FF prices

[21ATS]

If it's less than three months the dealer you bought it from has little choice, he's required to help.

Report the issue to them and ask how they wish to proceed. I'd assume diagnosis would be the next step.

[Frankychops]

ensignia said:

I'm 7 weeks into FF ownership and think I've started to run into PTU issues unfortunately...

The car is saying "Mannetino failure", "Low ATF fluid pressure", "4WD system failure" and going into Wet mode after a few minutes of driving.

I hadn't driven it for around 4 days and at first I thought it was one of those Italian quirks and didn't pay too much attention thinking it would go away after a restart, but nope, the warnings remain.

I usually keep the car parked up during the week and only drive it every 3 or 4 days at the moment so it could be battery related but I'm not hopeful, although the voltmeter doesn't seem that stable so maybe the battery isn't up to it. It was hovering pretty close to 13.2v when starting off but went up to 13.4v when driving and 13.8v when cruising, which I think is within normal range but wasn't expecting that much variation. When I switched the car off and restarted a few minutes later it was just over 13v again before climbing up slightly which migh indicate a battery which isn't holding charge as well as it should?

Dealer I bought from claimed it was a recent battery, but I haven't checked. I might try a new battery but I'm preparing myself for a PTU failure.

I'm pretty sure the dealer I bought from will be of no help but will give them a call as I only bought in June and have already experienced an engine control system failure warning and now this.

Car is an early model with 50k miles so a prime candidate for PTU problems...

Thats not a bad battery by the readings.

[NRG1976]

ensignia said:

I'm 7 weeks into FF ownership and think I've started to run into PTU issues unfortunately...

The car is saying "Mannetino failure", "Low ATF fluid pressure", "4WD system failure" and going into Wet mode after a few minutes of driving.

I hadn't driven it for around 4 days and at first I thought it was one of those Italian quirks and didn't pay too much attention thinking it would go away after a restart, but nope, the warnings remain.

I usually keep the car parked up during the week and only drive it every 3 or 4 days at the moment so it could be battery related but I'm not hopeful, although the voltmeter doesn't seem that stable so maybe the battery isn't up to it. It was hovering pretty close to 13.2v when starting off but went up to 13.4v when driving and 13.8v when cruising, which I think is within normal range but wasn't expecting that much variation. When I switched the car off and restarted a few minutes later it was just over 13v again before climbing up slightly which migh indicate a battery which isn't holding charge as well as it should?

Dealer I bought from claimed it was a recent battery, but I haven't checked. I might try a new battery but I'm preparing myself for a PTU failure.

I'm pretty sure the dealer I bought from will be of no help but will give them a call as I only bought in June and have already experienced an engine control system failure warning and now this.

Car is an early model with 50k miles so a prime candidate for PTU problems...

Sounds like the PTU - if you bought from a dealer they should take care of this for you. However if you bought from some indy / private outfit, then it could get messy. You can get it all repaired for around £10k nowadays, so not the end of the world if they don’t support you, but legally they should be!

[ANOpax]

Frankychops said:

Thats not a bad battery by the readings.

Not on the face of it but batteries can read a decent voltage but fail to supply enough current and when that happens, the voltage drop is sharp enough and quick enough to send all the ECUs into spasm.

A CCA test is required.

Edited by ANOpax on Saturday 22 July 21:41

[Kettmark]

Let us know what the selling dealer says when you touch base with them.

[ensignia]

Thanks for responses.

I did a fair amount of research before buying and it seems it's a case of when the PTU goes and not if, so was fully expecting to replace it at some point.

I'll contact the garage I bought it from (they're independent but have high end stock for the most part), but figure this is going to get awkward.

In terms of driving the car, it seemed completely normal minus the warnings and being in Wet mode but I guess it should be laid up until I can get it looked at properly?

Also, just to eliminate the battery what do people recommend as the best replacement. It's been chucking it down with rain today so didn't get a chance to go and check what's in there now, but for the sake of £200 or so it might be worth seeing if that fixes it? My Maserati did a similar thing despite a 12 month old Varta battery.

[ANOpax]

Varta silver AGM is what you need.

Also check for worn/leaking hoses.
Some PTU ‘failures’ have turned out to be failed hoses.

[ensignia]

ANOpax said:

Varta silver AGM is what you need.

Also check for worn/leaking hoses.
Some PTU ‘failures’ have turned out to be failed hoses.

At its last service (May 2023) it had a hose replaced for the ATF fluid, which is the same hose you're talking about I presume?

I don't have the paperwork to hand but will grab it tomorrow and double check.

Also going to have a conversation with SS Autotech and see what their availability is like.

[NRG1976]

dwrights said:

Not good news but like you said in an earlier post you was expecting this. I can remember chatting to the last private owner who had it advertised on AT and he said that he did have 4WD warnings but they went away when the oil levels was topped up. I decided not to pursue the car because of this and thanked him for his honesty.

Prators then purchased the car from him and advertised it on AT. When I spoke to Prators and asked if the PTU had been replaced they said it didn't need doing because Knight Racer's garage had replaced a leaking hose. I again didn't pursue the car because it was now advertised for considerably more money and the PTU was still an unknown quantity. Prators probably thought that the hose replacement had fixed the problem.

The FF I actually ending up buying was from a Ferrari dealer which came with a two year warranty but the car did cost me £125k. Considering your purchase price , guessing it was around the £80k? You have plenty of wiggle room to make the car right and sort out the PTU once and for all.

Such a lot of car at that price level. Don't be disheartened. :-)

That’s genuinely a really nice and thoughtful post (last para) - we need more people like you


Also, if it is the garage stated they say the below:
[i]CARS SOLD WITH A WARRANTY
WILL BE FOR ENGINE AND GEARBOX ONLY WITH A MAXIMUM WARRANTY OF 3 MONTHS OR 2000 MILES THE VEHICLE IS TO BE DELIVERED BACK TO THE PREMISES IT WAS BOUGHT FROM FOR REPAIR AT THE BUYER'S EXPENSE[/i]

Edited by NRG1976 on Sunday 23 July 20:12

[ensignia]

dwrights said:

Not good news but like you said in an earlier post you was expecting this. I can remember chatting to the last private owner who had it advertised on AT and he said that he did have 4WD warnings but they went away when the oil levels was topped up. I decided not to pursue the car because of this and thanked him for his honesty.

Prators then purchased the car from him and advertised it on AT. When I spoke to Prators and asked if the PTU had been replaced they said it didn't need doing because Knight Racer's garage had replaced a leaking hose. I again didn't pursue the car because it was now advertised for considerably more money and the PTU was still an unknown quantity. Prators probably thought that the hose replacement had fixed the problem.

The FF I actually ending up buying was from a Ferrari dealer which came with a two year warranty but the car did cost me £125k. Considering your purchase price , guessing it was around the £80k? You have plenty of wiggle room to make the car right and sort out the PTU once and for all.

Such a lot of car at that price level. Don't be disheartened. :-)

Thanks for the info and yeah that's the car. I asked Praters about the PTU and they mentioned the hose replacement from Knight Racer's too, but it's only a temporary fix it would seem.

I was 99% sure it was the PTU at fault and not a battery issue before I'd even read this post, but this has removed any doubt! Will speak to Simon Furlonger/Parkes Performance tomorrow and also Praters but not hopeful of getting anything from them.

And yeah, I was fully expecting this at some point, just a shame it's happened so soon! Did you manage to glean any more info from the private seller? I understand it was quite a well to do chap in London...

NRG1976 said:

That’s genuinely a really nice and thoughtful post (last para) - we need more people like you


Also, if it is the garage stated they say the below:
[i]CARS SOLD WITH A WARRANTY
WILL BE FOR ENGINE AND GEARBOX ONLY WITH A MAXIMUM WARRANTY OF 3 MONTHS OR 2000 MILES THE VEHICLE IS TO BE DELIVERED BACK TO THE PREMISES IT WAS BOUGHT FROM FOR REPAIR AT THE BUYER'S EXPENSE[/i]

I saw this, and although I'm well within 2000 miles and 3 months, it seems like they're saying the warranty is basically them fixing your car but you pay, so not a warranty then?!

[NRG1976]

ensignia said:

I saw this, and although I'm well within 2000 miles and 3 months, it seems like they're saying the warranty is basically them fixing your car but you pay, so not a warranty then?!

No, I think they are saying you pay to deliver the car back to their workshop. They will then fix it for free in line with the warranty.

Effectively they will repair your car under warranty but will not pick up the recovery costs back to their workshop.

[ensignia]

Ah yes, that makes more sense.

Either way I'll update the thread tomorrow once I get in touch with them.

Does anyone know how to check/top up the PTU fluid? I don't have access to the manual at the moment.


Also, is this normal voltage for a battery seconds after being started?



After about a minute it goes to a more normal level:

Edited by ensignia on Monday 24th July 00:42

[ensignia]

Odd. Mine never really gets close to 14v even at startup.

I'm literally removing the engine bay cover now to visually inspect the PTU fluid tanks. As I understand it, the top tank is just a filler so should be empty but the bottom tank should be at the minimum level at the very least.

There don't seem to be any leaks or seepage of fluid underneath the car so if the PTU fluid levels have dropped it'll be because of the seals inside the PTU not doing their job properly. I can't imagine the recently repaired hose has failed again, so the culprit is probably the actual PTU itself.

[NRG1976]

ensignia said:

Odd. Mine never really gets close to 14v even at startup.

I'm literally removing the engine bay cover now to visually inspect the PTU fluid tanks. As I understand it, the top tank is just a filler so should be empty but the bottom tank should be at the minimum level at the very least.

There don't seem to be any leaks or seepage of fluid underneath the car so if the PTU fluid levels have dropped it'll be because of the seals inside the PTU not doing their job properly. I can't imagine the recently repaired hose has failed again, so the culprit is probably the actual PTU itself.

Your temp says 55 degrees - I’m assuming it wasn’t a cold engine start?

[ensignia]

NRG1976 said:

ensignia said:

Odd. Mine never really gets close to 14v even at startup.

I'm literally removing the engine bay cover now to visually inspect the PTU fluid tanks. As I understand it, the top tank is just a filler so should be empty but the bottom tank should be at the minimum level at the very least.

There don't seem to be any leaks or seepage of fluid underneath the car so if the PTU fluid levels have dropped it'll be because of the seals inside the PTU not doing their job properly. I can't imagine the recently repaired hose has failed again, so the culprit is probably the actual PTU itself.

Your temp says 55 degrees - I’m assuming it wasn’t a cold engine start?

I thought it was, but it might actually have been driven earlier that day.

So I checked the PTU fluid visually (a few of the plastic cover screws were rounded off so couldn't remove), and there does seem to be a small amount of fluid in the lower tank so not completely empty, but couldn't see whether it met the minimum mark.

Also, the battery that was put in is a Napa - a brand which I've never heard of tbh. If it didn't look like such a PITA to change I'd have done it just for peace of mind.

[NRG1976]

ensignia said:

NRG1976 said:

ensignia said:

Odd. Mine never really gets close to 14v even at startup.

I'm literally removing the engine bay cover now to visually inspect the PTU fluid tanks. As I understand it, the top tank is just a filler so should be empty but the bottom tank should be at the minimum level at the very least.

There don't seem to be any leaks or seepage of fluid underneath the car so if the PTU fluid levels have dropped it'll be because of the seals inside the PTU not doing their job properly. I can't imagine the recently repaired hose has failed again, so the culprit is probably the actual PTU itself.

Your temp says 55 degrees - I’m assuming it wasn’t a cold engine start?

I thought it was, but it might actually have been driven earlier that day.

So I checked the PTU fluid visually (a few of the plastic cover screws were rounded off so couldn't remove), and there does seem to be a small amount of fluid in the lower tank so not completely empty, but couldn't see whether it met the minimum mark.

Also, the battery that was put in is a Napa - a brand which I've never heard of tbh. If it didn't look like such a PITA to change I'd have done it just for peace of mind.

It does like a pain, but might be worth going through the hassle of the change just to rule it out…

https://youtu.be/-7FLHbsTkzs

[pancholi]

can i ask about your oil pressure reading.
what pressure does it settle down to when cold and hot?
thanks

[belfry]

NRG1976 said:

Your temp says 55 degrees - I’m assuming it wasn’t a cold engine start?

Wow that is super hot for the Outside temperature. Where are you located to have 55 degrees Centigrade as the outside temp?

[21ATS]

belfry said:

NRG1976 said:

Your temp says 55 degrees - I’m assuming it wasn’t a cold engine start?

Wow that is super hot for the Outside temperature. Where are you located to have 55 degrees Centigrade as the outside temp?

I did wonder that when looking at the image.

It's now got me wondering if you have an electrical gremlin somehwere. Assuming you weren't parked in Death Valley when you took that image....

I fitted a Bosch AGM in my FF earlier this month. Battery is great. The single handle design isn't, don't get the bosch, it took me 5 hours to remove the old one and refit as it didn't have twin handles like the OEM battery. Lots of scraped knuckles and forearms later I did eventually wiggle it in.

I'm pretty sure any 019 AGM battery will be fine. For things like this I tend to go with a brand I recognise.

[ensignia]

21ATS said:

belfry said:

NRG1976 said:

Your temp says 55 degrees - I’m assuming it wasn’t a cold engine start?

Wow that is super hot for the Outside temperature. Where are you located to have 55 degrees Centigrade as the outside temp?

I did wonder that when looking at the image.

It's now got me wondering if you have an electrical gremlin somehwere. Assuming you weren't parked in Death Valley when you took that image....

I fitted a Bosch AGM in my FF earlier this month. Battery is great. The single handle design isn't, don't get the bosch, it took me 5 hours to remove the old one and refit as it didn't have twin handles like the OEM battery. Lots of scraped knuckles and forearms later I did eventually wiggle it in.

I'm pretty sure any 019 AGM battery will be fine. For things like this I tend to go with a brand I recognise.

Is that meant to be the outside temperature?! I had wondered what that was referring to and why there wasn't an ambient temp anywhere... That's obviously not correct; I'm in Hertfordshire.

I managed to top up the PTU fluid reservoir with 250ml and the warnings are gone (temporarily I suppose) and it's back to its usual self, but obviously the underlying issue of the PTU itself needs to be addressed.