F12 Retail vs Trade prices and considerations
Discussion
My first post in this section, I didn't really think I'd ever end up in this position but here we are!
The F12 has been my poster car for years, and I'm now in a position that I can buy and run one as a weekend toy. I currently have a new Vantage, which I managed to bag on a fantastic 2 year deal, however I'm struggling to justify keeping it now the balloon/refinance is due. The heavy anticipated depreciation of this car vs an F12 actually means it's not miles away in terms of finance costs, which is a nice surprise. Due to the returns I've enjoyed from investing throughout the pandemic I'm only interested in financing one, I'd be mad to pull out of my investments and cash buy one of these (apologies if that's as frowned upon here as over in the Aston section!)
What I'm really interested in is the trade in vs retail price, i.e the dealer margin. I would only look to buy from a Ferrari dealer, and I'm looking at cars around £150-170k. Out of interest, I ran a car currently up at £159k through WBAC, who offered £110k. That seems like a huge dealer margin, I was working on an assumption of 10-15%. The reason for asking is I intend to keep it around 2 years, I understand they don't depreciate much but I'll obviously lose the trade/retail spread when I trade it in. WBAC might not be representative for this type of car, so has anyone got any experience in this?
For comparison, although a completely different car, the balloon on my Aston is around £90k and the car is currently worth around £94k (WBAC). So I would effectively get it for trade price if I refinanced and only be exposed to natural depreciation, rather than dealer margin + depreciation.
As for running costs, it should have warranty for at least a year being an approved car (can this be negotiated to 2?), the 7 year servicing will likely have expired and if they eat tyres like my Vantage I'll probably be getting through a set of rears a year, so I'm thinking around £3-4k/year should be reasonable to run it if the dealer takes care of the warranty. Tax/Insurance/Tracker will likely be similar to the vantage so I'm not overly worried about that, nor petrol.
The F12 has been my poster car for years, and I'm now in a position that I can buy and run one as a weekend toy. I currently have a new Vantage, which I managed to bag on a fantastic 2 year deal, however I'm struggling to justify keeping it now the balloon/refinance is due. The heavy anticipated depreciation of this car vs an F12 actually means it's not miles away in terms of finance costs, which is a nice surprise. Due to the returns I've enjoyed from investing throughout the pandemic I'm only interested in financing one, I'd be mad to pull out of my investments and cash buy one of these (apologies if that's as frowned upon here as over in the Aston section!)
What I'm really interested in is the trade in vs retail price, i.e the dealer margin. I would only look to buy from a Ferrari dealer, and I'm looking at cars around £150-170k. Out of interest, I ran a car currently up at £159k through WBAC, who offered £110k. That seems like a huge dealer margin, I was working on an assumption of 10-15%. The reason for asking is I intend to keep it around 2 years, I understand they don't depreciate much but I'll obviously lose the trade/retail spread when I trade it in. WBAC might not be representative for this type of car, so has anyone got any experience in this?
For comparison, although a completely different car, the balloon on my Aston is around £90k and the car is currently worth around £94k (WBAC). So I would effectively get it for trade price if I refinanced and only be exposed to natural depreciation, rather than dealer margin + depreciation.
As for running costs, it should have warranty for at least a year being an approved car (can this be negotiated to 2?), the 7 year servicing will likely have expired and if they eat tyres like my Vantage I'll probably be getting through a set of rears a year, so I'm thinking around £3-4k/year should be reasonable to run it if the dealer takes care of the warranty. Tax/Insurance/Tracker will likely be similar to the vantage so I'm not overly worried about that, nor petrol.
Figure £25k
£170k *should* get you into a 2016 F20. It did in July anyway. This gives you 2 yrs of free servicing via the 7yr original deal.
You have to ask yourself how much will a £150k 2013/4 F12 cost to service, ie a 7/8yr old V12 Ferrari... I personally see that answer as being £2k/yr.
At the end of the day its a V12 Ferrari. Financial figures have *never* made sense on a V12 Ferrari, no man maths in the world have ever made this work. You dont buy one to think about the cost because if you do think about the costs it will be far too bloody scary to ever buy one - you would have to be an idiot!
Obviously I didnt tell my wife this when I was persuading her it was a great idea...
£170k *should* get you into a 2016 F20. It did in July anyway. This gives you 2 yrs of free servicing via the 7yr original deal.
You have to ask yourself how much will a £150k 2013/4 F12 cost to service, ie a 7/8yr old V12 Ferrari... I personally see that answer as being £2k/yr.
At the end of the day its a V12 Ferrari. Financial figures have *never* made sense on a V12 Ferrari, no man maths in the world have ever made this work. You dont buy one to think about the cost because if you do think about the costs it will be far too bloody scary to ever buy one - you would have to be an idiot!
Obviously I didnt tell my wife this when I was persuading her it was a great idea...
DeejRC said:
Figure £25k
£170k *should* get you into a 2016 F20. It did in July anyway. This gives you 2 yrs of free servicing via the 7yr original deal.
You have to ask yourself how much will a £150k 2013/4 F12 cost to service, ie a 7/8yr old V12 Ferrari... I personally see that answer as being £2k/yr.
At the end of the day its a V12 Ferrari. Financial figures have *never* made sense on a V12 Ferrari, no man maths in the world have ever made this work. You dont buy one to think about the cost because if you do think about the costs it will be far too bloody scary to ever buy one - you would have to be an idiot!
Obviously I didnt tell my wife this when I was persuading her it was a great idea...
This £25k spread sounds about right to me. I guess over 2 years you should expect a best case scenario of another £20k depreciation. If financing 2/3rds (example), then another £12-15k interest. I guess the reality is likely to be £60k total cost over 2 years if the selling/trading back in, leaving aside servicing if not in 7 year window. £170k *should* get you into a 2016 F20. It did in July anyway. This gives you 2 yrs of free servicing via the 7yr original deal.
You have to ask yourself how much will a £150k 2013/4 F12 cost to service, ie a 7/8yr old V12 Ferrari... I personally see that answer as being £2k/yr.
At the end of the day its a V12 Ferrari. Financial figures have *never* made sense on a V12 Ferrari, no man maths in the world have ever made this work. You dont buy one to think about the cost because if you do think about the costs it will be far too bloody scary to ever buy one - you would have to be an idiot!
Obviously I didnt tell my wife this when I was persuading her it was a great idea...
Many thanks for the replies, most helpful.
I know it's never going to be sensible or cheap to do, but it's always good to go into it with a rough understanding of what you're going to be on the hook for. £25k seems more reasonable for dealer margin, the bigger gamble is the depreciation as they do seem to have firmed up and I can't see them getting to below £100k or so even at trade price (wishful thinking? the 599 has ended up there).
I'm after rosso with black or crema interior and the diamond turned multispoke/lightweight(?) wheels. After that, I'm not too fussy on spec. Good cars do seem to be creeping up in price, I'd need really £170k to get into a 2016 car from a dealer. I'm also surprised at how much mileage seems to affect price, even knowing how sensitive Ferrari's are to this.
I know it's never going to be sensible or cheap to do, but it's always good to go into it with a rough understanding of what you're going to be on the hook for. £25k seems more reasonable for dealer margin, the bigger gamble is the depreciation as they do seem to have firmed up and I can't see them getting to below £100k or so even at trade price (wishful thinking? the 599 has ended up there).
I'm after rosso with black or crema interior and the diamond turned multispoke/lightweight(?) wheels. After that, I'm not too fussy on spec. Good cars do seem to be creeping up in price, I'd need really £170k to get into a 2016 car from a dealer. I'm also surprised at how much mileage seems to affect price, even knowing how sensitive Ferrari's are to this.
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