Used F12's at dealers

[ajr550]

With F12's being advertised by official dealers this week how long until they are sub £200k ?

[montpellier]

Who knows, FF went down fast, but dealers now reporting improved trading and more new car orders. Mix of economy and probably Ferrari reducing numbers dramatically. F12 may prove similar. Will probably find a level around £200k where buyers will choose 458 or F12. If the new Cali is good, that will call in even more 458 owners. If they manage volumes better, residuals will hold a bit, but never decent. As a habitual V12 buyer, depreciation comes with the territory. Probably more realistic to work on the F12 will be around £100k ish in 10 years time.

[ajr550]

Tend to agree,prices seem to be firming up a bit.Want an F12 but think a 599 for a couple of years and then change is best option.
Anybody got a better plan ?

[slippery]

ajr550 said:

Tend to agree,prices seem to be firming up a bit.Want an F12 but think a 599 for a couple of years and then change is best option.
Anybody got a better plan ?

Souns sensible. The 599 is an epic car, but the F12 is apparently usefully smaller, which may be a consideration for UK roads. I'd like to try a 599 to see quite how big it feels. Lots of them are now the same sort of money as a Lambo LP560-4, which is very compact and potentially an alternative. I know they are totally different cars in many ways, but both are very much on my shortlist.

[GRBF430F1]

slippery said:

Souns sensible. The 599 is an epic car, but the F12 is apparently usefully smaller, which may be a consideration for UK roads. I'd like to try a 599 to see quite how big it feels. Lots of them are now the same sort of money as a Lambo LP560-4, which is very compact and potentially an alternative. I know they are totally different cars in many ways, but both are very much on my shortlist.

Whilst its a superb car I found the 599 to be very big and very heavy TBH. Great GT car but even with the HGTE pack its not really a sports car by any stretch of the imagination even if it is fast.

The Gallardo is far smaller, lighter and more nimble as you would expect from a sports car.

My conclusion was it was more a mature gentlemans car and I'm not quite ready for my pipe and slippers yet.

When I am I think a DBS Volante with 2 + 2 seating might actually appeal more as an alternative.

For the time being I plan to enjoy the LP570-4 Performante which is more shock and awe in comparison

[slippery]

GRBF430F1 said:

Whilst its a superb car I found the 599 to be very big and very heavy TBH. Great GT car but even with the HGTE pack its not really a sports car by any stretch of the imagination even if it is fast.

The Gallardo is far smaller, lighter and more nimble as you would expect from a sports car.

My conclusion was it was more a mature gentlemans car and I'm not quite ready for my pipe and slippers yet.

When I am I think a DBS Volante with 2 + 2 seating might actually appeal more as an alternative.

For the time being I plan to enjoy the LP570-4 Performante which is more shock and awe in comparison

Were you choosing between a 599 and the LP, or did you just happen to drive one? I love the idea of either and I think I would find it hard to choose, although driving them might change all that.

[ajr550]

Thanks for suggestions.Agree about size and nature of 599 but have a 458 Speciale coming in May so not quite ready for pipe and slippers yet!I will probably get rid of my V12 Vanquish for 599 and tried both V12 Vantage and V12 Vantage S to compare with 599.
Want to like Astons more than I do when I drive them.IMHO 599 is best front engined V12 for under 100k.

[slippery]

ajr550 said:

IMHO 599 is best front engined V12 for under 100k.

I think you're right there. The Chris Harris 599 video is well worth a watch if you haven't seen it already.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQdpNoPCd9o

[LukeyLikey]

montpellier said:

Who knows, FF went down fast, but dealers now reporting improved trading and more new car orders. Mix of economy and probably Ferrari reducing numbers dramatically. F12 may prove similar. Will probably find a level around £200k where buyers will choose 458 or F12. If the new Cali is good, that will call in even more 458 owners. If they manage volumes better, residuals will hold a bit, but never decent. As a habitual V12 buyer, depreciation comes with the territory. Probably more realistic to work on the F12 will be around £100k ish in 10 years time.

Saw new Cali in Geneva today - very disappointing. Looks very similar to the old one, just not as sharp or crisply styled. It has lost some of the Cali's edgy and crisp lines and has become a bit more bloated. Californias are great, they just won't look great anymore.

[slippery]

LukeyLikey said:

montpellier said:

Who knows, FF went down fast, but dealers now reporting improved trading and more new car orders. Mix of economy and probably Ferrari reducing numbers dramatically. F12 may prove similar. Will probably find a level around £200k where buyers will choose 458 or F12. If the new Cali is good, that will call in even more 458 owners. If they manage volumes better, residuals will hold a bit, but never decent. As a habitual V12 buyer, depreciation comes with the territory. Probably more realistic to work on the F12 will be around £100k ish in 10 years time.

Saw new Cali in Geneva today - very disappointing. Looks very similar to the old one, just not as sharp or crisply styled. It has lost some of the Cali's edgy and crisp lines and has become a bit more bloated. Californias are great, they just won't look great anymore.

Your opinion of the new Cali is totally at odds with most. I'm not saying you're wrong of course, as it's purely your opinion, but I think I would look at one now and wouldn't have done previously.

[F355GTS]

GRBF430F1 said:

its not really a sports car by any stretch of the imagination even if it is fast.

Hmm, you didn't spend long in one did you. Having done over 20k miles in 599's both std and HGTE's believe me they are very much a capable sports car with the added advantage of being usable as a GT

[ajr550]

Thanks.I know it has been covered before but IYO HGTE or standard car leaving aside cost considerations ?

[GusB]

F355GTS said:

GRBF430F1 said:

its not really a sports car by any stretch of the imagination even if it is fast.

Hmm, you didn't spend long in one did you. Having done over 20k miles in 599's both std and HGTE's believe me they are very much a capable sports car with the added advantage of being usable as a GT

I agree, they are very sporting and have the added benefit of being liked by other road users and the public in general because they are not trying too hard.

I personally prefer the HGTE, however personal choice

[slippery]

I think the 599 manages to look stunning and special, without appearing too flashy, which is a difficult thing to pull off.

[GRBF430F1]

slippery said:

Were you choosing between a 599 and the LP, or did you just happen to drive one? I love the idea of either and I think I would find it hard to choose, although driving them might change all that.

The 599 was on my list of cars to consider whereas the LP wasn't at the time. It was a process of elimination, many miles and many test drives that brought me to the LP570-4 Performante

[slippery]

They are all clearly great cars and the choice is down to the individual and their own tastes I guess. I look forward to finding out which I prefer!

[LukeyLikey]

slippery said:

Your opinion of the new Cali is totally at odds with most. I'm not saying you're wrong of course, as it's purely your opinion, but I think I would look at one now and wouldn't have done previously.

This picture shows what I mean - the mass above front and rear wheels seems to have increased and the lines are not sharp and sinewy but kind of 'puffed up'. It makes the car look overly long and underwheeled.

You're right though, looks are subjective. I liked the previous Cali enough to buy one though. Partly because I always thought it looked better in the flesh than in pictures. My impression was that the new one doesn't make you think "wow! that looks better than I thought it would".

[montpellier]

slippery said:

Souns sensible. The 599 is an epic car, but the F12 is apparently usefully smaller, which may be a consideration for UK roads. I'd like to try a 599 to see quite how big it feels. Lots of them are now the same sort of money as a Lambo LP560-4, which is very compact and potentially an alternative. I know they are totally different cars in many ways, but both are very much on my shortlist.

I never had an issue with the 599 size, actually the width of the 458 tended to worry me more. If your other car if something like a Range Rover you will wonder what the fuss is about. In any case not sure anyone would be comparing a mid engined car to a 599. It is mad fast, much more so than the numbers suggest as it goes on and on. Of course it is not an out and out sports car, but the person who suggested it is "not a sports car by any stretch of the imagination" does not know what they are talking about. 599 still gets amazing positive responses, and is a car a female will be seen in. Lambo great car but well past sell by date. Huracan a big step forward in driving experience, though not in performance. If you never had a Lambo Gallardo go for it, loads of them about, numerous special editions with added parts, great value, reliable, and still looks good. 599 is for when you don't need to shout about it. So different cars it is impossible to compare. 599 interior fantastic though, must have been last of the cars Ferrari made with leather pre Poltrona Frau , lots of carbon too. You would be pleased with either.

[MogulBoy]

LukeyLikey said:

This picture shows what I mean.

I am 100% with you on this, but I am increasingly of the opinion that looking at cars under the harsh lighting of a motor show doesn't give you much ideas about how a car will look in the wild/outside.

I thought that the Cali T press launch images showed great promise but I came away from geneva really disappointed in the two that I saw on display there but I accept the limitations of the show environment.

P.s. It's not just the cars that can look a bit off under these lights. Most of the time the hostesses are let down by bad
lighting too!

[Bluebottle911]

ajr550 said:

Want to like Astons more than I do when I drive them.

That says it all, really. The Aston name, with all its glamour, history, Britishness, etc. has a wonderful cachet, but the cars have never quite lived up to the image. From a very early age, I aspired to Aston ownership, but when, in my mid-20s, I managed to borrow one for a fortnight, I was so underwhelmed that I have never seriously considered buying one since.