think it was a sensible estimate reflecting where the market actually is
The one at the dealer should at least work properly. Here's one for £219 http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/f... . To the auction one, add recomissioning + margin and you're there.Behemoth said:
The one at the dealer should at least work properly. Here's one for £219 http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/f... . To the auction one, add recomissioning + margin and you're there.
That illustrates my point really, pretty sure they were all high £200s last yearBispal said:
As the markets falter and house prices stagnate what do you do with any savings you have? You don't want to risk stocks and property, interest rates will be 0.25% by lunch time so no point putting it in the bank. Therefore cars still look like a good investment as they attract no tax on sale. Any Brexit fears should be counteracted by classics being a fairly safe choice for your money in these turbulent times. Just my thoughts, you need to think it through yourself. However if you love a car just go for it, the enjoyment and pleasure you will get will out weigh any financial loss, as with property if it goes down just keep long term until the situation improves. If you need to be able to sell fast to get your cash back for something then that's when you will lose so make sure you are in a position where you don't need to sell for 5-10 years and you should be fine.
for car lovers / enthusiasts I can see the above if you treat your investments not purely as a financial proposition. But for "normal people" how many other assets do you have to own before you "invest" money in a car, an investment that does not generate income and even worse produces monthly carry costs. I just can't believe that many non car guys sit there thinking it is a good idea to buy a 200k car instead of their first/second rental property/some kind of investment fund etc. Edit: One addition, I think car guys are using the current market as proof that buying cars is not a pure hobby/ expensive folly. At some point prices will be 50% or 75% of today again and the whole cars as investment talk will become very quiet again (am talking "normalish" cars, not the 7-digit rich people collector cars - no clue what happens to those)
Edited by MDL111 on Thursday 4th August 14:28
coyft said:
Can't see what the mileage is.MDL111 said:
Bispal said:
As the markets falter and house prices stagnate what do you do with any savings you have? You don't want to risk stocks and property, interest rates will be 0.25% by lunch time so no point putting it in the bank. Therefore cars still look like a good investment as they attract no tax on sale. Any Brexit fears should be counteracted by classics being a fairly safe choice for your money in these turbulent times. Just my thoughts, you need to think it through yourself. However if you love a car just go for it, the enjoyment and pleasure you will get will out weigh any financial loss, as with property if it goes down just keep long term until the situation improves. If you need to be able to sell fast to get your cash back for something then that's when you will lose so make sure you are in a position where you don't need to sell for 5-10 years and you should be fine.
...for car lovers / enthusiasts I can see the above if you treat your investments not purely as a financial proposition. But for "normal people" how many other assets do you have to own before you "invest" money in a car, an investment that does not generate income and even worse produces monthly carry costs. I just can't believe that many non car guys sit there thinking it is a good idea to buy a 200k car instead of their first/second rental property/some kind of investment fund etc. Edit: One addition, I think car guys are using the current market as proof that buying cars is not a pure hobby/ expensive folly. At some point prices will be 50% or 75% of today again and the whole cars as investment talk will become very quiet again (am talking "normalish" cars, not the 7-digit rich people collector cars - no clue what happens to those)
elms said:
There is an awful lot of rubbish going through the auctions at the moment.
Buyers are being more choosy and with deeper pockets are leaving the lesser cars to be bid by the wall.
A lot of lhd stuff with scant service history, recent paint and mileage that doesn't tally with visible water and tear (saw a car that had been totally retrimmed - OTT for a car said to have covered 20k miles....hmmm)Buyers are being more choosy and with deeper pockets are leaving the lesser cars to be bid by the wall.
MDL111 said:
for car lovers / enthusiasts I can see the above if you treat your investments not purely as a financial proposition. But for "normal people" how many other assets do you have to own before you "invest" money in a car, an investment that does not generate income and even worse produces monthly carry costs. I just can't believe that many non car guys sit there thinking it is a good idea to buy a 200k car instead of their first/second rental property/some kind of investment fund etc.
Edit: One addition, I think car guys are using the current market as proof that buying cars is not a pure hobby/ expensive folly. At some point prices will be 50% or 75% of today again and the whole cars as investment talk will become very quiet again (am talking "normalish" cars, not the 7-digit rich people collector cars - no clue what happens to those)
Precisely, the writing is clearly on the wall post Brexit and all I'm thinking of if/when it all tumbles is expanding the property portfolio. Any older Ferrari can easily cost you £10k a year which will negate any supposed increase (which has not been the case for at least six months now anyway).Edit: One addition, I think car guys are using the current market as proof that buying cars is not a pure hobby/ expensive folly. At some point prices will be 50% or 75% of today again and the whole cars as investment talk will become very quiet again (am talking "normalish" cars, not the 7-digit rich people collector cars - no clue what happens to those)
Edited by MDL111 on Thursday 4th August 14:28
Gassing Station | Ferrari Classics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff